New Krell(to me) amp & 1000VA drednaught???

Leftplumma

Hello all,
Well, I was lurking around the forum and came upon a thread about this beast Krell amp for sale on CL.(thanks for the info GUDNOIZ).
So after contacting the owner and weeks of banter and such, the amp was shipped to me.
Well all I have to say is WOW!!
I did not have my new cables yet for the A1 Dreadnought so I decided to hook the thing up to the 1.2tl's without any connecting cable.
The sound completely blew me away.
A few days later my new cables arrived, and I went to work setting up the dreadnought and began testing the system.
It seemed, as it always has, that with the cable connected the mids became much more prominent but harsh, and the bass was much thinner and not very solid.
I was thinking that the transformer needed to be burned in, so I figured I'd give it a week or two before I worried about the sound quality.
I played the system for a few hours the next day with no problems, and everything sounded quite good.
Yesterday I was listening to a favorite CD when all of a sudden POOF! everything went dead.....:sad:
I shut everything down and reset the breaker on the back of the Krell and got a faint humming sound.
I shut it back off, and then disconnected all the input and output cables and tried again.
At this time I did not even get a light on the front signaling that there was power to the unit.
I checked the outlet and there is power there, and I also checked the breaker in the amp and there is power on both sides of it.
I'm wondering if I might have toasted something with the Dreadnought??
I followed along closely on the thread when I assembled it, but I suppose I may have messed something up.
Also I'm wondering if this particular amp might not be compatible with this type of system.
I'm planning on driving down to Ct from NH to Krell to get the amp serviced.
But I'm worried that I may damage it again with my system.
I'm planning on bringing the dreadnought to Krell as well as a schematic of the speaker for the Tech. to look at.
If anyone has any ideas or thoughts on the subject, I'd be grateful for your input.
Best,
Jeff

F1nut

I have to think the issue is within your amp. The Dreadnought can be used with any amp.

It seemed, as it always has, that with the cable connected the mids became much more prominent but harsh, and the bass was much thinner and not very solid.

That isn't right. If anything, the bass is much better with the Dreadnought.

headrott

Open up the Dreadnought and post some close up pictures of the wiring inside. Make sure you have the 2 sets of wires attached correctly to the binding posts. One binding post set should be the pin and one the blade and make sure the wires are correctly attached accordingly and (as I stated) that the two sets of wires are wired together correctly. The primary and secondary leads should be wired in parallel and here are the corresponding colors and pin/blade designations:

Right Pin = Red/Yellow

Right Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Black/Orange

Left Pin = Grey/Brown

Left Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Blue/Violet

Edit: I would double check that the wires are also connected between the dreadnought and the speakers correctly (corresponding pin/blade connections on the back of the dreadnought and the corresponding pin/blade posts on the speaker)

Of course, the problem could be with your amplifier as well.

Leftplumma

headrott wrote: »

Open up the Dreadnought and post some close up pictures of the wiring inside. Make sure you have the 2 sets of wires attached correctly to the binding posts. One binding post set should be the pin and one the blade and make sure the wires are correctly attached accordingly and (as I stated) that the two sets of wires are wired together correctly. The primary and secondary leads should be wired in parallel and here are the corresponding colors and pin/blade designations:

Right Pin = Red/Yellow

Right Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Black/Orange

Left Pin = Grey/Brown

Left Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Blue/Violet

Of course, the problem could be with your amplifier as well.

Here is the Pik I have of the wiring.
I connected the two top posts to the left & right positive terminals on the speakers, and the bottom posts to the negative terminal (same as the negative from the amp.
Thanks for your help!

Leftplumma

That isn't right. If anything, the bass is much better with the Dreadnought.[/QUOTE]

Well, that's interesting.... I think there are other problems with these speakers as well.
They were abused before I bought them and were used with mono blocks without a A1-A cable.
I have a set of Gimpods boards, and that is the next upgrade for me.
There is also some evidence of changes in drivers by looking at the dates.
I'm wondering if there might be something out of phase given the loss of bass with the Dreadnought....

headrott

Leftplumma wrote: »

Here is the Pik I have of the wiring.
I connected the two top posts to the left & right positive terminals on the speakers, and the bottom posts to the negative terminal (same as the negative from the amp.
Thanks for your help!

