Chasing the devil
F1nut
Posts: 50,570
About 3 months ago I started to play around with the idea of adding cable elevators to the big rig and made a thread about that here, http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?148988-Cable-Elevators&daysprune=100
So, after adding the Styrofoam cups and noticing a slight improvement I decided to order the wooden elevators from Russ Andrews, but before doing so I played around with the cable placement trying to figure out the best way to route everything. I ended up moving the power conditioner and swapped out a 2 meter power cord running to the SACD player for a 1 meter version of the same brand. After getting everything just so I started to notice something didn't sound quite right. About the same time I developed an inner ear infection or some such, so I chalked up the odd sound to that and let some time pass before doing anymore critical listening. Fast forward, so by this time I'm certain the ear issue is gone, but there's still something not quite right. I remove the Styrofoam cups and for a short period of time I'm thinking the sound I know and love is back......well, make that sort of. What I noticed the most was that screaming guitars didn't sound right, very harsh and I had listening fatigue after a while, which never happened before with this rig. This definitely wasn't normal. I have very sensitive hearing, particularly to high frequencies that don't sound right, which is one reason I can't take B&W speakers. Anyway, this issue was driving me crazy. I put the Styrofoam cups back in, I took them back out, I swapped the SACD player for my office rig CD player, I moved/adjusted the cables many times, I checked and double checked the connections, I put my ear up the gear and speakers listening for something not right until thoroughly disgusted I shut it all down and left it off for a good while. I put the CDP back in my office rig and just listened to that rig. In the meantime I got a bug up my butt and ordered the wooden cable elevators anyway. So, they arrive and I finish them in a black satin, put them in place, turn on the big rig and damn, it still sounds wrong. I'm pissed. So, earlier today I'm determined to get to the bottom of this and put my thinking cap on. Then it hits me, it's the damn 1 meter power cord, it has to be. I swap the 2 meter cord back in and I'm back in musical heaven again. Just like that I was done chasing the devil.
After a healthy listening session I turned my attention to the 1 meter power cord. Getting my meter on it I notice that the ground pin, which is removable, is giving funny readings. Well what do you know, the pin is loose. I'm thinking that unless there is something else wrong with this cord that the loose ground pin was the cause of the distortion.
Don't ask me if these wooden cable elevators make a difference in the sound. Right now, I don't know and don't care. Maybe down the road I'll take them out to see if I can hear a difference, then again maybe not as the rig sounds glorious again. I will say this, they look nice.
Sometimes I hate this hobby.
So, after adding the Styrofoam cups and noticing a slight improvement I decided to order the wooden elevators from Russ Andrews, but before doing so I played around with the cable placement trying to figure out the best way to route everything. I ended up moving the power conditioner and swapped out a 2 meter power cord running to the SACD player for a 1 meter version of the same brand. After getting everything just so I started to notice something didn't sound quite right. About the same time I developed an inner ear infection or some such, so I chalked up the odd sound to that and let some time pass before doing anymore critical listening. Fast forward, so by this time I'm certain the ear issue is gone, but there's still something not quite right. I remove the Styrofoam cups and for a short period of time I'm thinking the sound I know and love is back......well, make that sort of. What I noticed the most was that screaming guitars didn't sound right, very harsh and I had listening fatigue after a while, which never happened before with this rig. This definitely wasn't normal. I have very sensitive hearing, particularly to high frequencies that don't sound right, which is one reason I can't take B&W speakers. Anyway, this issue was driving me crazy. I put the Styrofoam cups back in, I took them back out, I swapped the SACD player for my office rig CD player, I moved/adjusted the cables many times, I checked and double checked the connections, I put my ear up the gear and speakers listening for something not right until thoroughly disgusted I shut it all down and left it off for a good while. I put the CDP back in my office rig and just listened to that rig. In the meantime I got a bug up my butt and ordered the wooden cable elevators anyway. So, they arrive and I finish them in a black satin, put them in place, turn on the big rig and damn, it still sounds wrong. I'm pissed. So, earlier today I'm determined to get to the bottom of this and put my thinking cap on. Then it hits me, it's the damn 1 meter power cord, it has to be. I swap the 2 meter cord back in and I'm back in musical heaven again. Just like that I was done chasing the devil.
After a healthy listening session I turned my attention to the 1 meter power cord. Getting my meter on it I notice that the ground pin, which is removable, is giving funny readings. Well what do you know, the pin is loose. I'm thinking that unless there is something else wrong with this cord that the loose ground pin was the cause of the distortion.
Don't ask me if these wooden cable elevators make a difference in the sound. Right now, I don't know and don't care. Maybe down the road I'll take them out to see if I can hear a difference, then again maybe not as the rig sounds glorious again. I will say this, they look nice.
Sometimes I hate this hobby.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Post edited by F1nut on
Comments
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Sometimes I hate this hobby.
We all feel that way sometimes about technology. It's fun until some little thing goes wrong and drives you crazy figuriing it out. But hey, think of how much more you appreciate your system now that you had to listen to it's evil 1-meter twin. -
I like to say "there's such a thing as too much technology"... and I say this as a former head of a biotech technology process development strategy initiative at an embarassingly large pharmaceutical enterprise :-( (maybe that's why I am not there any more...)
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I hear ya Jess....been there myself chasing down the smallest differences after I did something......and yes, usually comes down to the stupidest little thing that shouldn't matter but it does.
Now I've gone down the elevator path too but found the Styrofoam cups under the cables made it sound worse in my system. Used wood.....alittle better but not where it was before sound wise. So put everything back, nix the elevators and just left it all alone. Lessons learned for me anyway. First rule, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Great story Jesse! It's amazing how some little thing like that can change the sound so much. Glad you figured out the problem, and are back to musical nirvana.Sunfire Theater Grand IV
Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
SRS 2.1TL
SDA 2BTL's
CSiA6
FXiA4
FXiA6
SDA 2A's
Monitor 10A's
http://www.douglasconnection.com -
Could be too he changed his brand of scotch. :biggrin:HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
One meter is short for a power cord, especially if it is filtering. Removable ground pins certainly "sounds" like a recipe for problems. If not now then at some point in the future.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Just can't leave well enough alone can you! :surprised: Now go make yourself a nice hot cup of tea & relax."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Your system harsh? Yeah, something was amiss. That's twice now you have swapped out something as simple as a power cord and something was amiss. The last time IIRC, it was some sort of three legged Shunyata or something. F'd with the overall tone of the system. Glad you were able to nail the issue though. I HATE chasing the devil in my rig whenever he rears his ugly head. Makes enjoying the music somewhat aggravating and like yourself, I just shut it down and leave it off for a while. That usually gives me a chance to reflect on what changes I made without fixing something that was not broken and having yet another devil appear, compounding the issue.......What I noticed the most was that screaming guitars didn't sound right, very harsh and I had listening fatigue after a while, which never happened before with this rig......
My last devil was a power related issue as well. New cord(s) and new outlets fixed that. Let's just hope there is no devil when I get the speakers back from all of the work that's being done to them.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Glad you found the issue. Sometimes just making one change at a time can save a lot of consternation.Home Theater
Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
Two Channel
Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV -
...it was some sort of three legged Shunyata or something.
Coming soon to an adult venue near you, F1nut and the Three Legged ShunyataWristwatch--->Crisco -
So bottom line,cables DO matter.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
I can sympathize with the ear thing. If I have any kind of allergies or sinus crap going on I don't even try critical listening. A plugged up head makes things sound to different. Like right now.
On the plus side I'm kinda glad I'm not to the point of worrying about cable elevators.
I look forward to your results once you figure it out.Up
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
Sometimes just making one change at a time can save a lot of consternation.
Ed Zachary!
Thanks for bringing that up as I meant to. It's one of the golden rules and I knew that.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I would like to see a picture of your rig and your hair
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polkfarmboy wrote: »I would like to see a picture of your rig and your hair
Ok, but then I'd have to kill you. :twisted:Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
After a healthy listening session I turned my attention to the 1 meter power cord. Getting my meter on it I notice that the ground pin, which is removable, is giving funny readings. Well what do you know, the pin is loose. I'm thinking that unless there is something else wrong with this cord that the loose ground pin was the cause of the distortion.
Don't ask me if these wooden cable elevators make a difference in the sound. Right now, I don't know and don't care. Maybe down the road I'll take them out to see if I can hear a difference, then again maybe not as the rig sounds glorious again. I will say this, they look nice.
Sometimes I hate this hobby.
Man I'm right there with you. Frustrating as h#ll! The ground issues I had a few months ago just about drove me to distraction.
The other corollary to "change one thing at a time" is, if something malfunctions it usually has something to do with the last change made.
Glad you got it worked out."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
So, earlier today I'm determined to get to the bottom of this and put my thinking cap on. Then it hits me, it's the damn 1 meter power cord, it has to be. I swap the 2 meter cord back in and I'm back in musical heaven again. Just like that I was done chasing the devil.
I think the problem was actually intermittent failures in those old speakers. They've gotta be, what, 20+ years old now?Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »I think the problem was actually intermittent failures in those old ears. They've gotta be, what, 120+ years old now?
Fixed it for you DK...
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
you cant use satin paint on the blocks...dam rookie, its got to be flat black or back flat...although that last coat you put on my stands...magic...pure unadulterated Linda Lovelace clitoris throat magic. Especially the one with the tiger wood. No wonder your Nationwide.
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Just for you Ted, I'll call it semi-flat.
Thanks, I forgot about those bodacious stands, they did come out nice.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
