Synergistic Research Fuses installed tonight

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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,082
    edited September 2022
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    I bought the synergistic fuses a while back, I pulled back the sticker and it revealed a 75 cent fuse was used... Beyond dabbing it with black paint and I installing a sticker on it, I could not see how they otherwise altered it.

    I went with hifi research fuse which was an actual fuse built from the ground up with silver and gold caps, silver fuse lead, etc...

    Heard minimal to no differences.

    Caveat emptor as always in this hobby

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/194604/synergistic-research-orange-fuses#latest
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,481
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    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    KennethSwauger wrote: »
    I've tried removing the fuses in my amps and backgrounds are definitely quieter.

    still waters run deep

    :smiley:

    It is unknown whether they make sound in the forest.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,007
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    I've kept the Tweek Geek website (with Quantum Science Audio products) open as separate tab in the background for awhile now. There are reviews that say the QSA fuses best the SR fuses, but no personal experience here.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,456
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    HiFi Research fuses are awesome!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,195
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    Should I even ask what the theory is behind this since the ear is the best measuring instrument, although subjective?

    All I know is that different alloys have different melting points. Heat dissipated by the filament = I^2 x R and if I is high enough the temperature resulting will melt the filament. R increases with current and temperature = positive temperature coefficient. I would think for stable audio over different listening levels you would want this PTC to be as low as possible.

    So it all comes back to the idea that different metallic compositions and grain structures (cryo treatment effects this?) sound different but this cannot be measured? Yet.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,386
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    Gardenstater wrote: »
    So it all comes back to the idea that different metallic compositions and grain structures (cryo treatment effects this?) sound different but this cannot be measured? Yet.

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,082
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    In my experience with fuses, you should take your old fuse out, clean the contacts then put it back in.

    After listening to that, try the new fuse
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,386
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    Always.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 525
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    The SR fuses are not impressive looking at all. They inspire no confidence (especially relative to the price). As VR3 wrote above they look like the crappiest fuse you could buy with a sticker and a dab of some mystery substance. I have little understanding of what sort of voodoo SR claims to perform on them. One would think that for what they charge, SR could start from scratch with OCC copper or silver caps; the very best materials obtainable. However, as posted earlier, they were a vast improvement on the HiFi Tuning fuses (everything polished and treated with DeoxIT Gold) in my Cambridge 840C. I install the same SR fuse in my Ayre preamp - nothing.
    Polk Audio first generation RTA-12s; 12 inch Polk Stands; DHS Speaker Service upgraded crossovers w/ Sonicap/Mills; the "westmassguy anti-lobing mod" (hyperdamped outer drivers/mirror imaged); tweeter anti-diffraction mod; Cardas binding posts; Neotech UPOCC internal wire; foam-lined inner driver baskets; xschop phase plugs; deleted fuses; Hurricane nuts; Sonic Barrier; Dynamat Xtreme
    Ayre K-5xeMP preamplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD player; Herbie's Audio Lab Super Black Hole CD Mat
    D-Sonic Custom Audio M3a-600M monoblock amplifiers
    NAD 4155 FM/AM tuner
    Silnote Audio Morpheus Reference II Series II balanced interconnects; Virtue Audio single-ended interconnects
    Kimber 12TC speaker cable w/Furez connectors; VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables w/Furutech connectors
    Herbie's Audio Lab system isolation: Tenderfeet, Big Fat Dots, Grungebuster Dots, Little Fat Gliders
    Dedicated 20A/10 AWG circuit; Furutech GTX-D (G) outlet; Furutech eTP80; Shunyata Research Venom Defender; Synergistic Research Orange fuses
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,082
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    Synergistic research as a company is caveat emptor. Ted genny or whatever his name is is a real piece of work.

    Feel free to read into his audioholics shenanigans.