So you are connecting the Dreadnought cables to the same binding posts as the amplifier cables on the speakers? That is, you did not install a separate binding post in place of the pin and blade connectors? Did I understand you correctly?

gudnoyez

Jeff so you bought that Krell, and the owner shipped it from Iowa to New Hampshire? I drooled over that amp but didn't have the funds to purchase it glad I posted the info on it congratulations. I'am sorry to hear that your having issues. I hope you get it all worked out. I ended up getting another Adcom, but plan on getting a Krell one of these days. If you dont mind me asking we're you able to work out a deal or did it go for the asking price? I bet it sounded great, keep us informed on your dilemma. Oh and your welcome for the info!

F1nut

I connected the two top posts to the left & right positive terminals on the speakers

There's your problem. You have to connect to the pin.

SCompRacer

Congrats on your new amp!

The Krell 600 speaker outputs are balanced; neither pos or neg are connected to GND. Joining channel grounds will short the outputs. Im thinkin' if you did that it would have happened immediately and not taken a few hours?

nspindel

I use my 1000VA Dreadnaught with my Krell amp every day. Can you post some more pics of the wiring? Try to get close in on the left and right terminals so we can see which color wires are going to which posts. I couldn't really see well enough with the pic you posted.

nspindel

F1nut wrote: »

There's your problem. You have to connect to the pin.

Actually, I missed this. Spot on. The top two posts go to the pin of the pin/blade connector on each speaker, or whatever you may have replaced that connector with. The bottom posts on the Dreadnaught go to the negative connections on each speaker.

Leftplumma

headrott wrote: »

So you are connecting the Dreadnought cables to the same binding posts as the amplifier cables on the speakers? That is, you did not install a separate binding post in place of the pin and blade connectors? Did I understand you correctly?

No Sir,
I did install a Cardas binding post for the positive cable coming from the top post of the dreadnought.
The bottom or negative post I connected to the negative post on the speaker, if that makes any sence.

Leftplumma

gudnoyez wrote: »

Jeff so you bought that Krell, and the owner shipped it from Iowa to New Hampshire? I drooled over that amp but didn't have the funds to purchase it glad I posted the info on it congratulations. I'am sorry to hear that your having issues. I hope you get it all worked out. I ended up getting another Adcom, but plan on getting a Krell one of these days. If you dont mind me asking we're you able to work out a deal or did it go for the asking price? I bet it sounded great, keep us informed on your dilemma. Oh and your welcome for the info!

Thank you, and thank you for bringing it to our attention here.
The amp sounded fabulous for the few hours that It ran, and I'm confident that this is not a major event as I really didn't let the smoke out of it.
I don't smell anything burnt anywhere in the amp.
I also looked around at what these things were going for and didn't haggle with him much on price.
It turns out that he was a super guy, and spent a TON of time and $$$ packing this thing up for shipment.
When I carried the thing into my living room I realized what I had.....

Leftplumma

When I carried the thing into my living room I realized what I had.....[/QUOTE]

A sore back

Leftplumma

nspindel wrote: »

I use my 1000VA Dreadnaught with my Krell amp every day. Can you post some more pics of the wiring? Try to get close in on the left and right terminals so we can see which color wires are going to which posts. I couldn't really see well enough with the pic you posted.

Hi Neil,
I'm pretty sure of the wiring but I'll try to get you a better picture.
Also when I do a check with my ohmmeter I get a reading between the top and bottom posts on either side but nothing between any posts from the left and right side.
So I'm thinking I'm ok??

Leftplumma

SCompRacer wrote: »

Congrats on your new amp!

The Krell 600 speaker outputs are balanced; neither pos or neg are connected to GND. Joining channel grounds will short the outputs. Im thinkin' if you did that it would have happened immediately and not taken a few hours?

Thank you,
I'm thinking the same thing as it would be like a direct short.
The guy that did that to my Hafler monoblocks ran for quite awhile that way I was told....
When you turned the amps on the lrft speakers all jumped forward a half inch and stayed there. (dc current)
But he used the thing that way for some time...

SCompRacer

If you go to Krell see if you can smuggle out a KSL pre amp/KSL MM-MC phono board schematic with suggested bias settings.:cheesygrin: I need to see how close I am....

Leftplumma

SCompRacer wrote: »

If you go to Krell see if you can smuggle out a KSL pre amp/KSL MM-MC phono board schematic with suggested bias settings.:cheesygrin: I need to see how close I am....

