Giving up analog...
Comments
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Analog requires too much fiddling?
First let me say that I enjoy both vinyl and digital....so I'm not emotionally invested either way. Now, if I had F1's rig...yeah, I'd probably not be all that motivated to get into analog (speaking of fiddling and reliability...how's that MF SACD player?
).
In terms of SQ, there is crap vinyl just as there is crap digital....and all things being equal, good analog sound is more expensive to achieve. I have a very nice analog setup and it sounds great, but, it was much more expensive. So, it's a tradeoff.
Lastly, the fiddling thing. Well, us audio folks tend to be fiddlers by nature. I enjoy the whole vinyl process. For a number of reasons, I just do.
Surface noise. Hmmmm. On properly cleaned vinyl...I don't find it to be an issue. No more so than the less than silent environment that we live in. For me, one of the big differences between a good analog rig and a not so good is that surface noise, though still present, is (and I don't know how to really put this well) not part of the music. It becomes an ambient event just like any other extraneous noise in the environment. Lesser rigs, tend to not resolve that as much. I know that's less than articulate but, it's 6:30 in the morning...
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Vinyl, CD/SACD / Digital...I don't give a rats arse to what floates your boat. Simply enjoy what sounds good to you & don't try to shove your preference as being the "Holy Grail" on others. Nobody buys into that crap so just keep it to yourself. Sheesh....talking about cables is bad enough, now this nonsence."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Defintiely didn't intend this to be about bashing out the merits of any format.
For me, right now at least, space is the biggest consideration. Turntable, phono pre (and batteries), 500 albums, cleaning set up, it all adds up. Our house is modest; what was the terrible, dingy basement now is drywalled and painted. My children are slowly but surely taking over.Wristwatch--->Crisco -
One guy didn't like it when I used "Godlike" as a descriptive for the sound of a "mere" technics sl-1300 TT. I never mentioned it being "the best" or "holy grail" but I did violate the audio snob code by using a word reserved for rigs of extreme cost. I have to agree with the above statement: listen to what you like, there is no real "holy grail" and if it induces sonic bliss....describe it any way you like. Enjoy the music.
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Defintiely didn't intend this to be about bashing out the merits of any format.
For me, right now at least, space is the biggest consideration. Turntable, phono pre (and batteries), 500 albums, cleaning set up, it all adds up. Our house is modest; what was the terrible, dingy basement now is drywalled and painted. My children are slowly but surely taking over.
Maybe sell everything and hang on to your albums. You can always pick up more gear fairly easily...but would be impossible to re-gather your collection. Unless you got some good jazz, in that case, I'll swing right over :cheesygrin:2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
May I know what that SS amp that you're using? I haven't encountered any SS amp that offer close to tube sound quality.
BAT 200VK amplifier, but it all depends on what speakers you are powering. The "tube sound" has a lot of different aspects including dampening factor and output impedance that can interact differently with different speakers. Most SS amps these days are designed completely different than tube amps, so there is no question that they sound different. -
The old albums are the hardest to part with. My good Christian sister in-law fixed that
for me. She destroyed a lot of my favorite stuff one day when she was baby sitting.
Seems it was all demonic.
I've gone al digital playback(keeping the cds). The real hard part is cd's are getting hard to find in older releases.
There's a few places that have thse harder to find ones used, but at a premium price.
The days of finding cd's at a yard sale(other that teen dream crap) are gone."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
wow, if any of my inlaws did something like that (and they all fall on the side of your SIL's description) they wouldn't ever be allowed in my house again.. my house, my posessions, my rules.Main 2ch -
BlueSound Node->Ethereal optical cable->Peachtree Audio Nova 150->GoldenEar Triton 2+
TT - Pro-ject Classic SB with Sumiko Bluepoint.
TV 3.1 system -
Denon 3500 -> Dynaudio Excite 32/22 -
I was in a vinyl hiatus for 23 years. My sacd player sounds incredible, also serves as a 24-bit dac for my Squeezebox Touch playing hi-rez. But I just recently got back into vinyl, I bought a Thorens TD166 MKII with a Shure MX97E from UpstateMax. I've purchased some great vinyl recently, and completely love it. The sound is beautiful - warm and effortless. Yeah you get some pops and clicks, but if you clean the records well, it's minimal. There's something lovely about the sound of vinyl that I just can't verbalize. Had some friends over listening to some stuff that I have in both formats, and even with the bit of noise between tracks, the vinyl still seemed to win everyone over.
