How do SDA 2Bs and 1Cs compare?

TennMan

I was enjoying the other thread that compared 1Bs to 2Bs until it got so far off topic about the SDA handbook so I thought I would start this thread to see how the SDA 2B and 1C would compare. I've never heard the 1Cs but looking at them you would think they would be 2Bs times 2. I have a pair of 2Bs and I like them a lot and I will probably have them for a long time but... I was just wondering how they compare to the 1Cs?

I hope this thread discusses differences in how the sound compares instead of differences in specifications.

Mr. Bubbles

My first SDA was my pair of 2A's (though I have heard 2B's I haven't owned a pair). So I thought like you; the 1C's should be those times 2. I have had 2 pairs of 1C's and sadly they do not come close to the 2A's/B's to my ears. Just my take and i do not present this as set in stone.

Mr. Bubbles

To me the 2A/B's a cleaner, more detailed, and have a fuller range with a much deeper bottom end.

TennMan

Thanks Mr. Bubbles for your comments. I expected more people to comment. I don't guess many people have heard both of these models.

westmassguy

TennMan wrote: »

I was enjoying the other thread that compared 1Bs to 2Bs until it got so far off topic about the SDA handbook so I thought I would start this thread to see how the SDA 2B and 1C would compare. I've never heard the 1Cs but looking at them you would think they would be 2Bs times 2. I have a pair of 2Bs and I like them a lot and I will probably have them for a long time but... I was just wondering how they compare to the 1Cs?

I hope this thread discusses differences in how the sound compares instead of differences in specifications.

What? Threads going off-topic, surely you jest

F1nut

Since you already have the 2B's, I strongly recommend you do the TL upgrade along with the other standard tweaks. Once you do, you'll never wonder how they compare because you'll have the better speaker.

Conradicles

I have had 1 set of modded SDA-1C and 2 pair of SDA-2B. The modded 1C had much better mid range and mid bass. However for some odd reason both pair of 2B seemed to hit the deep bass better. Makes no sense to me. Could be that I under powered the 1C. Both great speakers!

TennMan

Conradicles wrote: »

I have had 1 set of modded SDA-1C and 2 pair of SDA-2B. The modded 1C had much better mid range and mid bass. However for some odd reason both pair of 2B seemed to hit the deep bass better. Makes no sense to me. Could be that I under powered the 1C. Both great speakers!

That's really odd. I would have expected the opposite. You would think the 2B's two MW setup would be more controlled and produce a better mid-range and the 1C with the extra drivers would produce better bass. That's the reason I like comparisons like this. I always learn something new.

F1nut wrote: »

Since you already have the 2B's, I strongly recommend you do the TL upgrade along with the other standard tweaks. Once you do, you'll never wonder how they compare because you'll have the better speaker.

Sounds like a great upgrade plan to me. Everyone seems to be very happy with the results. For me the decision is just which caps to use that I can afford. Any suggestions on which caps to get on a retirees budget?

anonymouse wrote: »

I have had the 1Cs and now have a pair of CRS+. The CRS+ are probably much closer to 2Bs, though I have never listened to 2Bs. I prefer the CRS+ to the 1Cs. I find the SDA effect more pronounced and overall presentation is more spatial.

I have both the CRS+ and 2B SDAs. After I get a little more use to the 2Bs I intend to do a comparison between them. Right now I really like my 2Bs with stronger bass, but I know what you mean about the CRS+ having a more pronounced SDA effect. If someone would make a a custom 2B cabinet wide enough to have the same MW spacing and the tweeter between them I'll bet the sound would be amazing!!!

Mr. Bubbles

Conradicles wrote: »

I have had 1 set of modded SDA-1C and 2 pair of SDA-2B. The modded 1C had much better mid range and mid bass. However for some odd reason both pair of 2B seemed to hit the deep bass better. Makes no sense to me. Could be that I under powered the 1C. Both great speakers!

The difference in the bottom end is is a factor of the relationship between the cabinet volume/ driver/ PR surface area. The 2A's and 2B's have the most cabinet and passive to driver of all the other models save for maybe the SRS 2's ( I am not sure of the ratios on those).

westmassguy

TennMan wrote: »

Any suggestions on which caps to get on a retirees budget?

