lism speakers out of phase, says yamaho recevier. Help

christper2000

hi I'm a newbie here.
I purchase 2 lsim 703 speakers and 1 lsim 76c center speaker. I also purchase a Yamaha a3030 av receiver.
When I the auto calibration on the receiver it give me a warning that the left and right lsim 703 and the lsim 706c speakers are out of phase the to reverse the the speaker wires. I made sure the wires are correct + to + and - to -. I bi amp the front left and right speakers and the lsim center is bi wired. I don't know what to do. I actually tried to which the wires to + to - and - to + and when I did this the receiver says they are correct with no warning even though the which the wire wrong to see what happens. Does these speakers suppose to be out of phase. Both ways the sound is good but I don't what is good sound from theses.
Please help me out this issue I am having.

thanks
Chris

F1nut

Did you check that the connections on the back of your AVR are in phase with the connections to the speakers?

You are not bi-amping squat with an AVR. Real Bi-amping requires separate amps, each with its own power supply, not a shared one like your AVR. Bi-amping also requires the use of active crossovers. In addition, the more channels that you use, the less power per channel the AVR can supply. Your AVR is rated at 150wpc with only 2 channels driven.

Specs from Yamaha,

150 W per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.06% THD, 2 ch driven)

nguyendot

Try only hooking up a single set of wires instead of your passive biwiring to create a simpler hookup with less change of crossed wires.

christper2000

what do you mean by connections on the back of your AVR are in phase with the connections to the speaker. The AVR Positive post wire to the positive post wire on the speaker and AVR Negative Post wire to the Negative post wire on the speaker. I made sure that the wires are correct. In the Yamaha A3030 manual, it say if the wires are correct, then just ignore the out of phase warning. By the way, I email Polk Audio and someone told me that they can't help me since they don't see the setup and an't hear the speakers. Any advice.
Thanks in advance
Chris

Nightfall

nguyendot wrote: »

Try only hooking up a single set of wires instead of your passive biwiring to create a simpler hookup with less change of crossed wires.

Try this.

christper2000

Ok I will try that, should I use the Binding Post Connector wires that same with the speakers that connect the top + and the Bottom + ?

F1nut

what do you mean by connections on the back of your AVR are in phase with the connections to the speaker. The AVR Positive post wire to the positive post wire on the speaker and AVR Negative Post wire to the Negative post wire on the speaker. I made sure that the wires are correct.

That's what I meant.

In the Yamaha A3030 manual, it say if the wires are correct, then just ignore the out of phase warning.

LOL....pretty useless feature in that case.

By the way, I email Polk Audio and someone told me that they can't help me since they don't see the setup and [c]an't hear the speakers.

I can't blame them.

Nightfall

christper2000 wrote: »

Ok I will try that, should I use the Binding Post Connector wires that same with the speakers that connect the top + and the Bottom + ?

Yes, connect the top and bottom binding posts either with what came with the speakers or just a small length of wire.

F1nut

Ok I will try that, should I use the Binding Post Connector wires that same with the speakers that connect the top + and the Bottom + ?

Yes.

Nightfall

F1nut wrote: »

LOL....pretty useless feature in that case.

That is pretty funny.

If it says it's in phase, you're good to go. If it says it's not in phase then ignore it.

christper2000

ok I will do that. thanks

christper2000

Nightfall wrote: »

That is pretty funny.

If it says it's in phase, you're good to go. If it says it's not in phase then ignore it.

it says ignore it only if the wire hook up is correct ( +to+ and -to- )

christper2000

F1nut wrote: »

Did you check that the connections on the back of your AVR are in phase with the connections to the speakers?

You are not bi-amping squat with an AVR. Real Bi-amping requires separate amps, each with its own power supply, not a shared one like your AVR. Bi-amping also requires the use of active crossovers. In addition, the more channels that you use, the less power per channel the AVR can supply. Your AVR is rated at 150wpc with only 2 channels driven.

Specs from Yamaha,

Do you know a good amp that I can use to bi-amp these speakers that has that active crossover that I need? maybe with 5 channels?

tonyb

amps don't have crossovers in them, an active crossover is a separate entity. That said, you could try splitting the signal with an RCA splitter for each channel and then run to 2 inputs on an amp which is then used with 2 sets of speaker wire to a speaker. Though not true bi-amping, it gives each speaker more power. Though I don't know why you'd want to do that as the LSIM's are fairly easy to drive. If your wanting to bi-amp to gain more volume, think again.

christper2000

tonyb wrote: »

amps don't have crossovers in them, an active crossover is a separate entity. That said, you could try splitting the signal with an RCA splitter for each channel and then run to 2 inputs on an amp which is then used with 2 sets of speaker wire to a speaker. Though not true bi-amping, it gives each speaker more power. Though I don't know why you'd want to do that as the LSIM's are fairly easy to drive. If your w anting to bi-amp to gain more volume, think again.