For example, I have the Sony Mastersound cd version of Billy Joel 52nd Street. Recently I picked up a still-sealed original pressing vinyl copy. Had a couple friends over, we played Stiletto back and forth between the two several times. The cd version sounds great - crisp, punchy, lively, great dynamics. I'd always thought that Mastersound version was as good as you could make 52nd Street sound. Until I put the original vinyl on. The vinyl just had something special to it that we were digging just a bit more. Extension on the cymbals, depth to the bass, transients that just seem to start from nowhere and disappear in complete smoothness, where the same transients on the cd seemed to have a definite start point and finish point.
I don't get into the better or worse thing when it comes to formats. I completely get why people have moved away from vinyl, and I get why people have stayed with it or returned to it. As I've said several times, this is a hobby. It's not nuclear physics. If you're having fun with it, that's all that counts. For me, there's a nostalgic aspect to vinyl that is missing with cd/digital. It's fun to reminisce with, remembering back to how I listened to music as a kid/teenager, before I'd ever even heard of a cd before.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
wow, if any of my inlaws did something like that (and they all fall on the side of your SIL's description) they wouldn't ever be allowed in my house again.. my house, my posessions, my rules.
She's 1500 miles away now. Not far enough."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
One guy didn't like it when I used "Godlike" as a descriptive for the sound of a "mere" technics sl-1300 TT.
This is what I said.
"Please, don't show me an inexpensive belt drive turntable and say godlike in the same sentence." And you went off on some ignorant insulting rant.
A snob believes that some people are inherently inferior to him or her for any one of a variety of reasons. Show me where I have ever done that. I will however dispute what sounds better based on recognized facts, like constant speed of a turntable versus wavering speed.
Ben, maybe pack the table up until the kids are older and more responsible. How can you relax listening to vinyl wondering if something is going to happen to the gear or the kids?
Here is the thing about turntables, cartridges and arms. You can have a soggy warm presentation, or highly dynamic with amazing clarity, and somewhere between. One just needs to look at the history of the Linn LP12 turntable for proof. As it aged with subsequent redesign, it got tighter and dryer. Some like the old design, some like the middle design and some like the newer design. Your choice.
Vinyl can be like an old friend. It has its faults, so do you, you accept them and carry on with the friendship. But I've never had vinyl be absolutely silent on every pressing regardless of what I have done with it. Clean, steam, send new pressings back for better ones, etc. Some fellow on the internet had mentioned cleaning offending pops out of the groove under a microscope. Some pressing plants back in the day recycled their bad pressings, labels and all in the new vinyl mix. At least it may have started out as pure vinyl. Try and remove that pop or tick.
Digital, absolutely silent. You want to get involved and emotional with the music with no surprise pops or ticks, there you go. Cause that noise bothers some folks. Again, their choice. And yes, digital music can be 3 dimensional with wonderful imaging. I think digital can be too perfect for some folks, but it doesn't mean others cant enjoy it.
Like with turntables, you can also go DIY with a DAC with pricing from mild to wild.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
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Hate to ask a dumb question but will anyway.... do they make TT's with a digital ouput??"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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Scottinwa is quite the tool. Twisting and reinterpreting other peoples words.
Digital, if done correctly, can sound a bit like analog. A nice smooth class A amp, some tubes and a DAC that gets it right can be a substitute of sorts. In essence giving you small amounts of analog glory. It won't ever match a higher end table, cartridge and phono-pre; add to that a properly cared for and cleaned black disc that was recorded with care to begin with and there is no comparison.
I have heard Rich's vinyl rig many times and it was/is impressive. But with prying eyes and little hands about it's best to store it away and get a satisfying digital rig until you can break out the analog again in the future.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Scottinwa is quite the tool. Twisting and reinterpreting other peoples words.
Digital, if done correctly, can sound a bit like analog. A nice smooth class A amp, some tubes and a DAC that gets it right can be a substitute of sorts. In essence giving you small amounts of analog glory. It won't ever match a higher end table, cartridge and phono-pre; add to that a properly cared for and cleaned black disc that was recorded with care to begin with and there is no comparison.
I have heard Rich's vinyl rig many times and it was/is impressive. But with prying eyes and little hands about it's best to store it away and get a satisfying digital rig until you can break out the analog again in the future.
H9
A lot of the strife that I'm going through I can blame squarely on Rich. That damn DAC of his is really making me want to tear into mine and upgrade it. 'cept mine will have 7 transformers instead of just six...Wristwatch--->Crisco -
I'm hoping out of the goodness of his heart he will build me one.
