Studies On Residential Power Line Noise Part 11 - Noise Harvester and Quietline

DarqueKnight
DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
edited April 2013 in 2 Channel Audio
Introduction

PS Audio's Noise Harvester and Audioprism's Quietline are claimed to reduce the noise induced on mains power lines by electromagnetic interference and radio frequency interference. PS Audio does not publish specifications for the Noise Harvester. I found out that the Harvester operated in the 7 kHz to 15 kHz frequency range by searching the PS Audio Internet forum. Audioprism's published specification for the Quietline says it "operates from the middle of the audio band to several hundred megahertz".

The Noise Harvester is claimed to work by gathering and storing noise energy in a capacitor, which is then bled off by an LED. Therefore, electrical noise energy is converted to light. The faster the Noise Harvester's LED blinks, the greater the amount of noise that is being converted to light. It is priced at $99.95.

The Quietline is claimed to work by shunting noise energy from line to neutral. It is priced at $29.99.

001QuietLine-NoiseHarvesterGroups-s_zps6e356d33.jpg
Figure 1. Audioprism's Quietline and PS Audio Noise Harvester power line noise filters.

002OneNH-s_zpsc0c00d20.jpg
Figure 2. Single Noise Harvester plugged into kitchen counter receptacle.

003TwoNHs-s_zpsdaa0824d.jpg
Figure 3. Two Noise Harvesters plugged into kitchen counter receptacle.

004NH-QL-s_zps5eff3469.jpg
Figure 4. Noise Harvester and Quietline plugged into kitchen counter receptacle.

Test Sessions

The Fast Fourier Transform function of a Tektronix TDS 2012 did not show any changes in the powerline's noise spectrum with either the Noise Harvester or the Quietline plugged in. This was expected since the Harvester and Quietline operate far above the 60 Hz power line frequency. PS Audio claims that the more Noise Harvesters are used on an AC circuit, the more noise will be removed. The results from using one to four Noise Harvesters in two of my kitchen counter receptacles (two outlets per receptacle) on three different days are shown in table 1. My home is wired so that lights and receptacles are on different circuits. There are four receptacles on this particular AC circuit: three above the kitchen counter and one below the counter which serves the disposal. Nothing else was plugged into the receptacles other than the disposal, Harvesters and Quietline.

Blinks were counted for 1 minute and trials were timed with a digital topwatch. Each trial scenario was repeated five times over a 45 minute period on each day. There were differences in the amount of blinks recorded on different days, but the number of blinks recorded on successive trial scenarios during a 45 minute period on the same day were constant.

NoiseHarvesterBlinkingResponseTrials-s_zps251f1a01.jpg

I expected to see the blinking rate decrease with each successive Noise Harvester plugged in. However, there was only a decrease in the blinking rate when going from one Harvester to two. Going from two to three or three to four Harvesters produced no further reduction in blink rate.

When a Quietline was plugged into the same receptacle as a Noise Harvester, the Harvester's blink rate increased.

Two Channel Audio System Listening Evaluations

Two musical selections were used for all listening trials:

A musical selection of average recording quality (clarity, detail, spatiality, dynamics): Track twelve ("When We Come Together") from Jakiem Joyner's "Lil Man Soul" CD. Specific "markers" that I use to judge sound quality as rendered on different equipment are the electric guitar crack at the very beginning, the high hat strike at 00:06, a low pitched scraping sound at 00:24, a high pitched scraping sound at 00:59, and the electric guitar notes at the right of the sound stage beginning at 04:24.

A musical selection of excellent recording quality (clarity, detail, spatiality, dynamics): Track two ("Lisa") from Stanley Clarke's "At the Movies" CD . It has a growling electric bass at the intro, sharp drum rim shots throughout, well recorded electric lead guitar transient notes, and airy background vocals, although it is primarily an instrumental song.

Listening evaluations were done with two different preamplifiers: a Pass Labs X0.2 and its next generation, and higher resolution, successor, the XP-30.