Tenn, for Budget Caps Clarity PX, up from there Sonicaps, or Clarity SA, and Clarity ESAs if you can afford them.
I'm partial to the Sonicap/Mills Resistors, while some prefer the Clarity line. Mundorf MOX resistors are also very good, and less expensive than the Mills.
If you do go Sonicap, wait for their 20% off sale

TennMan

When do Sonicaps go on sale? Is it random or do they have a certain time?

TennMan

I just noticed that Madisound does not offer a 5.8uf clarity cap for the tl upgrade. Is the 5.6uf close enough that you wouldn't notice the difference or is something else needed?

westmassguy

TennMan wrote: »

When do Sonicaps go on sale? Is it random or do they have a certain time?

Various times during the year

headrott

F1nut wrote: »

Since you already have the 2B's, I strongly recommend you do the TL upgrade along with the other standard tweaks. Once you do, you'll never wonder how they compare because you'll have the better speaker.

Yep to this. And I will add; it does depend on the room you have them in (set up). But, based only on the speaker, the 2BTL's are the better speaker.

westmassguy

Tenn, your pm box is full

TennMan

westmassguy wrote: »

Tenn, your pm box is full

Cleared out now.

naturallight

Strange..i would expect the 1C's to be better..all around...but who knows. Plus the 2B's to hit you with more bass...seems very strange..but again who knows.

But the problem is i don't have a set of 2b's or the SRS+ to even get a handle on how they all sound.



The only thing i can tell you for sure about the 1C's is they react more like large scale SRS's....

I've had these for years, and run them off the Onkyo M-504..so there is no problem with power..but the room you put them in, is the killer. I have had to move these around a number of times. I've had to run them in a 12x12 or maybe 12x14 room. There passable.



But once i finished my basement room, which is 17x30....and a carpet that is soo thin it should not be called carpet...LOL So the speakers are really sitting on concrete...LOL

So in the case of the 17x30 room...the 1C's come alive. The bass..depending on the recording...will beat you to a pulp. The SDA "effect" seems to fly all over....It may not be as good as the SRS+ but i can't say as i have not heard them, or the 2B's...so this is just a guess.

So all i can tell you is the 1C's are very room and amp dependent, were the 2B's and SRS+ may not be. Not a great answer granted..but as close as i can come.

nspindel

The 1C is a great speaker, but bigger is not always better. My 4.1TL's remind me of that every time I listen.

brgman

I think the amount of power you plan to throw at the speakers will also come into play.I had a great pair of modded 2B's that sounded terrific but they couldn't handle the juice i threw at them where the 1C's do.

naturallight

I have no good answer at all, why 2B's should sound better then 1C's..according to Polk..the 1 C's should have been the end all be all of that size speaker....meaning the 1B, 2B whatever.

It's as close as you can get to the large scale SRS...BUT maybe thats the problem.

The problem with big **** SRS's..if you don't have a big **** room to put them in..they don't sound that great. The same problem shows up with the 1C's.



The only thing i know or can tell you is the speakers just..run out of air..not the best description i can think of..but..

If you play them at low volume..there ok..if you try and push them close to like10.5 to 11 o'clock...forget it.

They just don't work well at all in a 12x12 or 12x14 enclosed room...they just don't like it.

If you put them in a large open air room...then things change and they sound killer...but.

Are they better then 2B's or SRS+...that...i can't tell you. Only what my 1 C's do.

Schurkey

TennMan wrote: »

Is the 5.6uf close enough that you wouldn't notice the difference or is something else needed?

5.6 is fine. Not perfect, but close enough. The general consensus is that if you're within 5% of the spec value, it's OK.

5.8 * 95% = 5.51

Therefore 5.6 is adequate.

F1nut

I have no good answer at all, why 2B's should sound better then 1C's

It's not that the stock 2B's sound better than stock 1C's, they don't. It's that modded 2BTL's sound better than modded 1C's. This is due to the 2B's being able to use the RD0198-1 tweeter when upgraded to TL's.

brgman

F1nut wrote: »

It's not that the stock 2B's sound better than stock 1C's, they don't. It's that modded 2BTL's sound better than modded 1C's. This is due to the 2B's being able to use the RD0198-1 tweeter when upgraded to TL's.

