Life with SRS's; update
drumiv
Posts: 171
Well, incase anyone is interested, here's an update to my quest for the perfect match for power to the SDA's. Originaly they were hooked up to my SX1980, and were stunning! However, they put it into protection, so the quest was on for seperates. The Soundcraftmen didn't impress. The 1980 is a hard act to follow, believe it or not. It was a money-is-no-object total restore($3500.00,+ a set of JBL 100'S). It is tuely one of a kind. Anyway, first up was the MA 5002/APT Holman combo. Both recapped/updated by the same tech who did the 1980. Like I said not impressed with 5002, so up for sale. Next, found a Parasound 2200II; LOVE IT! Then I got my Carver M-4.0t back(same deal, recap/update), so we hooked it up to the bottom end, and the 2200 to the top end. Very good sound, although the Carver, putting out more power, made the base a little more forward, but still awsome. No biggy, my tech was just going to match gains, I believe. So then I thought, what the h..., lets hook just the 4.0 up, bi-wired. It sounds realy nice.It's a different sound, but very easy to listen to. I don't have any experiance with tubes, but this supposed to be a copy of a good tube amp. What to do. Match gains, or sell, and get another Parasound. I'm leaning toward the later. I like having this problem.
Post edited by drumiv on
Comments
-
Chasing the ultimate amp for the big polks is lots of fun for sure. It surprises me that you don't like the 5002 on your SRS's. I had one driving my CRS's and it was a nice sounding match up.
-
It's possible I didn't give it enough time, it's still "green". Actually, I have it hooked up to a set of KLH Fives, through a Sony pre, and it does sound awfully good.
-
I don't have any experiance with tubes, but this supposed to be a copy of a good tube amp.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it's not even close to the sound of a tube amp. All Carver did was add a 1.5 ohm high watt resistor just before the outputs.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F1nut; that's OK, I guess I'll have to check one out, and see what the fuss is. It sounds good, very easy to listen to. I'm surprised he(carver) never got sued over his claim, if that's the case.
-
Read the original Stereophile/Bob Carver challenge: http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challengeF1nut; that's OK, I guess I'll have to check one out, and see what the fuss is. It sounds good, very easy to listen to. I'm surprised he(carver) never got sued over his claim, if that's the case.
He won the bet, but it couldn't be duplicated on a mass production basis.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
I'm surprised he(carver) never got sued over his claim, if that's the case.
What would be the damages for that litigious person? -
I don't think you could get damages out of it, but someone with nothing better to do, and loads of money, could get him to retract his statement. I did read the article about the challenge, I didn't realise it was about the 4.0t. Stereophile did give it rave reveiws though. All I know is it sounds awfull nice, tube duplication or not. Good for Bob Carver.
-
I don't now how much luck you would have with this , being it is going on 30 years later and the company is no longer in business...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I think you got me wrong, there, nsj, I have no such thoughts about law suites. I'm very happy with his product, and my tech's revision/ improvement of it.
-
Hmmm I wonder how it would sound if you were to shunt the resistors?
Nonetheless a good read about making one amp cheaper sound like an expensive one.I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it's not even close to the sound of a tube amp. All Carver did was add a 1.5 ohm high watt resistor just before the outputs.POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1 -
I think you got me wrong, there, nsj, I have no such thoughts about law suites. I'm very happy with his product, and my tech's revision/ improvement of it.
I knew that... Be glad when we get the smilies backThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Hmmm I wonder how it would sound if you were to shunt the resistors?
Nonetheless a good read about making one amp cheaper sound like an expensive one.
Just to be clear, the 1.5 ohm resistor was added to the production models. I have no idea what he did for the Stereophile challenge other than he had to keep tweaking the amp the entire time because it was completely unstable.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Just to be clear, the 1.5 ohm resistor was added to the production models. I have no idea what he did for the Stereophile challenge other than he had to keep tweaking the amp the entire time because it was completely unstable.
Hence the need for an overabundant and unreported supply of fire extinguishers. It is my understanding that the amp went supernova shortly after the amp got back to Lynwood. Bob's amp, for a very brief moment achieved a fusion reaction before the magic smoke left the amp.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
DSkip; I would love to check tube gear, I'm just afraid that it will take me down another maddening road. Most of my present gear is from a dael I made (from another CP member), so I'm just playing the hand I was dealt. My tech said I'd have to pay alot more to do better. On carpenters wages, I can't do TOTL. Tubes are next, though. Just don't know when.
-
Poor Bob well he had his own Silver Sevens I wonder if he changed anything after that ordeal. ?
Hence the need for an overabundant and unreported supply of fire extinguishers. It is my understanding that the amp went supernova shortly after the amp got back to Lynwood. Bob's amp, for a very brief moment achieved a fusion reaction before the magic smoke left the amp.Just to be clear, the 1.5 ohm resistor was added to the production models. I have no idea what he did for the Stereophile challenge other than he had to keep tweaking the amp the entire time because it was completely unstable.POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1 -
Rumor has it, he was more open minded about using better quality internal components after that.Poor Bob well he had his own Silver Sevens I wonder if he changed anything after that ordeal. ?
