lism speakers out of phase, says yamaho recevier. Help

drumminman

I didn't like the sound when I used the auto calibrate function on my Yamaha receiver, so I set it up manually. M-u-c-h better!

Mikey081057

My old yamaha avr did the same thing... it was annoying, it did it on my rear surrounds which are bipole/dipole which I can understand... but my Marantz with Audessy doesn't do it. It must be the way reflections are hitting the microphone, and nothing to worry about as long as they are wired correctly, and that the speaks themselves are wired correctly. Did you check the yamaha site... I recall doing that some years ago when I had mine.

sk88

With my pioneer, I repeated several times all with same results - out of phase when connected with correct polarity, no out of phase when connected with reversed polarity. So for whatever reason the mic is picking up from room reflection, it's real.

My question is that if that's how my room reflection turned out to be, shouldn't I keep the two speakers both reversed in polarity (both + to - and - to +)? This would mean that they would be out of phase to the other speakers in terms of how the wires are connected but may actually be in phase with the other speakers as a result in terms of actual listening. Which way I should do?

tonyb

which way sounds better to you ?

sk88

I'll have to listen to some multi-channel music to find out. But, let's say I find it sound better with reversed polarity on the two front speakers, is there any negative that I leave it that way long term?

BlueFox

Aside from the phase cancelation resulting from reversed speaker cables causing the end of life as we know it, there shouldn't be any issues.

tonyb

Agreed, aside from the dog and cat starting to get along and the possibility of the wife turning into a zombie, I see no other issues associated with it.

Jhayman

He's running YPAO and I've had the same issue with out of phase.
Christper2000 how big is your room and how close are the speakers to the walls?
The YPAO is reading a lot of room reflections just ignore it, it's fine..

Nightfall wrote: »

That is pretty funny.

If it says it's in phase, you're good to go. If it says it's not in phase then ignore it.

JimAckley

I got the same "out-of-phase" error message from my SC-37 when I was reviewing the 703s and 707s. Everything was wired correctly.

sk88

Thanks for all the "comforting" words!

Didn't want to hihack this thread. I beleive OP is using YPAO and I am using MCACC, but I think this is all relavant information.
I played more over the weekend reversing speaker polarity and run tests. Surprisingly, MCACC was able to tell me each wire that I have reserved or reversed back. At a time there were 4 speakers reversed and the other 3 did not. So, I think it's measuring something on each speaker individually in addition to the relative phases among the speakers.

I don't know if this is true or not but I think LSiM must have wider dispersing angles than LSi speakers. That would lead to different room relections patterns. And that must be why I didn't get this out of phase messages with LSi while everything else remains identical.

The reason the AVR says to ignore the message if the wires are connected correctly is becasue the auto adjustment will try to compensate group delays for phase controls (at least that's the case on my model). So, at the end, I decided to leave all wires connected corretly as they should be and ignored the message as many people have suggested.

Dog seems to like the result, and wife likes it too. No cats.

leftwinger57

I also had an out phase reading on my RX-V665 and checked and rechecked my wires.I used banded bananas w/ striped wire so I knew for sure all my polarity issues were right.I didn't also like the YPAO set up w/ the mic w/ the rears never to be heard so I also did it manually after I was sure all was ok w/ the set up.What I do like is going through the setup on screen tv which is a thousand times easier than reading the LED on the avr it's self..

pretzelfisch

I reran YPAO in my office yesterday for the first time after the 1.8 upgrade and it told my my lsim 703 are out of phase. This seems like it's a bug in YPAO, since this room previously ran without any warning and nothing has moved.

nhhiep

same with my denon AVR saying my RTi setup is out of phase. I trust my eyes with the + and -

Msabot1

Guys I'm a little confused here....how can signal reflection cause a piece of equipment to display a message that the output load is out of phase? The internal wiring of the speaker or the amp would have to be crossed assuming the correct polarity is maintained between outs of amp and ins of the speakers? Never had this problem as described....interesting!!

nhhiep

^
from what i read, it's the xo inside the speakers that sometimes confuse the avr

sk88

Msabot1 wrote: »

....how can signal reflection cause a piece of equipment to display a message that the output load is out of phase?

My understanding is this. If the soundwave from each speaker all arrive at the mic at the same time, then none of them would be out of phase. When soundwave from a speaker arrive late (meaning there is a delay between when the test signal is generated and when the sound is picked up by the mic), then that speaker may be considered out of phase. It is a matter of delays in sound traveling and room reflections can cause that to the measurement.

Those soundwave frequencies are measured in Hertz, which means the dealy would be in thounsands of a second. Quite subtle for the mic to pick up and measure. Make sure the mic is stationed with a tripod. It needs to be perfectly leveled and facing the ceiling without obstruction and positioned right at the normal listening positon where your ear would be.

In my case as I mentioned, there is nothing wrong with my speaker wiring. However, I can reverse polarity on any speaker and the system would flag that one as out of phase. I tried it on several speakers and each time the system flagged it correctly. So I am quite sure it's a result of delays caused by reflections. I don't know about YPAO (mine is pioneer) but a quick seach tells me that it can compensate for phase shift by adjusting speaker distances. That's why it says to just ignore the message if the speaker is wired correctly.

all4usa

Same exact thing happened with my 707LSiMs and yamaha a2010, after doing same research you did here I just left them connected correctly (albeit out of phase according to ypao) and everything is fine. Good luck. BTW 140wpc 2ch driven from my yamaha wasn't enough for me so I just picked up a used sunfire 5ch x 200wpc which I'll comment on after I demo it for a while. Good luck