speaker jumpers, can you tell the difference?

marvda1

my stock jumpers have been audio art sc-5 jumpers and i have had some others but they seem to reduce the sound stage. i just got in some jps labs jumpers and the sound is fuller with better detail.
has anyone noticed a difference in sound between jumpers and/or jumpers and the stock metal bars that come your speakers?
i may have to try some of their other cables if i can afford it.

tonyb

Same observations as you in regards to jumpers. That's why I just use bi-wired cables, to eliminate that aspect.

chumlie

Quality jumpers were an improvement over stock bars.

BlueFox

Since I haven't tried bi-wiring, this is just a guess, but it would seem like a high quality 6" jumper would probably be better than adding another 8' of speaker cable. Of course, logic only goes so far when it comes to guessing what might sound better in a stereo. I know in the past my logic told me power cords had zip to do with how a stereo can sound. :rolleyes:

marvda1

that brings up the old argument of a single high quality cable pair vs. two lesser quality pairs. unless you can afford two pair of the higher quality cables.

zane77

BlueFox, if you go to the audioquest website they have an interesting paper that they claim separating the lower frequency signals from the highs in a bidirectional configuration improves the signal to both sections something about removing the interaction between the signals in a single cable setup. Kind of an interesting read

marvda1

of course this all depends on the quality of the crossover.

BlueFox

zane77 wrote: »

BlueFox, if you go to the audioquest website they have an interesting paper that they claim separating the lower frequency signals from the highs in a bidirectional configuration improves the signal to both sections something about removing the interaction between the signals in a single cable setup. Kind of an interesting read

Thanks. I will look that up. On the other hand, I'm not quite ready to spend $4K for another pair of speaker wires.

Here it is.

http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/UndrstndgBiWr.pdf

schwarcw

I tried biwiring with some MIT Shotgun S1 speaker cables. I did not get an appreciable if any difference. I did get a benefit from some good jumpers.

BlueFox

DSkip wrote: »

Bad night of poker?

LOL. Not that bad, but every penny helps. :biggrin:

Mike Reeter

When I purchased some Speaker Wires from Douglas Connections, Doug also made up a set of jumpers from the same wire. Before I hooked up the (new) Speaker Wires, I removed the old factory jumpers (wire) from my 3.1TL's and installed Doug's new jumpers, continuing to keep my old speaker wires in place.

I could hear an instant improvement in overall presentation of the 3.1's, It was a small improvement, but none the less, notable. The new jumpers coupled with the new Speaker Wires made a much larger impact on the sound I was experiencing, and has gotten better as the wires have settled in.

WLDock

schwarcw wrote: »

I tried biwiring with some MIT Shotgun S1 speaker cables. I did not get an appreciable if any difference. I did get a benefit from some good jumpers.

Interesting how there are SO many findings like this in audio. Logic would think that the star quad six connection points from amp to speaker in a Bi-wire would be cleaner than an eight connections in a normal wire and jumper config.

Or that it should be a toss up between the eight connection two wire Bi-wire vs. the eight connection single wire and jumper arraignment.

Then there is the question....why is wire better than the oem bars? and why do many manufactures still use them? Then there is the question of the quality of the connection point between the wire and the banana or spade terminal...are soldered terminals or screw type used? Is there a sound difference?

Logic just can't answer the question as to why removing a metal bar and connecting wire with metal terminals might sound better. Or would soldering wire to the amps PCB then to the crossovers PCB be the ultimate in connectivity and sound?

...just goes to show that there are no right or wrongs...just practices!

tonyb

exactly ^^

Good jumpers will be better than those brass plates that came with the speakers. Personally I'd suggest using the same jumpers as speaker cable, be it home made or professionally. Ordering jumpers from Doug the same time you bought the cables was a smart move. Glad to see some giving cables some thought ahead of time before waiting for a boat load of gear to arrive then decide to grab the cheapest they can find. Don't mean to nag on the 12$ cable thread from before, but honestly we see it more times than we care to admit.....and it drives me nuts.

Mike,
Maybe a short review with some history of cables you've tried is in order. Obviously your digging them as others have so maybe we can convince others to move off of those Monster and Monoprice cables especially for what Doug charges.

mantis

Whenever I install speakers with Jumpers, I remove them and either have Bi wires or replacement jumpers I custom build.
I notice very slight differences with the jumpers in place VS replacing them with wire.

Mike Reeter

tonyb wrote: »

Mike,
Maybe a short review with some history of cables you've tried is in order. Obviously your digging them as others have so maybe we can convince others to move off of those Monster and Monoprice cables especially for what Doug charges.

While I don't have an extensive history with several brands of hi-end speaker wire, I have had a couple of pair worth mentioning.

My first "better" wires were IXOS, a twisted strand design with some very copper in them, they were a good step up fidelity wise from what I was accustomed to (cheap crap).

I then picked up a pair of Franks Signal Cable Ultra wires and they were another GOOD step up the ladder of speaker wires. I ended up with three pairs of Signals Ultra and used them for the front three in our HT rig.

I started putting together a two channel rig and bought some Audioquest Bedrock wires, these had a tonal quality a little better that the Ultras, but not by much. I keep the Bedrocks in the 2 channel set up for quite a while, they did a lot of things right.

