TT Hunting

xsmi

I used Deoxit on the inside of the player and while I was inside I also decided to use a little WD40 on the motor's moving parts. Good move? It's home drying right now. I don't have internet at my new place yet so I have to go down to the coal coffee shop to surf. (EXPENSIVE)

xsmi

PolkieMan wrote: »

http://uturnaudio.com/

Polkieman, I've seen these. I like them. We'll see what happens.

xsmi

Keiko,

On my Yaqin integrated, I do not have a phono pre. On my Yamaha Receiver, I do. My MOST critical listening will be done with the Yaqin so having the phono pre built in has always been a plus to me. Most guys here have told me (understandably) that this feature hampers the table. But I was thinking. On my sony you can turn the built in pre-amp on and off. If you have a built in pre and want to upgrade later, can you just turn the built-in pre off and use the outboard pre instead? Would the added electronics degrade the sound that much? I know I bring up the pro-ject debut table a lot but there is a model with a built in pre for $100 more than the standard. I have not heard which of their outboard press this unit is based on, but if it's the Phono Box S, that would be an attractive route to go would it not?

PolkieMan

The next version will have a CUE Lever I heard

xsmi wrote: »

Polkieman, I've seen these. I like them. We'll see what happens.

xsmi

Well, I fixed the old one. I listened to two lp's and two 45's. The speed was steady. I do plan to update it some day but now I've got a little more time.

leftwinger57

Am I living in the past? I just heard a single mention of any model Dual tt. One asked about a 701 and I'll post a poll taken of Dual owners to see where it ranks. I can't stand my entry level Denon DP-11F even w/ the new Grado Black cart. If a reasonbly priced Dual 1225/29 or 701 comes up on C/L I'm going for it I think. I know the rap on some Duals they can be noisey but when lubed and tracking right and that beveled United Audio base is just something that always was attractive to me.

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=27341

Msabot1

The Dual 1229 in its day was one of the finest offered in its price range...I still have mine,not my main table,but will still perform if called upon to do so...

toucanet

I enjoy my Dual 701. My father bought it new back in the 1970's. I took it from his home and kept it packed in a box for decades. I unpacked it last year and sent it to a company named "Fix My Dual" in Des Moines, IA to have it serviced. The website for the vendor is www.fixmydual.com; Bill Neumann is the owner. they did a great job with refurbishing the TT.

I have my 701 connected to the following equipment:
Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamplifier
Rogue Audio Hera II Preamplifier
Rogue Audio Apollo Monoblocks
Wilson Audio Sasha Loudspeakers
My IC's and speaker cables are all Wireworld products. I previously used all MIT cables.

My TT is very quiet with no motor noise, vibration humming or any other noise except the occasional snap, crackle and pop from old vinyl that needs to be cleaned.

I am very satisfied with my Dual 701. I have listened to other TT's connected to my system but decided to stay with my Dual 701.

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Am I living in the past? I just heard a single mention of any model Dual tt. One asked about a 701 and I'll post a poll taken of Dual owners to see where it ranks. I can't stand my entry level Denon DP-11F even w/ the new Grado Black cart. If a reasonbly priced Dual 1225/29 or 701 comes up on C/L I'm going for it I think. I know the rap on some Duals they can be noisey but when lubed and tracking right and that beveled United Audio base is just something that always was attractive to me.

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=27341

leftwinger57

That's great news to hear the old Duals are still working and being used. Hey guys not to get off topic what is the deal of a P-mount cartridge? I was looking at another Denon model different than mine and I almost grabbed it but then I saw that my new Grado Black would not work w/ this P-mount set up. Is this a proprietary thing, how common are they and is there any device or adapter that could change and make it work w/ what I call the standard mount cartridge w/ the minibolts and nuts.

Jhayman

I believe P-Mount is when the whole head shell and cart plug into the tone arm..
It's a one piece offering.

Jhayman

xsmi..
I use the Phono Box S now and it's a very good phono pre amp much better than a built in one..
I too have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and a SL-1200MK2 and a SL-1700Mk2 when I first started looking a TT's over a yr ago I almost bought the AT-120 AND AT-1240 but before I pulled the trigger I found my SL-1200 and bought the Carbon instead going back to the audio store now they have both AT's on display and now when I look at them and touch them they feel really cheaply made compared to the Technics TT's..
Now my main table is my SL-1200 with a Ortofon 2M Black cart and it sounds Amazing..

xsmi wrote: »

Keiko,

On my Yaqin integrated, I do not have a phono pre. On my Yamaha Receiver, I do. My MOST critical listening will be done with the Yaqin so having the phono pre built in has always been a plus to me. Most guys here have told me (understandably) that this feature hampers the table. But I was thinking. On my sony you can turn the built in pre-amp on and off. If you have a built in pre and want to upgrade later, can you just turn the built-in pre off and use the outboard pre instead? Would the added electronics degrade the sound that much? I know I bring up the pro-ject debut table a lot but there is a model with a built in pre for $100 more than the standard. I have not heard which of their outboard press this unit is based on, but if it's the Phono Box S, that would be an attractive route to go would it not?