I hear that is you bi-amp, you can better and clearer sound. I am not worry about how loud it is. For me, the AV gives me good volume which Im fine with. Just thought if I use an amp , I would get better sound

TNHNDYMAN

Hello new guy to the forum and welcome to CLub Polk. I'm going to suggest that you just hook up the speakers to the a terminals on your AVR for now. Listen and enjoy. IF you would like to try to bi amp in the future then please do a little due diligence and try to understand what bi amping is and how to properly implement it if feasible in your system. For now KISS-- keep it simple stupid. Not insulting you, just for most people better results are obtained without complicating things. Down the road that may change but for now enjoy the music, learn from others with more experience and then as budget allows improve what you have.

christper2000

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

Hello new guy to the forum and welcome to CLub Polk. I'm going to suggest that you just hook up the speakers to the a terminals on your AVR for now. Listen and enjoy. IF you would like to try to bi amp in the future then please do a little due diligence and try to understand what bi amping is and how to properly implement it if feasible in your system. For now KISS-- keep it simple stupid. Not insulting you, just for most people better results are obtained without complicating things. Down the road that may change but for now enjony the music, learn from others with more experience and then as budget allows improve what you have.

hello
I have it hooked up to the a terminals on the AV. And planning to leave it that way. but my AV says its out of phase when the wires at hooked up correctly. I have other surround sound speakers and they are fine, it just the lsim polk speakers are out of phase.

WLDock

christper2000 wrote: »

Do you know a good amp that I can use to bi-amp these speakers that has that active crossover that I need? maybe with 5 channels?

Have you seriously thought about your goals? It sounds like you just bought this equipment? By all means take comments here with a grain of salt! YES, going with a quality A/V Pre/Pro, active crossover and some high quality amps is one (expensive and complex) way to go about Bi-amping. However, you have a capable $2K+ AVR that is probably has very few hours on it. Your unit has 9 amp channels and has Bi-Amp ability. You spent your hard earned money on this unit so you might as well maximize its ability and enjoy it. Don't let anyone take the wind out of your sails. Continue to do what you are doing with the Bi-amp channels and if you so desire add an external amp if you feel the system is not meeting your goals.

Go over the manual again and pull out all connections and redo everything to make sure you did not goof somewhere. We all have looked at something several times and it was wrong. So start fresh and I'am sure you can work this out. Also, I would test each speaker pair with some type of polarity audio test track to see whats what. here is one: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php Lets hope there was no goof on Polk's end and something is wired out of phase....however it could be the internal crossovers wiring/filter slopes? Whatever it is, you just want all speakers to be in phase to each other. Could also test each speaker with a battery. Just quickly touch the leads. The cones should move outwards with POS to POS and NEG to NEG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIMHGkxw72o

christper2000

Yeah, I just bought the equipment and I am using the Bi-amp on the AV. It sounds great. It just that when i use the auto calibation on the AV, it tell me that the Lsim speakers are out of phase and to reverse the wires. The wires are current. I did what you said, take the all the wire out and put them back one by one. And still have the same issue. Everything might be fine, it just bothers me that the AV says it might not be. Is there any way to test these speakers?

christper2000

WLDock wrote: »

Go over the manual again and pull out all connections and redo everything to make sure you did not goof somewhere. We all have looked at something several times and it was wrong. So start fresh and I'am sure you can work this out. Also, I would test each speaker pair with some type of polarity audio test track to see whats what. here is one: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php Lets hope there was no goof on Polk's end and something is wired out of phase....however it could be the internal crossovers wiring/filter slopes? Whatever it is, you just want all speakers to be in phase to each other. Could also test each speaker with a battery. Just quickly touch the leads. The cones should move outwards with POS to POS and NEG to NEG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIMHGkxw72o

will this work with the lsim speakers since they have the tweeter and mid-rage and the woofer speaker all in one?

WLDock

While there are different ways and tools to test for polarity, using a battery is a simple method. Just never connect the battery for a long period, tap the leads it and watch the cone movement of all drivers.

christper2000

thanks again for everyones help

WLDock

Let us know if everyting is in phase with the battery test. Then do some test track listening.

pretzelfisch

I got this message with my yamaha 7065 when I switched from lsim 703 fronts to 705 the receiver gave me the same message. I don't know how you have yours positioned but, the manual says it can also be caused by reflections in the room. So don't worry about it if you checked the wire and maybe look into some room treatment for your first reflection points.

christper2000

I check everything. I just left it and ignored the massage. I forgot I had the WOW blu-ray that I can use to calibrate to sound. I use the polarity test. So are in phase but its really hard to tell. I think is the reflections in the room like pretzelfisch said. I have the speakers in a corner, there is no other place to move them to.

christper2000

christper2000 wrote: »

I check everything. I just left it and ignored the massage. I forgot I had the WOW blu-ray that I can use to calibrate to sound. I use the polarity test. So are in phase but its really hard to tell. I think is the reflections in the room like pretzelfisch said. I have the speakers in a corner, there is no other place to move them to.

The Speakers are IN PHASE :-)

nguyendot

Perhaps thats why the calibration is confused... they may be out of phase due to reflections. Move the speakers.

christper2000

theres no room to put them anywhere else :-/

sk88

I recently swapped out the Lsi 25 with a new pair of Lsim 705. Same position, same amp and same everything but I got the "out of phase" message on Lsim 705, which didn't happen on Lsi 25. A battery test verified nothing wrong with the speakers. So I guess it's just a matter of how the sound reflects differently from the different speakers even in the same room. So I switched the polarity on the pair of Lsim 705 and it works fine. It'd be interesting to know why such difference between Lsi and LsiM.

plainoledave

Man, I think you should probably just sell them... To me!

jon s

You don't have to worry... A lot of AVRs cannot accurately determine phase errors. My Pioneer keeps saying my speakers are out of phase but I know they are fine. When i play back music in stereo, the soundstage is correct (if it is out of phase, the sound is obviously out of coherence).

When I did a phase test using a test disc, the disc said everything wascorrect.