My two channel system is fed by three dedicated 20 amp AC circuits, which are terminated by PS Audio Soloist Premier SE in-wall passive power conditioners. Each monoblock power amp is on a separate circuit. The third circuit feeds a PS Audio P10 AC regenerator, which feeds the source components and line level and phono preamplifiers. A Noise Harvester or a Quietline was plugged into the upper outlet of each Soloist receptacle during specific trials.

Noise Harvester Trials With The X0.2 Preamp

Music sounded louder and clearer. I could stand next to the left speaker and hear the change in clarity of the drum rim shots as I plugged in and unplugged the Harvester from the receptacle feeding the left monoblock power amp. There was a little more fluidity and articulation in the electric bass notes.

Quietline Trials With The X0.2 Preamp

Music sounded louder and clearer than with the Harvesters. I could stand next to the left speaker and hear the change in clarity of the drum rim shots as I plugged in and unplugged the Quietline from the receptacle feeding the left monoblock power amp. The reverberent echos (in the left channel) of sounds in the right channel were easier to hear. There was also a small increase in tactile sensation, as felt through my armrests, that was not there with the Harvesters.

Noise Harvester and Quietline Trials With The XP-30 Preamp

The level of clarity and detail of the XP-30 without either the Harvesters or the Quietlines was greater than the clarity and detail of the X0.2 with the Harvesters and Quietlines. When the Harvesters were plugged in, I did not perceive a difference in clarity or detail, but there was a small increase in apparent loudness, which indicated a lowering of the noise floor. With the Quietlines plugged in, there was a greater increase in apparent loudness over the Harvesters. Pass Labs claims that the XP-30 has significantly better EMI shielding than the X0.2. Compared to the X0.2, it appeared that the XP-30 was not as sensitive to the types of noise that the Harvester and Quietline filter out.

The rate of Noise Harvester blinking was 600 blinks per minute at the left monoblock's AC receptacle, 150 blinks per minute at the right monoblock's AC receptacle, and 58 blinks per minute at the P10 AC regenerator's AC receptacle.

Home Theater Audio And Video Trials

My home theater system has high video resolution and moderate audio resolution.

I did not perceive any visual performance improvement from using either the Noise Harvesters or Quietlines on the two dedicated 20 amp AC circuits that feed the home theater system. Both AC circuits are terminated by a PS Audio Soloist Premier SE in-wall passive power conditioner. The video equipment is fed by a PS Audio P5 AC regenerator. Test patterns and the "Quantum of Solace" Blu-ray were used for video evaluations.

Both the Noise Harvester and Quietline caused an increase in apparent sound level and an increase in clarity and detail. For example, the MGM lion's roar prior to the start of "Quantum of Solace" was louder, heavier, more growly and more detailed with the Harvester and more so with the Quietline. The two CD's used in the two channel evaluation, as well as the "Quantum of Solace" Blu-ray, were used in the home theater audio evaluation. The audio equipment is fed by a PS Audio P10 AC regenerator.

Video evaluation was done at the viewing location and by comparing pixel level screen shots using the method shown in figures 6, 7, and 8 of this thread.

The rate of Noise Harvester blinking was 106 blinks per minute at the P5 AC regenerator's AC receptacle and 600 blinks per minute at the P10 AC regenerator's AC receptacle.

Conclusion

QLInstalled-s_zps135ec6f3.jpg
Figure 5. Quietlines plugged into two of three dedicated 20 amp AC circuits feeding my two channel audio
system.


The Quietlines provided higher performance at one-third the cost of the Harvesters in my two channel audio and home theater systems. The Quietlines were retained and the Noise Harvesters were sent back. With a better EMI-shielded preamp (the XP-30 compared to the X0.2) in a high resolution two channel audio system, neither the Noise Harvester nor the Quietline provided an improvement in clarity and detail. Each of them did lower the noise floor which resulted in an apparent increase in sound level. Neither the Quietline nor the Harvester improved video performance in the home theater system, although small improvements in clarity, detail and the weight of sound were realized.