    Buyer beware.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 525
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    Yes, caveat emptor.
    Polk Audio first generation RTA-12s; 12 inch Polk Stands; DHS Speaker Service upgraded crossovers w/ Sonicap/Mills; the "westmassguy anti-lobing mod" (hyperdamped outer drivers/mirror imaged); tweeter anti-diffraction mod; Cardas binding posts; Neotech UPOCC internal wire; foam-lined inner driver baskets; xschop phase plugs; deleted fuses; Hurricane nuts; Sonic Barrier; Dynamat Xtreme
    Ayre K-5xeMP preamplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD player; Herbie's Audio Lab Super Black Hole CD Mat
    D-Sonic Custom Audio M3a-600M monoblock amplifiers
    NAD 4155 FM/AM tuner
    Silnote Audio Morpheus Reference II Series II balanced interconnects; Virtue Audio single-ended interconnects
    Kimber 12TC speaker cable w/Furez connectors; VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables w/Furutech connectors
    Herbie's Audio Lab system isolation: Tenderfeet, Big Fat Dots, Grungebuster Dots, Little Fat Gliders
    Dedicated 20A/10 AWG circuit; Furutech GTX-D (G) outlet; Furutech eTP80; Shunyata Research Venom Defender; Synergistic Research Orange fuses
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,481
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    Latin is dead, speak English you freaks.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,456
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    Stock fuses are steel wire. Nothing else in the signal path from pre to speaker that I'm aware of is. If it was a great signal transfer medium don't you think there'd be more?

    Edit: maybe signal tubes.

    HiFi Research fuses use silver.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,082
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    Most cheap caps and resistors use steel leads
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,481
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    that is kind of a good point about the fuses and their conductors. I never really thought much about these things. I don't know how much the steel leads differ from the conductors' gauge/material and all in the path where the fuses are, but does seem like a choke point?
    I disabled signatures.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,082
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    Hifi tuning Supreme is the ONLY fuse I am aware of that is built from the ground up with copper /silver caps with a silver filament wire.

    Every other brand is taking every day fuses and doing voodoo magic as far as I can recall.

    The real kicker is the hifi tuning fuses are not that expensive compared to the synergistic, etc
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,195
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    Fuse filaments are definitely not made of steel because you need a high resistance and low melting point. Something like a Sn, Pb alloy. Ag, Cu, Zn, and Al can also be in the mix.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,286
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    Fuse filaments are made of tin and lead as far as I know
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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 525
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    Also, the HiFi tuning fuses I replaced with SR (post above) were an early non-Supreme version. Have not tried the Supreme version (yet). The description of the Supreme construction sounds impressive.
    Polk Audio first generation RTA-12s; 12 inch Polk Stands; DHS Speaker Service upgraded crossovers w/ Sonicap/Mills; the "westmassguy anti-lobing mod" (hyperdamped outer drivers/mirror imaged); tweeter anti-diffraction mod; Cardas binding posts; Neotech UPOCC internal wire; foam-lined inner driver baskets; xschop phase plugs; deleted fuses; Hurricane nuts; Sonic Barrier; Dynamat Xtreme
    Ayre K-5xeMP preamplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD player; Herbie's Audio Lab Super Black Hole CD Mat
    D-Sonic Custom Audio M3a-600M monoblock amplifiers
    NAD 4155 FM/AM tuner
    Silnote Audio Morpheus Reference II Series II balanced interconnects; Virtue Audio single-ended interconnects
    Kimber 12TC speaker cable w/Furez connectors; VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables w/Furutech connectors
    Herbie's Audio Lab system isolation: Tenderfeet, Big Fat Dots, Grungebuster Dots, Little Fat Gliders
    Dedicated 20A/10 AWG circuit; Furutech GTX-D (G) outlet; Furutech eTP80; Shunyata Research Venom Defender; Synergistic Research Orange fuses
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,195
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    Gardenstater wrote: »
    Fuse filaments are definitely not made of steel because you need a high resistance and low melting point. Something like a Sn, Pb alloy. Ag, Cu, Zn, and Al can also be in the mix.

    I meant to say high resistivity which is resistance per unit length for a given cross sectional area = R x A/l
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,016
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    Ok now….
    Can someone please explain to me how a fuse can change the sound of a component?

    Skip
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,286
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    A fuse is a bottleneck, also some people claim the vibration through the fuse can be heard. I don't think anyone is arguing that when a fuse is used in a speaker, eliminating it is definitely an improvement in sound quality, also most really high end amplifiers have stopped putting them in the power rails.
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,016
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    Any other splanations would be appreciated.
    I’m having a hard time with this one.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,082
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    The musical fidelity tri Vista integrated has fuses in line with the main outs. I upgraded those to the hifi tuning Supreme.

    I experienced no real changes upgrading fuses
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,016
    edited September 2022
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    Tanks guys.

    I’ve been into the tweak/mod gig since coming into this hobby in the 70’s.
    Always trying to eek out a little better sound.

    Even if it didn’t provide an improvement in sound it is always enjoyable fiddling with my gear.
    Building my own speaker wires provided an increase in enjoyment, when listening, just looking at what I had accomplished.
    Other times there was an improvement.

    Very reason I’m enjoying the first set of mods to my sda’s….
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