Wtf!!!!! Really????

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

What is the problem? Did they leave out Creationism and teach evolution instead?

Read it dude, more so about global warming, indoctrination into the "one world government ", sustainability and regulations needed, etc. Agenda 21 written all over it.

tonyb

Cnh,

I have no doubt many of your students do not have a thought of their own. How could they ? They have no interest in it to begin with. They are the followers of the world, told what to believe, who's good and evil. You yourself are one who partakes in that process as a teacher are you not ? Not saying all teachers teach one side of the coin but many do. Instilling in kids to do their own research from various sources would seem the thing to do.

As far as the video John posted, and I posted earlier, it's a matter of just accepting the thought process of whats going on. Those are not just that womans thoughts, but many who are in positions of power within our education system. I guess if someone said the sky is blue, someone else would argue thats not what they ment. Yes, what this woman said is what she means.

It's a process that eats away at the current system little by little, not that the current system is anything to brag about either. Many would say their concerns are to go back to teaching the basics, while leaving the parenting to the parents, and leaving out the politics and agendas. Common core, and this woman in the video go exactly in the opposite direction most would like to see their schools become. Anybody ask for this....vote on this ? Not that I recall. Anyone give their ok to have their kids social security numbers, grades, personal likes/dislikes handed over to a corporate elite ? Nobody asked me....any of you ? At some point, you have to look at this stuff for what it is and not shrug it off to conspiracy theorys or tin foil hat junk. Otherwise you wake up one day and go WTF happened ?

Drenis

steveinaz wrote: »

Never fails...that lately everytime there is a spirited debate on topics such as these, you start the name calling. Is anyones' opinion that doesn't align with yours "ignorant?" Maybe some self-reflection is in order?

There's a bigger picture here, than a bag of chips. It has to do with school interference with home up-bringing, and school "authorities" who arrogantly think they know better than parents, how to raise a child. This whole idea of "we're gonna treat all you parents like imbeciles, because a few are" doesn't wash with me, and I didn't tolerate it when my children were school age, and I don't think current parents should be tolerating it either.

You know Steve, I really am surprised to see you stoop so low to your choice of words. Self-reflection? You have some nerve.

Now can you show me where I called who a what?

Get bent buddy! You just lost any respect I had for you as a member here.

nooshinjohn

PSOVLSK wrote: »

Is the video that John posted not just saying the age old adage that it takes a village to raise a kid? I don't think it was stated the best way, but that's what I took from it.

No... the video clearly states that children ultimately belong to the state, and that parents and family members around them are entrusted by the state to care for them. Your perspective could also "depend on what your definition of the word "IS", is". It has already happened where CPS(child "protective" services) have taken kids from their homes for being obese and other issues that fall well short of traditional guidelines. I can see a day where allowing your kid to do anything even remotely considered risky, like riding a snowmobile or ATV on your own property will be considered endangerment by the state.

This same woman incidentally is also on video saying that infants are just "things in a uterus" and are "expensive if allowed to become human beings", to paraphrase.

It should be clear as a bright sunny day what is happening here, but sadly those same educators concerned about a few potato chips could care less.

Critical thinking is a dead subject these days, and the kool-aid is plentiful. The time has come to stop listening to what the lips are saying and see what deeds are being done instead.

schwarcw

The media has given us the government that we have via their political bend on the Nation's issues and trash talking the candidates.

The media has also given us the food we eat via advertising, etc.

The media has given our youth and nation our values (or lack off) sexual content, drug use violence as fun, no religion in programing, glamorizing celebrities, on and on . . . .

Anybody seeing a trend?

cnh

tonyb wrote: »

Cnh,

I have no doubt many of your students do not have a thought of their own. How could they ? They have no interest in it to begin with. They are the followers of the world, told what to believe, who's good and evil. You yourself are one who partakes in that process as a teacher are you not ? Not saying all teachers teach one side of the coin but many do. Instilling in kids to do their own research from various sources would seem the thing to do.

As far as the video John posted, and I posted earlier, it's a matter of just accepting the thought process of whats going on. Those are not just that womans thoughts, but many who are in positions of power within our education system. I guess if someone said the sky is blue, someone else would argue thats not what they ment. Yes, what this woman said is what she means.