I expect that better results with the Harvesters may be realized in cases where several of them can be used on multiple receptacles on the same AC circuit. Of course, that is not an option with a dedicated circuit with only a single receptacle. The multiple unit performance advantage may also be true of the Quietlines.
"So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
Post edited by DarqueKnight on
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Comments

  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited March 2013
    Associated Equipment Two Channel Audio System

    Pass Labs X0.2 preamplifier
    Pass Labs XP-30 preamplifier
    Parasound Halo JC 1 monoblock power amplifiers (800 watts continuous into 4 ohms)
    Cary Audio CD 306 Pro Version SACD player
    AudioQuest Sky XLR interconnects
    AudioQuest Everest speaker cables
    Polk Audio SDA SRS 1.2TL loudspeakers (extensively modified, 4 ohms nominal impedance)
    PS Audio P10 AC Regenerator
    PS Audio AC 12 and Premier SC power cords

    Associated Equipment Home Theater System

    Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD 60" Plasma HDTV
    Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Blu-ray Disc Player
    Sony TA-P9000ES Analog 5.1 Multi-channel Preamp
    Three Adcom GFA-5500 Power Amps (350 wpc into 4 ohms) for Front, Center, and Surround Speakers
    Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable
    Monster Cable Z2 Reference Speaker Cables
    Monster Cable Z100i Interconnects
    PS Audio xStream Statement SC Cords for Preamps, Amps, Blu-ray Player, Tuner, CD Player and TV
    PS Audio PerfectWave AC-5 Power Cable for PerfectWave P5 and P10 AC Regenerators
    PS Audio PerfectWave P5 AC Regenerator
    PS Audio PerfectWave P10 AC Regenerator
    Polk Audio SDA SRS Front Speakers (extensively modified, 4 ohms nominal impedance)
    Dual Polk Audio LSi9 Center Channel Speakers
    Polk Audio LSi15 Surround Speakers

    References

    PS-Audio-Noise-Harvester Review - Club Polk

    Audioprism Quietline

    PS Audio Noise Harvester
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • zane77
    zane77 Posts: 1,696
    edited April 2013
    Thanks for the great review, I have Ben interested in how these devices performed.
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
    Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,217
    edited April 2013
    Man, now you have me debating purchasing a couple of these for my setup.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited April 2013
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Have you tried them with a Dimmer on the same circuit or some sort of motor, like a fan or drill?, I don't think you'll be able to count the number of flashes because with those devices in the circuit the flashes go so fast that it almost becomes a solid stream of light.

    My lights and receptacles are on different circuits. I did observe a Harvester's blink rate with a vacuum cleaner, Dremel, and 1/3 HP drill plugged into the same receptacle:

    Harvester blink rate with nothing else on the AC circuit: 64 blinks per minute.

    Harvester blink rate with Dremel on highest speed setting (10/10): 104 blinks per minute. The blink rate did not start increasing until the Dremel's speed setting went past 6/10.

    Harvester blink rate with 1/3 HP drill a highest speed: 116 blinks per minute.

    Harvester blink rate with Dyson DC 14 vacuum cleaner: 184 blinks per minute.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • evhudsons
    evhudsons Posts: 1,161
    edited April 2013
    Nice! Dang informative. My next step is to get dedicated circuits too, but these would certainly help in the meantime.

    Polk Audio SDA CRS+ (4.1TL by Trey, Larry's Rings)-
    SDA SRS2-Parasound HCA1500ax2/1000
    Yamaha xa1000-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround back
    NHTsuper1's surround
    Nad2700-sub, AdcomGFA-555 -Magnepan SMG
    Parasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
    Marantz 2230/B&Kst140- outdoor B&W/Bose/Parasound/KefC75/c40/Polksub
    Technics 1200mk2
    Gamertag: IslandBerserker
    I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,217
    edited April 2013
    evhudsons wrote: »
    but these would certainly help in the meantime.

    Yup especially for those of us renting

    DK: Do you think this would make any difference for folks with say all their gear on a APC H15?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,477
    edited April 2013
    Thanks Ray for the write up. I have seen and heard of the PS Audio Noise Harvesters, but where did you buy the Audioprism's Quietline's from? I know I can probably look it up, but am interested in where you purchased them from. I take it they were $29.99 because you purchased at least 8 of them?
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,994
    edited April 2013
    Thanks DK. Didn't know about the Quietline. Will give it a try and compare to the 4x Harvesters (think I paid $50ish per for those).
    Study: Roon * ProJect Stream Box Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
    Audio: PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Belles 20a * Pass Aleph 30 - Zu Omen DW * Sunfire Sig II - Polk SRS 2.3tl * PSAudio PP3 * MIT S3
    Den: Sonore ultraRendu * Cary xCiter * Dayens Menuetto * KEF LS50
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited April 2013
    headrott wrote: »
    Thanks Ray for the write up. I have seen and heard of the PS Audio Noise Harvesters, but where did you buy the Audioprism's Quietline's from? I know I can probably look it up, but am interested in where you purchased them from. I take it they were $29.99 because you purchased at least 8 of them?

    Yes, Elusivedisc.com is having a sale:

    $39.99 reg. price.
    $34.99 each if you buy 4.
    $29.99 each if you buy 8.

    http://www.elusivedisc.com/AUDIOPRISM-QUIETLINE-MK3-POWER-FILTER-1-EACH/productinfo/AP-QUIETL1/
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited April 2013
    Yup especially for those of us renting

    DK: Do you think this would make any difference for folks with say all their gear on a APC H15?

    I don't know. Does the APC H15 specifically shield against induced noise from EMI/RFI? If your location is not affected by this kind of environmental electrical noise, you may not hear a benefit.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited April 2013
    vcwatkins wrote: »
    Thanks DK. Didn't know about the Quietline. Will give it a try and compare to the 4x Harvesters (think I paid $50ish per for those).

    I look forward to your comparison results.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,477
    edited April 2013
    Think I will be buy one to try out. Thanks again Ray for the inspiration.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,217
    edited April 2013
    I don't know. Does the APC H15 specifically shield against induced noise from EMI/RFI? If your location is not affected by this kind of environmental electrical noise, you may not hear a benefit.

    Its supposed to per the product page (here)
    Attenuates EMI/RFI line noise that can cause data errors and keyboard lockups, ensuring better performance of protected equipment

    However we have been getting a little bit of noise in my main system on my 5 channel Carver when the receiver is on with no source selected. Once the receiver is off, noise goes away entirely. I have everything in the HT on that H15 but an Ethernet line comes in from a wall jack and connects to a network switch and I have had issues with the Uverse service before. I am wondering if the Ethernet line which is not connected to a noise/emi filter anywhere could be the culprit. There are a bunch of jacks in the room, one of them being a switched light that controls 2 lights connected across long extension cords and I dont know which jacks are on which lines (fuse box not labeled)

    Using standard 3 way light bulbs in all my lights and on the wall the HT is connected too there are 2 outlets only 1 of the 4 being used (by the H15).
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited April 2013
    Its supposed to per the product page (here)

    It is possible that the APC could use a little help in your environment. It's worth a try.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Jhayman
    Jhayman Posts: 1,548
    edited April 2013
    Excellent review Thank You.
    I'm very glad to see that there are products out there that out perform comparable products at 1/3 the cost..
    ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,217
    edited April 2013
    It is possible that the APC could use a little help in your environment. It's worth a try.

    That was kinda my thought and with a cost of under 30, its not a biggie if it flops.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,193
    edited April 2013
    Thank you for the review , I call this part of the back bone of a system. Clean power , Surge , Line conditioning and Voltage Stabilization are all key. I also surge Ethernet and cable lines (NON VERIZON) to eliminate any possible threat.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • dscheer
    dscheer Posts: 47
    edited April 2013
    Great info as always DK. I have 3 ea. dedicated power circuits at 20 amp ea. 2 power conditioners (Only used for the Pre amp and Cd, turntable not the main amps. I have a hum issue when the microwave oven is in use or when other rooms ceiling fans are set to thier lowest speeds. I will try these audioPrisms Quietline units. The price seems fair. Thanks again for the info.
    Regards: Don Scheer
    Donto's System:
    Parasound HCA3500
    Parasound HCA 1500a (4 each)
    DIY Set Tube Amps (4 each)
    Parasound 850 Pre-Amp
    Onkyo CD Player
    Teac Tape Play/Recorder
    Samsung 50" TV
    Toshiba HD DVD Play/Recorder
    Polk RTA12C Speakers
    DIY 15" Side-Firing Subwoofers (2 ea)
    DIY 15" Down-Firing Subwoofer
    Adcom Power Conditioner
    DIY Isolation Transformers/Power Conditioner
    4 ea 20 Amp Power Circuits
  • RamZet
    RamZet Posts: 786
    edited April 2013
    I dont get it, why not just buy a 20 amp line conditioner?



    This review/test however is awesome. You did a good job. When an outlet gives us issues in the field we will stick a AC scout into it for a few days. It will record what the outlet is doing and show you in a nice chart when you plug it into the computer.

    http://www.acscout.com/servlet/Detail?no=7
    B&W
    B&K
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited April 2013
    RamZet wrote: »
    I dont get it, why not just buy a 20 amp line conditioner?

    A lot of line conditioners just address noise in the neighborhood of the 60 Hz power signal. The Noise Harvester and Quietline address higher frequency electrical noise. If you already have a line conditioner that addresses EMI and RFI, then you might not need these devices.

    Thanks for the tip on the AC scout.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited April 2013
    dscheer wrote: »
    I have a hum issue when the microwave oven is in use or when other rooms ceiling fans are set to thier lowest speeds.
    Regards: Don Scheer
    Is it a mechanical hum issue you're having ? Certain temperature/light/speed controls can load the electrical line asymmetrically and create DC offset. This DC offset can cause transformers, particularly toroids to buzz/hum audibly.
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
  • dscheer
    dscheer Posts: 47
    edited April 2013
    No Glen B I don't think it's mechanical (Not exactly sure) The Hum emits fom my Mid & Low freq drivers (RTA12c). I'm purchasing the Audio Prisims units, worth a try. I will let you know of the results. However; my 4 ea. set amps do have a bit of microphonic sensitivity, These 2 mono amps drive my JBL mid/high freq horns and the other 2 drive the polk sl2000 high freq drivers. I get no hiss or hum from these drivers. I'm thinking that my pre-amp my be picking up the hum, not sure until I change things out re: pre-amp. Don't want to change too much at one time.
    Always appreciate info.
    Regards: Don Scheer
    Donto's System:
    Parasound HCA3500
    Parasound HCA 1500a (4 each)
    DIY Set Tube Amps (4 each)
    Parasound 850 Pre-Amp
    Onkyo CD Player
    Teac Tape Play/Recorder
    Samsung 50" TV
    Toshiba HD DVD Play/Recorder
    Polk RTA12C Speakers
    DIY 15" Side-Firing Subwoofers (2 ea)
    DIY 15" Down-Firing Subwoofer
    Adcom Power Conditioner
    DIY Isolation Transformers/Power Conditioner
    4 ea 20 Amp Power Circuits
  • gstew
    gstew Posts: 1
    edited April 2013
    DarqueKnight,

    Thank you for this and your previous power line investigations. I happened on your P5/P10 articles while I was waiting for a P10 to arrive. Your article gave some great info on what to expect and how to best optimize the beast including fuse upgrades and helped me get it running well without a lot of trial and error.

    I've been experimenting a bit with noise reduction filter in my system too, not only in parallel with my AC inputs, but also on AC circuits outside of the system's (sadly, I don't have dedicated lines in this house yet... I did them awhile back in a previous house and was VERY impressed with the improvements).