I kept the Signals and the Bedrocks around for several years, I was "content" for quite a while, another term for "I just cant afford anything better right now"

Then came along the MIT Shotgun S3.3 demo that Jesse and MIT was putting on, I waited for a long while before I decided to get in on this wonderful demo opportunity, I already knew beforehand that I would be floored by the S3.3's performance before I even unpacked them, my reasoning for waiting so long to demo them.

Well, as I suspected, the MIT's brought my rig to life like no other wire I'd ever had in place. That was when my remorse set in, I just don't have that kind of "fun money" laying around to be an MIT owner.

I had been reading reviews from some of Doug's customers and was curious about his products, called him and it wasn't long that a real nice pair of his "Double Run Furez 9AWG wires were in my rig, along with some very nice jumpers of the same wire.

The reason I just didn't have Doug make up a pair of bi-wires is I also roll my 1C's and CRS+'s in the two channel rig and they have a single pair of binding posts.

To the point, Dougs wires have bested any previous wire I've owned, while the Signals and Bedrocks were good, Doug's were better at every aspect from soundstage, pin point imaging, overall presentation, exceptional for the cost. They hit way above their weight class.

Did they beat out the Shotgun 3.3's?? No, but they don't give up much either, especially at a cost of around four times LESS than the MIT's.

I would highly recommend Douglas Connections wires and cables to anyone without hesitation, he sells a high quality product at a reasonable price and is absolutely great to work with.

Didn't intend to derail the original content of this thread, I probably should have posted this in a separate thread.

Dawgfish

I biwire running dual 8' runs of Analysis Plus Oval 9 SC to my 703s and SRS 2s. The difference between the dual runs and a single run with jumpers was not subtle. I get much better bass definition, smoother highs, and wider/deeper soundstage. When I do use jumpers I use JW Audio and they are a good improvement over stock jumpers.

Geoff4rfc

I've tried a number of configurations. I haven't noticed a difference in sound between any of them. I get the same bad a** sound everytime I turn on my set up.

For a laugh, the Neanderthal approach



The Star Wars approach



The Bi-wire approach



The Bi-amp approach



And currently, the homemade 12g jumper approach

EndersShadow

Geoff, it doesnt matter how you wire your speakers... they will always sound like crap cause of those Emotiva banana plugs.. sucks the music right out of the wire
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(for those who cant tell, this comment is made entirely in jest and no Emotivites were injured as a result)

tonyb

Geoff,
It's not so much the configuration, it's the wire. That's why you don't hear a difference.

Geoff4rfc

EndersShadow wrote: »

Geoff, it doesnt matter how you wire your speakers... they will always sound like crap cause of those Emotiva banana plugs.. sucks the music right out of the wire

tonyb wrote: »

Geoff,
It's not so much the configuration, it's the wire. That's why you don't hear a difference.

I'll rephrase;

From stock jumpers, to homemade jumpers, from bi-amp to bi-wire, there's been no difference in sound in my set up

Dawgfish

Another thing about biwiring (or biamping for that matter) is you need to use the exact same length and type of cable, other wise the soundstage can be mismatched. Here's another great write up on biwiring that convinced me to give it a try (and later biamping). http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/Answr7.htm

jbooker82

I am running Audio Quest Type 8's Single Bi Wire. On the amp / receiver end there is just one set of bananas. On the speaker end their is two sets of bananas.

BlueFox

I wrote Aerial Acoustics last night on this subject, and this is what I received this morning from the speaker designer. Unfortunately, I can't quite afford his suggestion at this time.

"Hi Bud,

That's I nice combination you have!

We don't have a general recommendation on bi-wiring because the results are variable. Bad cable isn't saved by bi-wiring. Also, Bi-wiring isn't necessary on the best cables. For cable in between, it can help.

Best is to disconnect one speaker, listen in mono for awhile until you are used to it, then bi-wire the first speaker using the extra cable from the disconnected speaker. Do not change anything else. Then listen again. This will give you some idea of what the effect is with your current cables. If you have good cables, the effect should be limited.

With a X600.5 you might consider the 20T V2's in the future. They are a whole new world. Not just better 7Ts but something beyond that in many ways. It's certainly more improvement than changing cables would provide, but it is more expensive too.

Thank you for choosing the 7T's.

Good Listening!


Michael Kelly

Aerial Acoustics"

miner

Jumper issue - run jumper cable from high to low or low to high? Meaning, main speaker wire attached to low or high input?

zane77

Shouldn't matter, but I hook mine to the low terminals just because they are physically lower down.

EndersShadow

miner wrote: »

Jumper issue - run jumper cable from high to low or low to high? Meaning, main speaker wire attached to low or high input?

If its the same wire, then no issues, but if the wire is different, use the best wire to the highs and jump to the lows.

Personally this is why I did bi-wire speaker cables. I just didnt want to wonder "what if", plus my cable manufacture didnt make jumpers using the wire I was planning on using, leaving me with the prospect of 110 dollar jumpers per speaker v a 30 dollar price difference by going with bi-wire...

tonyb

Fox,
The recommendation on the 20t's is solid. As an inbetween, and more cost effective, give a listen to the 10t's. Great speaker, and one you could live with a very long time.