It's a process that eats away at the current system little by little, not that the current system is anything to brag about either. Many would say their concerns are to go back to teaching the basics, while leaving the parenting to the parents, and leaving out the politics and agendas. Common core, and this woman in the video go exactly in the opposite direction most would like to see their schools become. Anybody ask for this....vote on this ? Not that I recall. Anyone give their ok to have their kids social security numbers, grades, personal likes/dislikes handed over to a corporate elite ? Nobody asked me....any of you ? At some point, you have to look at this stuff for what it is and not shrug it off to conspiracy theorys or tin foil hat junk. Otherwise you wake up one day and go WTF happened ?

I pretty much use a version of the Socratic method in my class. Yes, there are a FEW things that I cannot "pretend" have TWO sides because the SCIENCE is clear on what is the case, but when it comes to social topics and politics, I allow everyone their opinion with NO immediate attack from me. I encourage them to argue with each other, and I occasionally step in and add a few flies to the ointment. Certainly there are readings by experts in the area but students are encouraged to THINK about what they "believe".

I also think that PSVOLSK is correct in his views above. You guys are too "threatened" by anything left of center. And in some cases left of the extreme right.

I listen to people like Limbaugh and Beck spout out things that occasionally make M H-Perry sound like Einstein? lol This woman is a feminist, an African American and a Professor. You would think she might "know" a little something about those areas, no? Or are we going to silence any and all feminists of color because "WE" label them as Commies and are afraid of them?

I thought we allowed debate and difference of opinion in the U.S. I know "I" do in class. Let me give you an example. I teach a class on Utopian societies and literature. In that class I propose a series of models. Conservative and Radical thinkers are read (neither is a stranger to Utopias--see Mr. Beck's Independence, USA, as an example). I have people read Plato and St. Augustine to start with. The philosopher's utopia vs. the religious sense of a Kingdom of God (City of God). They read More's Utopia (Thomas More coins the term), they read Rousseau but also Hobbes, and so on.

Last term we had a healthy debate in class: we had your Free Market boys--survival of the fittest crowd--(even though scientifically that is pretty much an unsupported hypothesis--no one really believes in Social Darwinism these days!), a few hardcore Libertarians, a couple of Christians, some feminists, some progressives, etc. And frankly, the discussion, moderated by yours truly, remained civil. I KEPT IT SO! But I did not let anything which could NOT be supported with evidence and fact fly around as TRUTH!

In the tradition of that revolutionary theorist who most of you would call a Communist but was NOT, Marcuse. I instituted "negative thinking". Negative thinking NEVER takes what is as the ONLY way things can be but asks you to think, criticize, reform and make things "better". Can anyone say that the way things are or even the way things "were" is/was (with Pangloss) the best of all possible worlds? I think not. That's why we debate and discuss things. As an anthropologist, I have studied dozens upon dozens of societies and cultures and lived in at least THREE outside my own in the U.S. Contrast is important in terms of actually being able to see the pluses and minuses of your own original culture. Without it you're, as Hegel suggests, looking for a black cow in a coal mine! Good Luck on finding it!

One of my favorite quotes on this comes from Ernest Becker who said:

In a democracy the citizens are the artists who open up new reals. The genius of the theoreticians of democracy is that they understood this, that we must have as many different individuals as possible so as to have as varied a view of reality as possible, for only in this way can we get a rich approximation of it. Everybody has tothink and see for himself or nations are doomed.

cnh

tonyb

Glad to see you encourage the discussion without pre conceived notions CNH. I would imagine as a teacher, you have your own notions,thoughts, beliefs, but to keep them in check without imparting personal influences into discussions must be hard.

Utopian societies have all failed, you know that from history. Ancient Greeks were probably among the first to try such theories. I don't believe one can ever be achieved due to the differences among races and mans inherit faults. Teaching is one hard job when you really on facts, truth or science. All have been manipulated these days. What is the truth....who's facts are we using.....which scientists were paid by who to study what or to make outcomes align with agendas ? Thats the problem with todays information highway, nobody really knows the truth anymore because it's so mixed up and differs between sources.

As long as free thinking is promoted, truth eventually surfaces for each individual, and that still will differ amongst people. There are benefits and downsides to free thinking. Benefits are obvious, but the downside is never having everyone agree on the same thing as truth,facts,science, becomes different things to different people. Thats the allure to other ideologies, one way of thinking so everyone moves in the same direction. Good for some things, terrible for most others. It's not that some are "threatened" by other forms of thinking, it's when those forms of thinking are so removed, so radically different from what made our nation great that people will resist it. Especially when those radical forms of thinking have been tried in the past, present, by others with horrible results. Improving upon a society, no matter the ideology, means trying something new that would have a track record of sorts to move ahead, not failed policies of the past to bring back into the light of day. No matter what it is, freedom will have to be at it's core, nobody here would accept anything less....well, I hope so anyway.

I certainly don't envy you as a teacher, too many fine lines with a variety of students who may or may not be there to learn. Teaching is hard man, I would choke half the students myself.:biggrin:

tonyb

schwarcw wrote: »

The media has given us the government that we have via their political bend on the Nation's issues and trash talking the candidates.

The media has also given us the food we eat via advertising, etc.

The media has given our youth and nation our values (or lack off) sexual content, drug use violence as fun, no religion in programing, glamorizing celebrities, on and on . . . .

Anybody seeing a trend?

That trend has been going on for along time. Only recently has it been put into warp drive making connecting the dots easy as pie. Unfortunately many still roll their eyes at such notions.

steveinaz

I think healthy debate in class is a good thing---and I don't have a problem with opposing views being debated. The Senior High I went to had number of classes in which we debated "hot topics" of the day---the difference was this; not once can I ever remember any of those teachers imposing their opinion on the topic(s). They were very careful to inform us of both sides of the argument, without ever revealing how they felt, personally. Now that is education as it should be; not brainwashing, but letting kids decide for themselves which side of the argument fit their values/beliefs, etc.

Today, there are some teachers out there with a clear agenda, and they should be removed from the classroom. If you can't present material in an unbiased fashion, you've got no business teaching. This all goes back to this notion that "they" know better than you as a parent, how your child should view things.

steveinaz

Exhibit A:

http://news.yahoo.com/dad-furious-finding-crayon-written-paper-florida-4th-124614291.html

BlueFox

cnh wrote: »

I also think that PSVOLSK is correct in his views above. You guys are too "threatened" by anything left of center. And in some cases left of the extreme right.

That is 100% correct. These threads are so amusing because they always bring out the usual right-wing fringe on this site, and they always use it to spout their usual nonsense. Like flies to **** these guys are out in force at the slightest chance to vent. This thread was started due to a confused 6 year old, and continued by those with the same level of understanding how the world and people interact and operate.

It always amazes me how the least bright people always have the answer to every social and scientific issue around. No matter what the issue, if we only listened to them then it would be fixed. I call it the Tom Clancy syndrome. He was an entertaining writer at first whose dementia led him to use his books to try and fix all the world's problems with right wing solutions.

tonyb

Thats where your wrong Fox. You immediately turn it into a right wing verse left wing thing. Instead, you have to ask yourself what you want a teacher or school system to teach. Same with government, if you just ask yourself what exactly it is you expect from your government/leaders, then the answers don't know left or right. If you can do that objectively anyway. Schools are no different. Local control gives parents some input......some, which is better than none under common core principles. Again, what little control parents had over curriculum will be gone. If your good with that, cool, move on. Has nothing to do with right/left but more so right/wrong and who is responsible for what.

God knows, I will never profess to have all the answers to anything. All I can do is speak to what I know works from personal experiences, much like the rest of you. Hopefully we can keep the right/left wing crap out of the discussion and let people draw their own conclusions. Kinda like teaching, good debates equal learning to open minds. Closed minds usually turn into name calling and bashing. What say we leave that part out for the sake of discussion.

nooshinjohn

BlueFox wrote: »

That is 100% correct. These threads are so amusing because they always bring out the usual right-wing fringe on this site, and they always use it to spout their usual nonsense. Like flies to **** these guys are out in force at the slightest chance to vent. This thread was started due to a confused 6 year old, and continued by those with the same level of understanding how the world and people interact and operate.

It always amazes me how the least bright people always have the answer to every social and scientific issue around. No matter what the issue, if we only listened to them then it would be fixed. I call it the Tom Clancy syndrome. He was an entertaining writer at first whose dementia led him to use his books to try and fix all the world's problems with right wing solutions.

Sorry Blue, but this is exactly the kind of post that could derail a civil discussion. In it, you refer to the "usual right-wing fringe"(following the Constitution is NOT "right wing", and fringe is meant to marginalize) You then say that the opinions expressed by believers in Constitutional freedoms are the "usual nonsense". To those that follow the Constitution, nothing is more dear that the freedom of speech. Your words again, are used by those that believe the constitution is a dusty old document to deny those rights.

This thread was started by a father concerned that his six year old daughter had her rights (and by extention, his) rights as a parent infringed upon by a school administrator imposing their will above that of the parent. Another tactic to dismiss Constitutionalists is to try and imply the discussion is not worthy of having to begin with. In this case, if the thread were started due to a six year old girl and nothing more, then why bother???

You begin your last paragraph with the "least bright people", meaning that somehow conservatives are collectively stupid and should be not listened to for anything they would have to add to a civil discourse. Your further dismiss us by calling it the "Tom Clancy Syndrome" implying that conservative thought is somehow a disease. Seeing the truth about where we are headed is not dementia. I would say that to not see what is going on would be blindness, and that IS a medical condition.

The truth is that CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES work each and every time they are tried. A study of history proves that time and time again.

Your post would have really hacked me off this morning, but I see it as a sign of hope. When the left exposes themselves like this, common sense always steps to the fore and prevails.

tonyb

steveinaz wrote: »

I think healthy debate in class is a good thing---and I don't have a problem with opposing views being debated. The Senior High I went to had number of classes in which we debated "hot topics" of the day---the difference was this; not once can I ever remember any of those teachers imposing their opinion on the topic(s). They were very careful to inform us of both sides of the argument, without ever revealing how they felt, personally. Now that is education as it should be; not brainwashing, but letting kids decide for themselves which side of the argument fit their values/beliefs, etc.

Today, there are some teachers out there with a clear agenda, and they should be removed from the classroom. If you can't present material in an unbiased fashion, you've got no business teaching. This all goes back to this notion that "they" know better than you as a parent, how your child should view things.

Spot on Steve, and in my opinion thats where education has taken a turn for the worst. Not that public education was the beaming star of excellence to begin with. Too many hands in the pot, too many cooks in the kitchen, too many agendas being pushed on mushy young minds. So many look to other cultures with praise for what they see, but hold no respect for the American culture and how it is being dilluted, undermined.

Education has many problems that I think are universal that most of us can agree on. Why is it then we never adress those problems and keep just adding to them ? Because like everything else, it all comes down to the same old story of mankind, money and power. Between the unions, government, and control over the context of what your children learn, you the parent are useless in this process....other than your wallet of course.

Face

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The truth is that CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES work each and every time they are tried. A study of history proves that time and time again.

Weren't our Founding Father's views more Libertarian than Conservative?

nooshinjohn

Face wrote: »

Weren't our Founding Father's views more Libertarian than Conservative?

Yes, they were for the most part. That is why we were set up to be a Republic, not a democracy. Libertarian beliefs are the foundation upon which our nation was built. Conservatives believe in staing true to that foundation.

cnh

And on a "lighter" note, but still relevant to the OP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFvOnUJoZ-Y

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TFvOnUJoZ-Y?</iframe&gt;


cnh

cnh

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Yes, they were for the most part. That is why we were set up to be a Republic, not a democracy. Libertarian beliefs are the foundation upon which our nation was built. Conservatives believe in staing true to that foundation.

This is just a test post because I seem to have inadvertently knocked this thread out!

cnh

nooshinjohn

I think we are well over 1 million now...

Is it open season for them yet?

nooshinjohn

...test 123 test...

BlueFox

Test 4,5,6

Face

Remove CNH's second to last post and the thread should be fully viewable again.