What are you? Some kind of an audiophile? :twisted:

nspindel

F1nut wrote: »

It's not that the stock 2B's sound better than stock 1C's, they don't. It's that modded 2BTL's sound better than modded 1C's. This is due to the 2B's being able to use the RD0198-1 tweeter when upgraded to TL's.

+1. I owned 1C's and 2BTL's, both done with Sonicaps and Mills. The 2BTL won. It wasn't hands down, the 2B's blew the 1C's away, that's not the case. But the 2B's just edged out the 1C's, and as Jesse said, it's the tweeter. And that's why people are saying the 4.1TL's sound better than the 1C's. I just moved "down" from the 1C's to the 4.1TL's, and I don't feel like I've given anything up.

TennMan

Schurkey wrote: »

5.6 is fine. Not perfect, but close enough. The general consensus is that if you're within 5% of the spec value, it's OK.

5.8 * 95% = 5.51

Therefore 5.6 is adequate.

Thanks for the info! I think I'm going to go with the Sonicaps and they offer the 5.8s.

Mr. Bubbles

F1nut wrote: »

It's not that the stock 2B's sound better than stock 1C's, they don't. It's that modded 2BTL's sound better than modded 1C's. This is due to the 2B's being able to use the RD0198-1 tweeter when upgraded to TL's.

I may be one of the few , But I disagree with the first part of this statement. I do believe the stock 2A's/ B's sound better than the 1C's. But also as described in the rest of the post; being able to TL the 2B's makes them that much better still. However I also am under the belief that the RDO-198 is not too terribly different than the RDO-194 from and audible standpoint. Slightly better, but IMO not by a huge margin. Mods or no mods I would go with the 2B's, the mods (as with all models) just make them even better.

heiney9

1C's are better than 2B's. But room size and gear can be the wild card. There is no gain putting 1C's in a smaller room or under powering them. By the same token, no gain by using the 2B's in a larger room. It's not fair to ask which is better without laying out what you want to do with them and the gear you plan to use.

H9

headrott

F1nut wrote: »

It's not that the stock 2B's sound better than stock 1C's, they don't. It's that modded 2BTL's sound better than modded 1C's. This is due to the 2B's being able to use the RD0198-1 tweeter when upgraded to TL's.

This is exactly correct.

headrott

TennMan wrote: »

Thanks for the info! I think I'm going to go with the Sonicaps and they offer the 5.8s.

IMO, if you can afford the Clarity Cap ESA's, you will enjoy the results more than the Sonicaps. I am absolutely not saying that the Sonicaps aren't good by any means, but the Clarity Cap ESA's are absolutely better as far as detail, imaging, and transparency.

westmassguy

Mr. Bubbles wrote: »

I may be one of the few , But I disagree with the first part of this statement. I do believe the stock 2A's/ B's sound better than the 1C's. But also as described in the rest of the post; being able to TL the 2B's makes them that much better still. However I also am under the belief that the RDO-198 is not too terribly different than the RDO-194 from and audible standpoint. Slightly better, but IMO not by a huge margin. Mods or no mods I would go with the 2B's, the mods (as with all models) just make them even better.

The 2As can be TL'd just like the 2Bs. I've compared the RDO-194s and RDO-198s on the same speaker, with updated crossovers. While not as dramatic as going from the SL2000 to the RDO-194, the difference is none-the-less very noticeable in a very good way.
Much more detail and clarity to my ears.

westmassguy

headrott wrote: »

IMO, if you can afford the Clarity Cap ESA's, you will enjoy the results more than the Sonicaps. I am absolutely not saying that the Sonicaps aren't good by any means, but the Clarity Cap ESA's are absolutely better as far as detail, imaging, and transparency.

The ESAs do provide more apparent detail than the Sonicaps, but to my ears, it's too much, to the point of listening fatigue. I've done several upgrades for customers with the ESAs and Mundorf MOX resistors, but ended up tempering them a bit with Mills MRA-12 Resistors instead of the MOX. The Mills warm them up a bit. To each his own. Both are very fine Capacitors. As with everything, it depends on your own listening tastes.