Universally "Good" Bipole Surrounds for use with Non-Matching Fronts
falconcry72
Posts: 3,580
After much experimentation, I have decided on a front soundstage for my HT system:
Fronts: Usher Audio Dancer Mini 2 DMD's
Center: Usher Audio BE-616 DMD
Unfortunately, Usher does not make bipole surrounds, and I do not want to use their bookshelf speakers. I want wall-mountable bipoles, preferably with midrange drivers and tweeters firing in both directions. I would prefer a "lively" sound signature rather than warm to match with the Usher DMD's and to add some excitement to the mix. Budget is <1k, but closer to 500 would be nice.
So what are some universally good bipoles for this application?
I am currently considering the Klipsch Reference Series RS-62ii's for the following reasons:
- Tweeter and midrange firing in both directions.
- The Klipsch horns should be nice and lively.
- Slick semi-circle look when wall-mounted.
Concerns about the Klipschs:
- Are they too bright?
- Will the horns disperse as well as domes, or are they more directional?
Thanks for any recommendations!
Fronts: Usher Audio Dancer Mini 2 DMD's
Center: Usher Audio BE-616 DMD
Unfortunately, Usher does not make bipole surrounds, and I do not want to use their bookshelf speakers. I want wall-mountable bipoles, preferably with midrange drivers and tweeters firing in both directions. I would prefer a "lively" sound signature rather than warm to match with the Usher DMD's and to add some excitement to the mix. Budget is <1k, but closer to 500 would be nice.
So what are some universally good bipoles for this application?
I am currently considering the Klipsch Reference Series RS-62ii's for the following reasons:
- Tweeter and midrange firing in both directions.
- The Klipsch horns should be nice and lively.
- Slick semi-circle look when wall-mounted.
Concerns about the Klipschs:
- Are they too bright?
- Will the horns disperse as well as domes, or are they more directional?
Thanks for any recommendations!
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
Post edited by falconcry72 on
Comments
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Def Tech or B&W would likely match fairly well.
The only B&W speaker that would work is the DS3 in their 600 series, but I'm not sold on its quality. A bipole in the CM series would be awesome, but they don't make one.
The best Def Tech speaker for the job is the SR-8080BP, which looks very nice. It will be on my short list for sure.
Thanks for the suggestions!2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
Yeah, those are the new versions of the FX500i or wherever that i is. You seemed to want the dual woofer design, and the FX1000 is the only one that offers it in the RT line.
Gotcha.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
I agree, based on how good the F/X500 is, I think the F/X1000 would "nail it" in just about any HT setup....Yeah, voice matching and timber is one thing but I don't know that it gets much better unless you spend a lot more money....the used prices on the F/X500 & F/X500i sets are great deals....however, finding a set of the 1000s may take some patience. There is a guy the i was in contact awhile back on the Charlotte craigslist that has an RT5000 set with out the sub modules. He was willing to sell the pieces seperate at one time...but, he's had the post up for months and now they are on eBay. Less than 23Hrs left...Maybe if they don't sell he might be willing to break up the set?
On the flip..... I think the KEF Q800ds is a surround I want to hear in a good setup. The wide wide dispersion of the Uni-Q drivers might make for something special in terms of a surround speaker. However, the low end specs are not the best out there nor is the price...but it sounds like a nice speaker. I hope to get a change to check these out soon.2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
... I think the KEF Q800ds is a surround I want to hear in a good setup. The wide wide dispersion of the Uni-Q drivers might make for something special in terms of a surround speaker...
Ahh I forgot about the KEFs. I'll add them to the list. Thanks.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »Ahh I forgot about the KEFs. I'll add them to the list. Thanks.
I think Phil (pearlls001) is running that model surround in his HT and IIRC he's within reasonable driving distance.... Maybe get his thoughts on em and see about a demo..."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
OK I have a big gripe about the Klipschs and the Def Techs...
It seems they don't sell these surrounds as mirrored pairs, only as single speakers with all of them being the same. This wouldn't be an issue if the speakers were symmetrical... but they're not. Both manufacturer's designs have a tweeter towards the top on the left side and a tweeter towards the bottom on the right side. This means that the back right speaker would have the tweeter facing the listener on the bottom whereas the back left speaker would have the tweeter facing the listener on the top. I am WAY too OCD to be able to cope with that. Deal-breaker.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »I am WAY too OCD to be able to cope with that. Deal-breaker.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
They're not pretty, but they probably sound awesome (I have only owned the 500i) and the price sure is right!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151116801842?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
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Glad I'm not the only one. I use two Monitor 5's as a center channel under my TV only because one by itself wouldn't be symmetrical.