    I've done three different types of filtering. First were filter chokes in parallel with the AC circuits. I used these before getting the P10 and was surprised that I preferred the P10 with them plugged into the same AC outlet as the P10. I'm using Hammond 193L and 193M chokes, as suggested in a number of threads on the Audio Asylum a few years back. I'm currently using one of each across the AC at the P10 outlet. The difference is a subtle lowering of the noise floor... the times I've left them unplugged by accident, after a short while listening, I think something is broken in my system until I plug them in again.

    The second was to add ferrite clamps on power cords of appliances and other equipment that have SMPS's... microwave, washer, dryer, DVD players, TVs, all the extension cords where phone / tablet / PC power supplies or chargers are plugged in, etc. I don't think I could hear the difference adding any one of these clamps. But all of them together made a very noticable and significant noise-floor lowering. I started with what few clamps I had in my boxes from when people first tried them (and I never liked them on the power cords of any of my equipment), added some of the overpriced ones from Radio Shack, then ordered a bunch from Digikey. I did most of these long before I got the P10, but recently replaced my very old microwave (which had a linear supply!) with a new one (which probably doesn't) AND added a 2nd DVD player (with an SMPS) to the TV where my wife watches movies. After a few weeks, I realized that I never put a ferrite clamp on that player' cord... and when I did that I also added another couple to the microwave. These were surprisingly noticable in the system, with the highs gaining another level of sweetness.

    The third are a couple of parallel filters, the somewhat pricer ones from Bruce Brisson's DIY Audio Kits. I added the first a few months back on the same circuit as my P10 and most of my system... nice improvement of lowering noise, making the highs sweeter, and focusing and fleshing out the mids. After a couple of months to make sure it was broken and settled in I got a 2nd... and after a week of it on the same AC circuit, I found the system had become 'confused' and less focused. Pulling it out returned the sound to how I remembered... and then putting it on another circuit in the house, the one for the bathrooms and their GFI circuits, brought the same type of improvements as the first, with a larger improvement in the mids than before.

    My lessons from all of this was that while the P10 made a HUGE difference in the sonics of my system and improved the sound quality above even the best I had before, it does not eliminate the sonic impacts of problems on the AC lines upstream for me. I still hear some variation between 'good' powerline times (weekends, late evenings) and 'poor' powerline times (days, late-afternoons-early evenings). While it's better during the 'poor' times than the best before, it still varies. Adding other conditioning upstream can still make significant differences, especially if applied at the source of the problem (i.e. chokes on the cords of noise-producing appliances and equipment).

    Also, I do have both an un-filtered and a filtered (PS Audio Soloist) set of outlets that I can plug the P10 into. I prefer the unfiltered, which gives me greater dynamics and bass power with only a tiny increase in noise.

    All of this is a long-winded way to say try some of those filters on other circuits in your home along with ferrite chokes on the 'noisy' equipement... this worked well for me.

    And I'm getting some of the Quietlines to try!

    Greg in Mississippi

    P.S. This system of mine is both complex and simple. Complex in that the program source is a computer music player based on the cMP/cPlay formula. I've taken it to the extreme with 9 linear supplies powering the computer, sound card, add-on DAC (and it's clock circuit), and a separate set of 3 linear supplies feeding the 'dirty' circuits, the processor, screen, SSD, and keyboard. The 'dirty' supplies are not powered through the P10 ,but go to a separate AC circuit and have their own set of choke filters on the AC input.

    This music player has 'extreme' operating system reductions to where the Windows XP-based opsys and player take up only about 15Mb! This somewhat complex front-end feeds into a very simple, but high-quality shunt-stepped attenuator and a pair of Hypex NCore amps. These drive a pair of Eminent Technology LFT-IV planar speaker with upgraded crossovers.
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    edited April 2013
    gstew wrote: »
    All of this is a long-winded way to say try some of those filters on other circuits in your home along with ferrite chokes on the 'noisy' equipement... this worked well for me.vers.