Whether you like Carver or not, you have to admit what he did was amazing, no pun intended.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Wow, I didn't mean to start a s... storm about Carver. My tech doesn't care for him; he spoke with him and thinks he's, well, doesn't much like him. He was picking apart the design of the 4.0t, right and left. He changed all kinds of stuff to get it to sound right to him. He got the distortion down from .5, to .03, which seems good to me. Anyway, it sounds nice to me,it's breaking in nicely, as well as the 194's, and the Apt Holman.
-
westmassguy wrote: »Rumor has it, he was more open minded about using better quality internal components after that.
Whether you like Carver or not, you have to admit what he did was amazing, no pun intended.
Bob was a pioneer and tinkerer. The thing about the Stereophile challenge was it really wasn't all that successful and it was more about Bob's ego than anything else. Personally not a fan of Carver gear and while I did listen to alot of his gear back in the day, It never really sounded anything like a tube amp to me.
All that said he contributed alot (still does) and had a very successful company for a while.
To the OP, if you like the amp that's great. But, IMO, Carver stuff never lived up to the hype, possible exception being the Carver Amazing loudspeakers.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
When does ego not come into play in this business? Regarding the challenge, he made the bet, they made the rules, and he won the bet. H9, you're a tube guy, you forgot what I know about tubes, which is practically nothing. There are many different types of tube amps, and hundreds of choices, combinations of tubes from what I see. I'm sure some amp/tube combinations could sound awful, so any mass market company producing SS amps could say their amp sounds like a tube amp. Unless they qualify the statement with a specific tube amp, it would be hard to prove them wrong in a legal sense.Bob was a pioneer and tinkerer. The thing about the Stereophile challenge was it really wasn't all that successful and it was more about Bob's ego than anything else. Personally not a fan of Carver gear and while I did listen to alot of his gear back in the day, It never really sounded anything like a tube amp to me.
All that said he contributed alot (still does) and had a very successful company for a while.
To the OP, if you like the amp that's great. But, IMO, Carver stuff never lived up to the hype, possible exception being the Carver Amazing loudspeakers.
H9
I use a Carver Pro Amp for my 2As. Some on here cringe at the thought of using any Pro Amp, but they sound wonderful to my ears, and that's really what it all comes down to.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Well said. I've never heard tube gear. But I'd like to. I'm fairly sure,though, as with SS gear, that three's some crappy tube stuff out there. As to WMG, Carver did state that the 4.0t, is the SS version of the Silver Seven. I don't happen to have an extra $20,000 to find out. I can tell you that Miles Davis, Kind Of Blue, sounds awfull nice.
-
Why do they not like your Carver Pro Amp?
You know your stuff, seems like what you have is probably what I want.westmassguy wrote: »When does ego not come into play in this business? Regarding the challenge, he made the bet, they made the rules, and he won the bet. H9, you're a tube guy, you forgot what I know about tubes, which is practically nothing. There are many different types of tube amps, and hundreds of choices, combinations of tubes from what I see. I'm sure some amp/tube combinations could sound awful, so any mass market company producing SS amps could say their amp sounds like a tube amp. Unless they qualify the statement with a specific tube amp, it would be hard to prove them wrong in a legal sense.
I use a Carver Pro Amp for my 2As. Some on here cringe at the thought of using any Pro Amp, but they sound wonderful to my ears, and that's really what it all comes down to.POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1 -
There are some who feel that pro amps are unsuited for home use. My PM-350, and PM-600 have nearly identical specs to Carvers consumer versions, and I got them for a very good price. The PM-350 is quiet as can be, even with it's cooling fan, and has no trouble dealing with my now, less than 4 ohm, SDA-2ATLs. She puts out 450 watts/channel into 4 or 2 ohms. As I said, they sound wonderful to my ears.Why do they not like your Carver Pro Amp?
You know your stuff, seems like what you have is probably what I want.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
BTW, drumiv, didn't intend to hijack your thread.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Carver did state that the 4.0t, is the SS version of the Silver Seven.
I've heard both.....not even close!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
WMG, not at all. It's been an interesting read. Feeling sure run white-hot, to ice-cold, about Carver stuff. Reminds me of the Ford-Chevy-Dodge debates I've had over the years. Besides, my post count is getting up there. Soon I'll find out what he secret code and handshake are!
-
Sorry to inform you, the secret handshake comes after 10,000 posts, and the code after 20,000. By that time you're also required to be a curmudgeon, or your code is revoked.......JKWMG, not at all. It's been an interesting read. Feeling sure run white-hot, to ice-cold, about Carver stuff. Reminds me of the Ford-Chevy-Dodge debates I've had over the years. Besides, my post count is getting up there. Soon I'll find out what he secret code and handshake are!
Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
What!!!!!!!!!
-
My SRS 1.2TL's are sounding better than ever with the Carver Monoblocks I have. Crisp, clear and amazingly powerful. Bass is fast, tight and deep. Top to bottom, easily the best sounding setup I have ever had.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
-
OK,enough on the Carver. I'm going to give the MA 5002 another shot. This time, I'm going to use it to power the LF, with the Parasound powering the high's. They match-up power wise almost right on, and the Soundsraftmen has the vollume controls, if there is an audible differance. Any thoughts?