And the thing is, you wouldn't even be able to see a difference with the grills on... but I would KNOW that there is a difference! Plus it's just stupid.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
EndersShadow wrote: »I think Phil (pearlls001) is running that model surround in his HT and IIRC he's within reasonable driving distance.... Maybe get his thoughts on em and see about a demo...
The KEF Q800's are an awesome surround speaker. My entire setup is the KEF Q series except for the Def Tech Pro Monitor 1000's I'm using for my front & rear presence speakers. They blend in beautifully. My door is always open for a visit. Watching a Blu-Ray movie, a TV series show or a sporting event brings a tear to my eye every time I fire it up. Oh & the two channel listening is equally as impressive."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Why do it if its that painful? (insert smiley)
LOL!!! Tears of joy my good man, nothing at all to do with pain. Hey, what happened to all the icons?"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Those 1000's cabinets and grills are beat up for $300. However for $150-$200...could get some grill cloth, 3M spray glue, wood filler, paint and have a nice set of surrounds....the drivers look fine.2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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falconcry72 wrote: »After much experimentation, I have decided on a front soundstage for my HT system:
Fronts: Usher Audio Dancer Mini 2 DMD's
Center: Usher Audio BE-616 DMD
Unfortunately, Usher does not make bipole surrounds, and I do not want to use their bookshelf speakers. I want wall-mountable bipoles, preferably with midrange drivers and tweeters firing in both directions. I would prefer a "lively" sound signature rather than warm to match with the Usher DMD's and to add some excitement to the mix. Budget is <1k, but closer to 500 would be nice.
So what are some universally good bipoles for this application?
I am currently considering the Klipsch Reference Series RS-62ii's for the following reasons:
- Tweeter and midrange firing in both directions.
- The Klipsch horns should be nice and lively.
- Slick semi-circle look when wall-mounted.
Concerns about the Klipschs:
- Are they too bright?
- Will the horns disperse as well as domes, or are they more directional?
Thanks for any recommendations!Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I'm really suprised they don't make a surround set...and even more suprised there are no DIY designs around(That I could find) given the long history of raw drivers available. However, with four drivers per enclosure the cost would be about $800 for just the drivers before adding the costs of the crossover and enclosure parts, labor.2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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As a FYI, I'm more interested in sheer performance than timbre matching.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »As a FYI, I'm more interested in sheer performance than timbre matching.
If a company wants to play in the HT world, they need to have a complete theater package. B&W made this mistake with the CM line currently not offering a perfect matching surround speaker. This is why I decided not to go with the CM line and stay with my Def Tech's. I really like the CM9's as a music speaker, actually I like them a lot. but I use my system for both movies and music and can't stand mixing and matching even within the same brand.
Using someone else's surrounds if you can find a speaker that sounds very close to your Usher choice , then you can get away with it but if you put something back there thats very different, your not going to be happy with the overall results.
Sheer performance to me means perfect Timbre matching to achieve sonic perfection. No other brands your willing to consider for the full system?Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Are you sure then Usher is the right choice.
If a company wants to play in the HT world, they need to have a complete theater package. B&W made this mistake with the CM line currently not offering a perfect matching surround speaker. This is why I decided not to go with the CM line and stay with my Def Tech's. I really like the CM9's as a music speaker, actually I like them a lot. but I use my system for both movies and music and can't stand mixing and matching even within the same brand.
Using someone else's surrounds if you can find a speaker that sounds very close to your Usher choice , then you can get away with it but if you put something back there thats very different, your not going to be happy with the overall results.
Sheer performance to me means perfect Timbre matching to achieve sonic perfection. No other brands your willing to consider for the full system?