I'll pay for it, but I don't have the knowledge or better yet the patience he has. I have heard it in the beginning stages, but not since he's completely upped the ante.
Can't wait to hear it soon
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
May I know what that SS amp that you're using? I haven't encountered any SS amp that offer close to tube sound quality.
There are plenty out there, just keep having those encounters
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
as long as the music MOVES and INSPIRES, it just doesn't matter how it got to your ears
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I bought my Lector CD player because of its true tube amplification and that it sounds very analogue in its presentation. I tried to move away from vinyl many times (and my collection was stored along the way for many years), but I am glad to have returned. Truly my analogue front end sounds wonderful and is better than my Lector, that said lets see I paid .......... yeah. Almost 3 times the cost of the Lector new for the table, tonearm, and cartridge used. That plus the RCM and supplies. It takes alot for vinyl to sound its best (and it can sound a lot better than mine) but at a point if the effort is worth it to you it can be amazing. I am not invested in SACD and I am sure that could close the gap some, but I grew up with vinyl and when its right for me its like going home. integrated w/DAC module Gryphon Diablo 300
server Wolf Alpha 3SX
phono pre Dynamic Sounds Associates Phono II
turntable/tonearms Origin Live Sovereign Mk3 dual arm, Origin Live Enterprise Mk4, Origin Live Illustrious Mk3c
cartridges Miyajima Madake, Ortofon Windfeld Ti, Ortofon
speakers Rockport Mira II
cables Synergistic Research Cables, Gryphon VPI XLR, Sablon 2020 USB
rack Adona Eris 6dw
ultrasonic cleaner Degritter -
Thinking about getting out of the analog realm altogether to concentrate on digital.
Good...there will be more used records on the market for the rest of us if you're not buying any.
Main System:
Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0
Home Theater:
Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450 -
Anyone else thinking about getting out of Vinyl make sure to give us a good Polkie Price and we will help you move along to digital....
help us help you
Seriously, why not enjoy both formats, there is nothing wrong with having a digital setup as well as a vinyl setup. Unless you have become so lazy that you dont feel like leaving the couch. In that case send me all your records, I will convert them to digital, and send you back CD's or put them on an external hard drive (I keep the records of course) -
It has nothing to do with laziness. To do analog correctly and gain a significant advantage you need to have a pretty good investment in the gear. Then the ritual of cleaning, preserving and storing vinyl is an art unto itself.
Anyone can buy a $200 table, $100 cartridge and $100 phon-pre, and buy vinyl from the goodwill and plop it on the TT and get sound. That's the lazy way of doing it and it won't sound all that great compared to doing it the way I described in the 1st paragraph. That's why I don't choose to get into vinyl. I don't have the time and patience it takes to do it absolutely right. Nor am I willing to take the time and learn the patience to do it justice like it deserves.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
May I know what that SS amp that you're using? I haven't encountered any SS amp that offer close to tube sound quality.
There are many out there.
Off the top of my head:
Dayens ampino
first watt f3
hell, even emotiva gear sounds kind of like tube gear with its slightly rolled top end and looser bass.design is where science and art break even. -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Where else can I find Bobby Goldsboro and Hee-Haw's greatest: hits? :redface:
I found both on itunes pretty easily...design is where science and art break even. -
Anyone else thinking about getting out of Vinyl make sure to give us a good Polkie Price and we will help you move along to digital....
help us help you
My Empire Troubadour 598 has been up for sale for a month now. Don't seem to be too many people rushing to "help" loldesign is where science and art break even. -
yes, but most suck.EndersShadow wrote: »Hate to ask a dumb question but will anyway.... do they make TT's with a digital ouput??
the best thing to do is get a good phono pre with an riaa connection and hook it up to your computer that way through pure vinyl.design is where science and art break even. -
Holy crap. My mom broke my Metallica Kill 'em all CD when I was 13, but an in-law???? I would have gone ballistic.sucks2beme wrote: »The old albums are the hardest to part with. My good Christian sister in-law fixed that
for me. She destroyed a lot of my favorite stuff one day when she was baby sitting.
Seems it was all demonic.design is where science and art break even. -
Newrival I will let you borrow my copy LOLKlipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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Tankman, don't quote him...geesh!
Everyone say goodbye to the troll 'cause he's outta here!!!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
...and he's not easily impressed!
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut
