Solar panels installed today.

BlueFox

Last month I had a shocker of an electric bill from using my new Pass Labs X600.5 amps for a little over two weeks in July. The electric bill was almost $250 more than June's bill. Total was $450 for electricity versus a little over $200 pre-Pass. Anyway, I freaked out, and investigated solar cells as as option.

Well, I took the plunge, and they were installed today. These guys worked hard from 8 AM to about 8:30 PM, and everything is done. However, the solar cells aren't doing anything. I guess they need sunlight.

Anyway, I got a 6.5kW system for 23k (only 1k more than the amps list price, but who pays list). I get a little over 7k tax credit this year for it, making the effective price 16k. Based on past energy use, I should recoup the 16k in 4-5 years, and then start generating income by having no electric bill, and selling excess to PG&E. At least that's the plan. Anyway, now the amps are cooking, the AC is running, and tomorrow I will start compensating for tonight's excess.

chumlie

Good for you. Can't understand why more people don't go solar if they can.

oldmodman

A few years ago I had my property surveyed for all three available rebates. It would have brought the cost of a 5kw system down to 14K
Then the rebate program ran out of money while I was number 17 in line. When the program was started back up I was informed that my share will increase to 45 thousand dollars.

So I don't have solar.

headrott

Congrats BlueFox. 4-5 years will pass quicker than you think, and you will be making money. Enjoy the tunes sir.

Mike Reeter

BlueFox wrote: »

Last month I had a shocker of an electric bill from using my new Pass Labs X600.5 amps for a little over two weeks in July. The electric bill was almost $250 more than June's bill. Total was $450 for electricity versus a little over $200 pre-Pass. Anyway, I freaked out, and investigated solar cells as as option.

Well, I took the plunge, and they were installed today. These guys worked hard from 8 AM to about 8:30 PM, and everything is done. However, the solar cells aren't doing anything. I guess they need sunlight.

Anyway, I got a 6.5kW system for 23k (only 1k more than the amps list price, but who pays list). I get a little over 7k tax credit this year for it, making the effective price 16k. Based on past energy use, I should recoup the 16k in 4-5 years, and then start generating income by having no electric bill, and selling excess to PG&E. At least that's the plan. Anyway, now the amps are cooking, the AC is running, and tomorrow I will start compensating for tonight's excess.

WOW, Do you attribute the huge jump in your electric usage solely to the Pass amps, or was it a combo of the amps. and maybe much warmer weather? Either way, I can see why you would crap a brick when the light bill came due.

Solar power looks to be the way, just wish it wasn't soo expensive up front. I know it's an investment that should pay off in time, we took advantage of the 30% tax credit and installed Geo Thermal Heat/Cool four years ago and it's well on it's way to paying itself off in energy savings.

tonyb

Cool bro, glad your on a path to save some coin .

We already credit PFB with being the CEO of Monsanto, you must be a mid executive at Apple with all the coinage flying out the door. :cheesygrin:

I still haven't connected all the dots yet in this Solar push thing. If you sit back and look, on the surface it appears to be a win-win for the private user and the power company. But....I look at it a tad differently. The power company has you invest in the equipment, the installation, pay to maintain that equipment. You then sell back an unused portion. So the power company with no outlay of cash, no investment, will get some electricity for penny's on the dollar. A win for them. You, after your investment pays for itself can actually start making money, little as it is, but some is better than none. A win for the private user.

In essence, you become a re-seller of power, possibly prone to all regulations or future regulations others have to abide by. I'm not sure where the rub will come in, but I know it will. Why ? Because doing with less is not the motto of governing bodies. If less taxes are paid because of less energy usage, it has to be made up somewhere else.....or create new ones.

Regardless, for the time being all that matters is your saving yourself some coinage and that's everyone's goal.....at least it should be. The more disposable income in one's pocket the better I always say.

mhardy6647

Mike Reeter wrote: »

WOW, Do you attribute the huge jump in your electric usage solely to the Pass amps, or was it a combo of the amps. and maybe much warmer weather? Either way, I can see why you would crap a brick when the light bill came due.

Good question :-)

Solar power looks to be the way, just wish it wasn't soo expensive up front. I know it's an investment that should pay off in time, we took advantage of the 30% tax credit and installed Geo Thermal Heat/Cool four years ago and it's well on it's way to paying itself off in energy savings.

All kinds of incentives... but the playing field seems sort of "Wild West" to me... sort of like aluminum siding salesmen of the 1960s :-)

We put 2.4 kW on the new house and have been banking energy almost since day one.
Not enough for 100% of our needs and we didn't opt for any storage media (although eventual acquisition of a plug-in hybride would, in essence, provide storage capacity on wheels!) but, so far, we're pleased. Also have solar augmented water heating for domestic and heat.

Strong Bad

I've been thinking of going solar in the coming years. My house is unobstructed with the back pointing south/east. If both sides of the roof were covered, they'd get hit from sunup to nearly sundown. The thought of getting off the grid and selling back to BG&E is very enticing.

BlueFox

Mike Reeter wrote: »

WOW, Do you attribute the huge jump in your electric usage solely to the Pass amps, or was it a combo of the amps. and maybe much warmer weather?

Pretty much. The amps were the only difference. The weather here has been cooler than average since July 5th. However, I did run the AC constantly while the amps were on. Part of the process with buying the solar was providing them with data so they can use MBA voodoo to rationalize the purchase. I downloaded my monthly electric bill from 2009 to now into a CVS format for them to use, and July was the winner for useage.

pearsall001

Smart move. Are they using micro-inverters for the panels.

Polkersince85

My power bill was $65 last month. Hard to justify going solar. Just turn stuff off.

obieone

My electric bill has jumped quite a bit in the past years, due to cost overruns at VC Summer. Scanna is stating they're not passing on the costs, but that's BS.
Unfortunately, solar STILL isn't at a price point for install vs. return that's favorable.

BlueFox

pearsall001 wrote: »

Smart move. Are they using micro-inverters for the panels.

I believe so. That word has been used a bit.

BlueFox

The salesman was just here checking how things are working, and I do have micro-inverters versus serial. I am at peak power producing now. With the amps off, and the coffee pot on, I am putting 4.5kW back into the grid. With amps on I am putting 3.x back into the grid. Turn the AC on, and I become a consumer. So, the AC stays off unless it gets over 80 inside, or its Friday or Saturday night, and I want to keep my noise inside, and the neighbor's noise outside.

BlueFox

So, I'm sitting here, thinking of the free electricity PG&E is getting (they need to swap the meter with one that registers what I am generating), and I realized I need to be using electricity now, not tonight. So the washing machine and dryer is in use, and the oven is baking chicken for 3 dinners next week. Next it will be broiling a steak to make 5 lunches next week.

I hope PG&E gets their rate increase approved each year. The more they charge, the more I make. :biggrin:

DarqueKnight

BlueFox wrote: »

Last month I had a shocker of an electric bill from using my new Pass Labs X600.5 amps for a little over two weeks in July. The electric bill was almost $250 more than June's bill. Total was $450 for electricity versus a little over $200 pre-Pass. Anyway, I freaked out, and investigated solar cells as as option.

Your electricity bill was a shocker for me too.

Here is the analysis of my pre and post X600.5 electricity usage:



Your X600.5s should be drawing between 850 to 900 watts at idle for the pair. Leaving them on 24/7 should add about 600 kWhs to your electricity bill. Multiply that by whatever your power company is charging per kWh and that should give you your expected monthly increase. I wonder if something else isn't coincidentally responsible for the drastic increase. It is inconceivable to me that running the X600.5s for two weeks could more than double your utility bill, unless your kWh rate is a huge multiple of mine.

As you can see from my power usage analysis, I saw an approximate 600 kWh increase in the month after the X600.5s were installed. Even during the summer months of June 2013 and July 2013, when my central air was running 24/7, my electricity bills were not out of line with the same months during the previous two years.

It would be worthwhile to get something like the P3 Kill-A-Watt P4400 meter and measure how much power each of the X600.5s is consuming. They are available from Amazon for under $30. If the X600.5s are drawing power within spec and that amount of power cannot account for the additional kWhs used, then something else must be going on.

Are you using any power conditioning equipment with the X600.5s?

BlueFox

The increase in the electric bill is a combination of the amps, and the AC running to keep the inside temp down. Now I suffer a higher inside temp, and have a fan oscillating in the room. That hasn't really interfered to much with listening.

Our electric rates are tiered. There is a base quantity at the lowest rate, and as you go over that baseline there is an associated increase. This my June 22 to July 23 bill. I installed the amps on July 13, so there was only about 11 days with the amps on this bill.

I used 1,604 Kwh. Last year I used 1,310 Kwh during the same number of days. It breaks down like this.

Baseline - 352Kwh @ $0.13230
101-130% of Baseline - 105.6Kwh @ $0.15040
131-200% of Baseline - 246.4Kwh @ $0.31114
201-300% of Baseline - 352.0Kwh @ $0.35114
Over 300% of Baseline - 548.0Kwh @ $0.35114

Total equals $455.13 electricity. :eek:

The bill breaks down into these categories.

Generation. $126.46
Transmission. $27.13
Distribution. $116.23
Public purpose programs. $23.29
Nuclear decommissioning. $0.81
DWR bond charge. $7.91
Ongoing CTC $6.10
Energy cost recovery. $0.31-
Conservation incentive. $147.51

BlueFox

Lasareath wrote: »

Your roof will charge my car in 4 hours.

But the 3,500 mile extension cord makes it cost prohibitive.

heiney9

BlueFox wrote: »

Pretty much. The amps were the only difference. The weather here has been cooler than average since July 5th. However, I did run the AC constantly while the amps were on. Part of the process with buying the solar was providing them with data so they can use MBA voodoo to rationalize the purchase. I downloaded my monthly electric bill from 2009 to now into a CVS format for them to use, and July was the winner for useage.

So the amps themselves didn't consume that much more, just having to run the a/c made your bill go up. Glad you finally clarified that. Your initial post was very misleading and confusing. But solar is the way to go even though the initial outlay is costly.

H9

BlueFox

heiney9 wrote: »

So the amps themselves didn't consume that much more, just having to run the a/c made your bill go up. Glad you finally clarified that. Your initial post was very misleading and confusing. But solar is the way to go even though the initial outlay is costly.

H9

Well, these amps and AC go hand-in-hand. I also ran the AC before these bad boys arrived. My house is insulated so the heat is trapped inside, and the AC probably runs more because of that. Conversely, in the winter the heating should improve, but that will not help much, since I have gas heat.

DarqueKnight

BlueFox wrote: »

The increase in the electric bill is a combination of the amps, and the AC running to keep the inside temp down. Now I suffer a higher inside temp, and have a fan oscillating in the room. That hasn't really interfered to much with listening.

Our electric rates are tiered. There is a base quantity at the lowest rate, and as you go over that baseline there is an associated increase. This my June 22 to July 23 bill. I installed the amps on July 13, so there was only about 11 days with the amps on this bill.

I used 1,604 Kwh. Last year I used 1,310 Kwh during the same number of days. It breaks down like this.

Baseline - 352Kwh @ $0.13230
101-130% of Baseline - 105.6Kwh @ $0.15040
131-200% of Baseline - 246.4Kwh @ $0.31114
201-300% of Baseline - 352.0Kwh @ $0.35114
Over 300% of Baseline - 548.0Kwh @ $0.35114

Total equals $455.13 electricity. :eek:

Ouch! My utility company does not do tiered rates. My actual kWh rate, inclusive of the power company's fuel costs (generation, transmission, distribution, kitchen sink) is $0.09. Therefore, leaving the X600.5s on 24/7 costs $57.66...and it's worth it.:twisted: In the first month (April 22 to May 22) that I ran the X600.5s full time, my electricity bill break down was as follows:

Electricity 2602 kWh @ $0.09 $234.19
Customer charge $4.46
Street light $2.44
Gas Service $19.55
Storm Surcharge 7.62
Total $268.26

heiney9

Damn, Bluefox your electric rates in Cali are crazy! .31 and .35c per kWh is insane. My rate here in IL is .0466/kWh and if I take my entire bill which includes delivery, facilities, metering charges and taxes it comes to a total breakdown of .1175c per kWh.

H9

DaveHo

Bluefox, all I can say is, WOW, electric is expensive where you live. I pay 0.75/Kwh no matter how much I use. At your rates my monthly bill would easily top a grand. I like it cold in the house.

tonyb

heiney9 wrote: »

Damn, Bluefox your electric rates in Cali are crazy!
H9

How about it.....man that's crazy expensive.

DarqueKnight

BlueFox wrote: »

I used 1,604 Kwh. Last year I used 1,310 Kwh during the same number of days. It breaks down like this.

Baseline - 352Kwh @ $0.13230
101-130% of Baseline - 105.6Kwh @ $0.15040
131-200% of Baseline - 246.4Kwh @ $0.31114
201-300% of Baseline - 352.0Kwh @ $0.35114
Over 300% of Baseline - 548.0Kwh @ $0.35114

Total equals $455.13 electricity. :eek:

My May 2013 bill, for 2602 Kwh at your rates would have been:

Baseline - 352Kwh @ $0.13230 = $46.57
101-130% of Baseline - 105.6Kwh @ $0.15040 = $15.88
131-200% of Baseline - 246.4Kwh @ $0.31114 = $76.66
201-300% of Baseline - 352.0Kwh @ $0.35114 = $123.60
Over 300% of Baseline - 1546.0Kwh @ $0.35114 = $542.86

Total equals $805.57 electricity. Included in the total is the extra 618 Kwh from running the X600.5s 24/7 would have cost $217.

My electricity cost at your rates for the month of July 2013 would have been $1,341.06 for 4127 Kwh.

BlueFox

Which is why solar is a good investment here. Sell PG&E electricity during the day at higher usage rates, and consume at night at lower rates. Of course, until I get the new meter, and switch to time of use pricing, I am giving PG&E free electricity.

Sherardp

Solar is good stuff, I've seen more return than anything else. My system is also a 6.5 KW system from Panasonic. Awesome investment.

WLDock

BlueFox wrote: »

Which is why solar is a good investment here. Sell PG&E electricity during the day at higher usage rates, and consume at night at lower rates. Of course, until I get the new meter, and switch to time of use pricing, I am giving PG&E free electricity.

Yes, the Cali Bay area is leading the pack for a reason. Look at this Bay Area map of solar installations: http://sfenergymap.org/


http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/

BlueFox

Lots of solar in foggy San Francisco. I hope I get my new meter this week or next. I hate giving PG&E all this free electricity. At least I can run the AC and stereo during the day for free.

dpowell

Power usage was a big reason I sold my three old Parasound HCA 1200's and bought a five-channel amp with an auto off feature. I do have solar now so I don't know what my actual savings are by making that change. I just know that I'd rather run the air conditioner when it's 95 degrees out than run my power amps 24/7.

I ended up leasing a 9.1kw system which is fully warranted (including the inverter) for 20 years. I'm not out a dime anytime something breaks during that time period. Should save upwards of six figures for an initial upfront investment of just over $15k.

tonyb

dpowell wrote: »

Power usage was a big reason I sold my three old Parasound HCA 1200's and bought a five-channel amp with an auto off feature. I do have solar now so I don't know what my actual savings are by making that change. I just know that I'd rather run the air conditioner when it's 95 degrees out than run my power amps 24/7.

I ended up leasing a 9.1kw system which is fully warranted (including the inverter) for 20 years. I'm not out a dime anytime something breaks during that time period. Should save upwards of six figures for an initial upfront investment of just over $15k.

Let me see if I understand this. You invested 15g's and you don't know what return that will provide ? I can find a few people on wall street that want to talk to you.

Seriously...6 figures ? That's a minimum 100,000 bucks. I'd say your stroking it a bit my friend. Here's how I do the math. 15g's invested, savings will have to be estimated but for giggles lets say you save 100 bucks a month. That's 1200 a year, and would take about 12.5 years to recapture that investment. In other words, to see any gains.
To realize a 6 figure savings would take 83 years.....plus the initial 12.5 years, that's 95 years. I want to get on your program of life expectancy then.
My question is, what other investments would you make with 15g's that you would be comfortable not seeing any gains for that length of time ? I know my answer would be "none".