dromunds

I have an old P-mount Denon DP7f that is going to friend, and its a pretty good table actually for entry level, probably made in the very late 1980's, I got it from a buddy a number of years ago when he sold his record collection, mounted with a P-mount Shure 110HE (hypereliptical) cartridge. When I got the TT, I was actually rather surprised how good that cart sounded. The P-mount means you take out a screw on the side of the cart and the whole thing pulls out of the arm, and when you re-insert the cart there are four I believe little plugs on the end that insert into the arm and the whole thing is secured in place by the small screw on the side. Its a very convenient system but the choices of P-mount cartridges are very limited. I lucked out, the Shure 110HE is discontinued, but I got a new stylus for a Shure M97xe which slid right into the 110HE cart body, so the table is now good to go again. That all being said, the standard mount carts are the way to go. You don't want to limit yourself on the choice of cartridges.

leftwinger57

Dromunds,not to drag this on but the DP-7F was the exact tt I looked at yesterday.It was all black plastic and as entryish as my DP-11f is that had to be a step down for sure. Thanks for info on the P-mounts,not for me. I'm hoping a guy will give me 1st crack on the Dual 1225 he's working on bringing it back. I've bought from him before and he's the guy who has those AVS speakers that I thought were as big as smart cars and is an electrical engineer by trade so when he does work he clearly states what upgrades he did.

Mike Reeter

toucanet wrote: »

I enjoy my Dual 701. My father bought it new back in the 1970's. I took it from his home and kept it packed in a box for decades. I unpacked it last year and sent it to a company named "Fix My Dual" in Des Moines, IA to have it serviced. The website for the vendor is www.fixmydual.com; Bill Neumann is the owner. they did a great job with refurbishing the TT.

I have my 701 connected to the following equipment:
Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamplifier
Rogue Audio Hera II Preamplifier
Rogue Audio Apollo Monoblocks
Wilson Audio Sasha Loudspeakers
My IC's and speaker cables are all Wireworld products. I previously used all MIT cables.

My TT is very quiet with no motor noise, vibration humming or any other noise except the occasional snap, crackle and pop from old vinyl that needs to be cleaned.

I am very satisfied with my Dual 701. I have listened to other TT's connected to my system but decided to stay with my Dual 701.

Very, very nice set-up you have. I would love to have a listen! I'm trying to save enough coin to purchase a Rogue Ares one day, hopefully sooner than later.

Sorry for the derail, back to the business at hand.

dromunds

Not sure about DP-7f versus DP11f. The DP7f was a fully automatic direct drive table and I always understood the DP11f was belt drive so I assume they are completey different. All I know is the DP7f with the Shure 110HE cartridge sounded pretty good for an entry level tt, but that's what it is, entry level. I had no issues except the arm would every once in a while drop at the very edge of the record and not make the first groove, which I overcame by manually lifting the tonearm and dropping it manually. I've seen some bad reviews of the DP11f, but I'm personally not familiar with it, nor with differences between it and the DP7f, don't even know when they started making the DP11f. My everyday player is a Denon DP72L, and that is a first-rate TT. I bought it used without an arm and put a Grace 707 arm on it. There is a lot of difference between the entry level and the upper level Denon tables, however the upper level Denons now bring a lot of money. But my own personal experience with the DP7f was not unpleasant at all, I used for a number of years. Maybe it had something to do with the cartridge, I don't know. The Shure 110HE was a good cart for the money, Shure made good hyperellyptical cartridges. Other considerations may be whether the tracking force is set correctly, etc. Lots of guys on this forum have upper level Denons and are very happy with them, the DP59L, DP62L, etc. I guess my point on your thread was that although I had good sound with my P-mount Shure cartridge and even was lucky in getting a current stylus to fit in the existing out-of-production cart, that I wouldn't recommend P-mounts. I can also tell you that my college roommate bought a new Dual 1229, which was extremely popular back in the day. He told me recently it was one of his favorite turntables he ever had. Now, I don't know what, if anything a forty year old TT would require as far as repairs, upgrades, etc., such as is the wiring in the arm still up to snuff after all those years, bearings, motor, etc, but I do see the previous post regarding Fix My Dual. I also know a different friend who just recently picked up a used Music Hall TT that worked out real good for not a lot of dough, but that's a totally manual unit, as are most all current TTs it seems. There's lots of options. Best of luck to you.

cmy330go

xsmi wrote: »

...My MOST critical listening...

I'm sorry, but that Sony, and the Denon that you were looking at, really aren't up to the challenge of any critical listening. Do not get hung up on the phono preamp. There are standalone phono pres that can be had for as little as $30 to $50 that are going to be superior to what's built into those cheap plastic tables. Seriously, hold out, and do it right. It will be worth it in the long haul.

cmy330go

Just one example of a really decent phono preamp for under $50.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=155434&Q=&is=REG&A=details

I actually use one of these while testing tables I'm repairing.

SCompRacer

xsmi wrote: »

I used Deoxit on the inside of the player and while I was inside I also decided to use a little WD40 on the motor's moving parts. Good move? It's home drying right now.