Without a doubt Dan (mantis) is right on the money here. Having experienced first hand the complex nature of a surround system with speakers from different manufactures & at that time I thought it sounded pretty darn good. Then I started adding more of the KEF speakers from the same Q series. With each addition the improvement & the sheer involvement in the sound track became more pronounced & enjoyable. The only mismatched speakers for now are my front & rear presence speakers which are Def Techs & they do blend in nicely but slowly I will be replacing them with the KEF Q 100's to further the timbre matching. Now I'm not saying that one can't be pleased with the performance of a mis-matched system but once you experience what timbre matching does for the full impact of the sound track you'll want to start implementing more speakers from the same line or at least from the same manufacture."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Martin Logan efx2
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pearsall001 wrote: »Without a doubt Dan (mantis) is right on the money here. Having experienced first hand the complex nature of a surround system with speakers from different manufactures & at that time I thought it sounded pretty darn good. Then I started adding more of the KEF speakers from the same Q series. With each addition the improvement & the sheer involvement in the sound track became more pronounced & enjoyable. The only mismatched speakers for now are my front & rear presence speakers which are Def Techs & they do blend in nicely but slowly I will be replacing them with the KEF Q 100's to further the timbre matching. Now I'm not saying that one can't be pleased with the performance of a mis-matched system but once you experience what timbre matching does for the full impact of the sound track you'll want to start implementing more speakers from the same line or at least from the same manufacture.
Dudes. This is not my first rodeo. I've done matched, I've done mis-matched, I've done matched, I've done mis-matched... Many iterations of both.
I fully comprehend your points, and I appreciate you trying to save me from my own ignorance, but I am where I am right now, and I am very happy to be where I am.
I LOVE the Usher Dancer Mini 2's! Not like... LOVE! And I am so stoke to be building a 5-channel system around them.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
But don't you hate the center from that line?
Edit: Talking about the logans here.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »But don't you hate the center from that line?
Edit: Talking about the logans here.
A balanced HT system is the only way to go for me.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
falconcry72 wrote: »Dudes. This is not my first rodeo. I've done matched, I've done mis-matched, I've done matched, I've done mis-matched... Many iterations of both.
I fully comprehend your points, and I appreciate you trying to save me from my own ignorance, but I am where I am right now, and I am very happy to be where I am.
I LOVE the Usher Dancer Mini 2's! Not like... LOVE! And I am so stoke to be building a 5-channel system around them.
I hate dealing with these kinds of issues. Glad you dig your speakers enough to deal with this.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
The center is not good for a whole room and I have a matinee center in the closet and a stage in the box. The surrounds that I mentioned are never going to blend with ML but they do a great job of pumping out surround info.
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Have you looked at Triad... I know they do dipole not sure if bipole but saw/heard them in a high end ht shop... they are sweetMy New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160
Family Room| Marantz AV7704| Usher Dancer Mini - 2 DMD Mains |Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's Surrounds | Usher BE-616 DMD Center | SVS Ultra Rear Surrounds | Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | MIT Shotgun S3's | Dual SVS SB 4000 Ultras | Oppo UDP 203 | Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life |
ManCave: HT:Polk LSiM 706VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's|| Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro Sunfire TGA-7401| Sony PS4 Pro| Sony PS4 Pro|SVS PB13 Ultra| Oppo UDP 203 | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Samsung 55" SUHD TV | Sony PS4
Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |
Office BlueSound Node| KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |
Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |
Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's
Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 | LSiM 705's | -
Found these on ebay... great deal 14 day return
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triad-Speakers-On-Wall-Gold-Surround-Dipole-Audiophile-rear-side-effects-Black-/161108773903?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2582d4cc0fMy New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160
Family Room| Marantz AV7704| Usher Dancer Mini - 2 DMD Mains |Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's Surrounds | Usher BE-616 DMD Center | SVS Ultra Rear Surrounds | Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | MIT Shotgun S3's | Dual SVS SB 4000 Ultras | Oppo UDP 203 | Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life |
ManCave: HT:Polk LSiM 706VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's|| Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro Sunfire TGA-7401| Sony PS4 Pro| Sony PS4 Pro|SVS PB13 Ultra| Oppo UDP 203 | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Samsung 55" SUHD TV | Sony PS4
Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |
Office BlueSound Node| KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |
Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |
Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's
Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 | LSiM 705's | -
Mikey081057 wrote: »Have you looked at Triad... I know they do dipole not sure if bipole but saw/heard them in a high end ht shop... they are sweet
I will check out triad. Thanks for the rec, Mike!2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »I will check out triad. Thanks for the rec, Mike!
Hey Mike, I'm very interested in the Triads. How did they sound when you heard them? Bright, warm, or what?
Check out these new surrounds they make:
http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/owgsur.html
They may be overkill... I'm liking the ones on ebay too.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
I'm thinking the Totem Lynks might work too...2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's