I'll do my best!!
But I looked around for a schematic of the 600 and there are none available that I can find.
I don't Krell lets these thing get out.

mantis

My man , get the Krell fixed , take the Deadought and put it out to the trash. With the Kell 600 , you don't need it at all.

SCompRacer

Leftplumma wrote: »

I'll do my best!!
But I looked around for a schematic of the 600 and there are none available that I can find.
I don't Krell lets these thing get out.

Yeah, Krell holds on to the proprietary thing. I asked and was denied; just got the $125/hour plus parts repair offer if they did it. There are some floating around on ebay. Unsure of quality/completeness.

Dan, no Dreadnought (or IC cable), no SDA. I don't see an SDA owner doing that.

Leftplumma

mantis wrote: »

My man , get the Krell fixed , take the Deadought and put it out to the trash. With the Kell 600 , you don't need it at all.

Hey Dan,
So are you telling me to run the 1.2s with a straight cable, or just to run them without any SDA cable whatsoever.
I do have to say that they sounded the best they ever have by a lot with just the two channels hooked up.

Leftplumma

just got the $125/hour plus parts repair offer if they did it.

Ya I'm not looking forward to that part much at all.
Especially when I mortgaged the farm to buy the amp in the first place.
Plus it's a 4.5 Hr drive to the shop from here.
But I think I need to let only Krell fix this problem......

SCompRacer

Ed (Savinon) had some work done on his mono blocks at Krell. Top notch service he tells me. There is a KSA 250 in PA waiting for me to try. They are pretty long in the tooth and need to be inspected/recapped before use.

mantis

Leftplumma wrote: »

Hey Dan,
So are you telling me to run the 1.2s with a straight cable, or just to run them without any SDA cable whatsoever.
I do have to say that they sounded the best they ever have by a lot with just the two channels hooked up.

You should have a SDA cable between the SDA's , they don't sound exactly right without it. Yes they will play and play well but they are designed to have the SDA cable in place.
I'm not feeling the Dreadnought.

Leftplumma

SCompRacer wrote: »

Ed (Savinon) had some work done on his mono blocks at Krell. Top notch service he tells me. There is a KSA 250 in PA waiting for me to try. They are pretty long in the tooth and need to be inspected/recapped before use.

Yes, and I've read mostly all good reviews about Krell service.
Pricey, but very professional.
Also the 600 is getting up there where capping will be an issue soon.
I asked Krell for a ballpark figure and they wouldn't/couldn't say.

FTGV

mantis wrote: »

You should have a SDA cable between the SDA's , they don't sound exactly right without it. Yes they will play and play well but they are designed to have the SDA cable in place.
I'm not feeling the Dreadnought.

The Krell has a differential output stage (as in non common ground) therefore he absolutely needs the isolation tranformer in place of the SDA cable.

F1nut

mantis wrote: »

My man , get the Krell fixed , take the Deadought and put it out to the trash. With the Kell 600 , you don't need it at all.

More bad advice.

About the Krell....

The FPB 600's speaker output is balanced; ie, neither "positive" or negative" terminals are connected to ground or the amplifier chassis. (Note that no speaker switches or headphone adaptors, which often have joined channel grounds, may be used, as they will short the outputs.) The output terminals are electrically at 0V, but float above the chassis ground.

That means he has to use the AI-1/Dreadnought.

SCompRacer

FTGV wrote: »

The Krell has a differential output stage (as in non common ground) therefore he absolutely needs the isolation tranformer in place of the SDA cable.

See, I been readin' and knows a lot about Krell's Fred.:cheesygrin:

SCompRacer

Leftplumma wrote: »

I asked Krell for a ballpark figure and they wouldn't/couldn't say.

They didn't write it in stone but they said 1-2 hours to repair my phono board. It may have been a common issue, thus the estimated time. It did take me longer than two hours, along with bugging Fred.:twisted::cheesygrin:

Leftplumma

Well, I've already made my mind up that it's going back to Krell.
I don't trust any local repair shop and their not touchin my baby.....
Just the few hours we spent together were......well.........special

Toolfan66

mantis wrote: »

My man , get the Krell fixed , take the Deadought and put it out to the trash. With the Kell 600 , you don't need it at all.

Really?? Come on Dan, you can't be for real...