WD40 isn't really designed to be a motor bearing lubricant. Better off to check mfr recommendations. Looser tolerances will usually require heavier oil. Older Rega's bearings used sae90w. Sewing machine oil is good to use at around 5w, or 3 in 1 blue (~20w) but don't use the 3 in 1 red.

leftwinger57

Dromonds, the DP-11f is also direct drive w/ a standard mount headshell. I think they might be a few years newer, I can't see them making basically the same tt w/ only the cart issue and minor cosmetic things the same year when all the features are the same. Now as for the 7f I guess the one I saw was not cleaned up, the cartridge had no stylus which the guy changed out and I noticed the whole P-mount deal. If you found that tt to your likeing whosed to say no. It just turned me off ,maybe because I just bought a brand new Grado and it wouldn't work and then the guy wouldn't budge on his price for a very limited tt so I said no. I found a review of my 11f and not surprising it's not all that glorious.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1082087753

dromunds

Leftwinger: I wasn't suggesting either of those entry level Denons. The one I got from my buddy was in immaculate condition, it came with his album collection, and it worked well for me at that time as I was getting back into vinyl, but it came with a good cart too. You should move up from there. My initial post was simply a long-winded suggestion to avoid P-mounts because you're very limited in cart selection. When you see used DP7f's ( or any entry level Denon) now, they are usually like the one you saw, generally beat up and cheap azz cart with a bad or missing stylus. I will tell you though that a buddy once brought over his Thorens TD-160 with a mid-level cartridge, and it didn't sound heads and tails better than the DP7f with the Shure hyperellyptical. If you know an electrical engineer who's refabbing a Dual, it may be worth a good audition if its reasonably priced. Not familiar with the 1225 but I know the 1229 was a very fine table (with a nice cart,) and automatic to boot. And nice looking.

spotty

Personally I would spend the extra cash over and abover the Denon table and go for the much better sounding Project Debut Carbon turntable - it has a great quality Ortofon 2M red cartridge pre-fitted which sounds nice.

leftwinger57

At $300 English pounds or what ever the U.S equivilant is to much I can afford to spend whether new or not. A refurbed Dual between $60/$100 is where I will go.I have the cart already so it might lessen the price also. Thanks for the suggestion just to rich for me. I sent the guy a letter asking ,no begging him to let me have 1st dibs on the Dual when he gets done w/ the refurb.I did buy from him before and he gave his card so I didn't think it was out of line to do.We'll see.

dromunds

That seems like a no-brainer if you can get a refurbed Dual at that price. Hope you get it.

xsmi

SCompRacer wrote: »

WD40 isn't really designed to be a motor bearing lubricant. Better off to check mfr recommendations. Looser tolerances will usually require heavier oil. Older Rega's bearings used sae90w. Sewing machine oil is good to use at around 5w, or 3 in 1 blue (~20w) but don't use the 3 in 1 red.

I found that out. After listening to a couple of albums and letting the TT sit for two days, I'm starting to have the speed issues again. It plays along fine for a while then seems to almost stop then rev up again. Frustrating.

xsmi

What do you guys think of this?

http://toledo.craigslist.org/ele/4274134663.html

xsmi

cmy330go wrote: »

Just one example of a really decent phono preamp for under $50.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=155434&Q=&is=REG&A=details

I actually use one of these while testing tables I'm repairing.

I expected to have to spend $2-300 to get a decent pre.

xsmi

toucanet wrote: »

I enjoy my Dual 701. My father bought it new back in the 1970's. I took it from his home and kept it packed in a box for decades. I unpacked it last year and sent it to a company named "Fix My Dual" in Des Moines, IA to have it serviced. The website for the vendor is www.fixmydual.com; Bill Neumann is the owner. they did a great job with refurbishing the TT.

I have my 701 connected to the following equipment:
Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamplifier
Rogue Audio Hera II Preamplifier
Rogue Audio Apollo Monoblocks
Wilson Audio Sasha Loudspeakers
My IC's and speaker cables are all Wireworld products. I previously used all MIT cables.

My TT is very quiet with no motor noise, vibration humming or any other noise except the occasional snap, crackle and pop from old vinyl that needs to be cleaned.

I am very satisfied with my Dual 701. I have listened to other TT's connected to my system but decided to stay with my Dual 701.

On Tuesday Feb 25th Paragon Sight and Sound is going to have an open house where they will feature the Sasha 2's. I'm thinking of going to check those out.

Hofy

xsmi wrote: »

I expected to have to spend $2-300 to get a decent pre.

Nope. As posted above you can get a basic pre for under $50 to get you liberated from the built in crapola. This will let you spend more on a decent TT. Then in the future you can upgrade the pre if you feel the need. Trust me, the $50 pre and a good TT will sound so much better than the Sony you have now that you will wonder why you waited so long.

xsmi

Wow, this is an old thread. But, My Debut Carbon will be here Thursday and money is tight! of those $100 or less phone pre-amps out there, which one is the best until I can get something better?

Obsession18

ART DJ Pre 2:

http://www.amazon.com/ART-II-Preamplifier-Output-Switchable/dp/B000AJR482

I used this little unit before upgrading to my current phono pre, I was quite impressed with it for $49.