    This is good advice. The more noise burden you remove upstream of an AC regenerator, the less hard work it has to do and the better its output. I'll try filtering my other household devices.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,217
    edited March 2017
    Bumping a REALLY OLD thread...

    @DarqueKnight

    I am thinking about buying 8 of the Quietline's. 3 of them would be used on my 3 dedicated lines in the HT for my B&K, Misc Gear (connected to my APC H15), and my Crown XLS amp.

    The question I have is, for the remaining 5, for my loft setup which is on a shared line, would I plug 1 Quietline into one of the 2 outlets in the 3 jacks in the loft that are unused, or plug them all into all of the unused outlets even if using 2 per outlet?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 24
    edited March 2017
    Acknowledging there are many ways to skin a cat, here is my multi-tiered solution to power line noise..

    - Furutech GTX-D(g) wpo
    - Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo conditioner
    - High end Jorma Prime pc's with Oyaide M1/F1 connectors (shieldings greatly reduce EMI/RFI distortion)
    - Acoustic Revive RR-777 with KR Mk2 psu (reduces EMI/RFI distortion of Earth's natural Schumann resonance of 7.83Hz)
    - Telos GNR (future)

    I guess the Telos equivalent of the Audioprism Quietline would be the Quantum Noise Resonator which uses a different process.
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    The question I have is, for the remaining 5, for my loft setup which is on a shared line, would I plug 1 Quietline into one of the 2 outlets in the 3 jacks in the loft that are unused, or plug them all into all of the unused outlets even if using 2 per outlet?

    I don't know. You'll have to try it and see what you hear. There is nothing wrong with doubling up Quietlines on a jack with two empty receptacles.

    Are there other electrical devices on the loft shared line (lights, etc.)? If so, more QL's in the unused outlets might be beneficial.






    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,217
    edited March 2017
    I don't know. You'll have to try it and see what you hear. There is nothing wrong with doubling up Quietlines on a jack with two empty receptacles.

    Are there other electrical devices on the loft shared line (lights, etc.)? If so, more QL's in the unused outlets might be beneficial.

    The loft has my APC H15 which connects to all my audio gear in that room (Anthem AVR, Computer, NAS x 2, Network switch, Roku, TV), except my sub, which is on a different outlet, but the same ciruit. The other outlets in that room are not in use currently, but on that circuit is a ceiling fan with lights (no dimmer though).

    Also in reading up on things they suggest plugging these into outlets shared with your fridge/microwave, etc.

    So I'm wondering if I shouldn't put one on the outlet the microwave uses, another on the one the fridge is using, and another in the garage on the outlet the freezer is using.

    I'm not totally up to speed on how noise gets into a system unless its from another item on that circuit, so thats somewhat confusing me.

    For now I have 3 dedicated HT lines, all using PS Audio outlets. 1 is used exclusively by my B&K 200.5. 1 is used exclusively by my APC H15 for all my source gear, including TV. 1 is used exclusively by my Crown XLS amp.

    Do I even want these on the dedicated lines, or should I focus on removing noise that will get into the system by being fed back into the breaker box by things like ceiling fans, compressor motors, etc?

    The bedrooms (3 total), loft, and family room all have ceiling fans, with only the master having a dimmer switch for the lights.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,646
    Quietlines target high frequency noise from things like cell phones, radio and tv waves, microwave ovens, and wireless routers. These sources generate a class of noise called "environmental noise". This very high frequency noise is not directly audible since it is far above the audio band, but the energy contributed by this noise can causes an audible distortion of the 60 Hz power signal and its major harmonics.

    Noise also comes from the power generating plant in the form of DC and harmonics (multiples) of the fundamental 60 Hz power frequency. Lastly, electrical noise comes from components plugged into an electrical circuit.

    I have Quietlines on my dedicated lines.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,915
    Great review, I can't wait to try these. Wait, yes I can I am broke again.
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