Stupid Political Ads

nooshinjohn

Polkie2009 wrote: »

+1000 John, excellent point. Down here in Texas, we are sick and tired of the assclown career politicians and kicking them to the curb by voting in people who truly love this country and our Constitution.

Thanks man... the one thing they count on are the fringes on both sides showing up, and the rest of us to tune out because we have had enough of the bs. The majority needs to stand up and show whackjobs to the door. Further, the new crowd needs to be unafraid to expose the bs, charge, send to trial and convict those that have violated the public trust, and clean house. In order to renew and reset the system, they cannot ignore the need to restore the public's trust.

sucks2beme

Both red and blue are wrong. We need to cut spending and gimme programs, AND raise taxes.
Because if we don't, the government is going to go bust.We all need to feel the pain.
And forget what you heard, companies are creating lot of jobs. Great in you are in India, Brazil, or China.
Time for some one to point that out. Add to it all the under the table jobs given to illegals,
The job market is under fire on all sides. We are addicted to cheap credit and cheap labor.
Bottom line, bringing jobs back is going to cost us more money at the store,
but we simply can't afford to export all our wealth for short term benefits.
Money circulating here-good. Money heading off shore-bad.

nooshinjohn

Massive cuts in spending... massive reductions, and I mean by 35%,(except defense/NASA which should be increased) in the size and scope of government, and corresponding tax cuts rolled in over a period of ten years sound good to me. Entire departments and organizations should be scrapped or sold to private enterprise. So many more changes need to be made to right the ship. I am beginning to think we, as a Nation, have spotted the iceberg. The question is will we allow ourselves to strike it, or will we turn in time.

Captain, crew and the rats aboard ship are already in the lifeboats, so it's up to us to change course or go down with the ship.

markmarc

If we are all going to be pounded by the uncontrolled insanity of political ads why not tax them and put the money into a fund to assist wounded combat veterans. Here is how it would work:
Positive ad by candidate no tax
Positive ad by PAC 25%
Negative ad by candidate 50% tax
Negative ad by PAC 100% tax
The tax payment would be collected immediately at contract signing to avoid campaign bankruptcies that happen on a regular basis.

gimpod

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Massive cuts in spending... massive reductions, and I mean by 35%,(except defense/NASA which should be increased) in the size and scope of government, and corresponding tax cuts rolled in over a period of ten years sound good to me. Entire departments and organizations should be scrapped or sold to private enterprise. So many more changes need to be made to right the ship.

Sorry man but that's pie in the sky thinking. Even at 35% cuts across the board including defense won't even get us half way there and then you want to add more tax cuts!, That's like going to your boss and saying "I can't make my mortgage payments so could you cut my hourly wage". When your so far in debut you can't make the payments you need to make cuts and increase your income not decrease it.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I am beginning to think we, as a Nation, have spotted the iceberg. The question is will we allow ourselves to strike it, or will we turn in time.

Captain, crew and the rats aboard ship are already in the lifeboats, so it's up to us to change course or go down with the ship.

And to carry this analogy thought to it's obvious end, Just like the Titanic we're not going to make it because we're starting to late and our rudder isn't big enough.

Maybe it's just the pessimist in me but at the rate we're going I give this country (yes the good old U.S. of A.) 50 years if we're lucky and if we're really lucky a 100 before it's all toast.

Now as far as voting go's in the almost 40 years I've been of age I have yet to see a political candidate (National or local) that's been worth voting for. Now if there were candidates running that were more interested in doing what's right for the people and the country instead of staying in office, lining there and/or there buddies pockets, gaining more power then I would vote!.

In closing let me ask a question (you don't have to answer it here) and be honest with yourself, Name one politician that has done something that has personally affected your life in a positive way and no making it illegal for a 3 year old to buy an ozzie doesn't count.

Peace, Love and Rock n' Roll ~ I'm Out.

nooshinjohn

Time and again, when corporate and personal income taxes are CUT, revenues to the government rise. This is fact, and can be proven by something called(funny I know) the "Laffer Curve". It has been calculated by many economists that if spending were simply frozen at current levels and a two tired rate system were put in place, for example zero taxes up to 25k personal and 250k corporate, and 15% on all income above that to 250k personal/1mill corporate, then a top rate of 25% personal/20% corporate and dropping the "repatriation peanalty" that is currently some 35%, down to 15%(forces companies to leave foreign earnings in overseas markets, costing us JOBS and taxes)... these things would bring our budget into balance in a short period of time and allow for repayment of our debt over time. Such measures would allow the government to remain at it's current size!:eek:

Can you imagine the power of cuts of 35% combined with the structure outlined above?

Systems

We gotta do something.
Not sure we can go on like we are at this point.
Like the lost dingy in the ocean, its row or die!

If we have to row, lets start rowing now instead of talking about it.
Less talk, more row!

gimpod

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Time and again, when corporate and personal income taxes are CUT, revenues to the government rise. This is fact, and can be proven by something called(funny I know) the "Laffer Curve". It has been calculated by many economists that if spending were simply frozen at current levels and a two tired rate system were put in place, for example zero taxes up to 25k personal and 250k corporate, and 15% on all income above that to 250k personal/1mill corporate, then a top rate of 25% personal/20% corporate and dropping the "repatriation peanalty" that is currently some 35%, down to 15%(forces companies to leave foreign earnings in overseas markets, costing us JOBS and taxes)... these things would bring our budget into balance in a short period of time and allow for repayment of our debt over time. Such measures would allow the government to remain at it's current size!:eek:

Can you imagine the power of cuts of 35% combined with the structure outlined above?

This may all be true I don't know it sounds like voodoo economics, but one thing I know for sure is every time they cut corporate and personal (i.e. the uber-rich) income taxes corporations and the uber-rich get richer and everyone else get's screwed.

One question - These "economists" don't happen to be the same bunch that came up with stupid things like "Credit Default Swaps" and "Credit Derivatives" are they.

The first paragraph on the "Laffer curve" from Wikipedia ~
"In economics, the Laffer curve (sometimes referred to as the Laffer-Khaldun curve) is a hypothetical representation of the relationship between government revenue raised by taxation and all possible rates of taxation. It is used to illustrate the concept of taxable income elasticity ? that taxable income will change in response to changes in the rate of taxation. The Laffer curve postulates that no tax revenue will be raised at the extreme tax rates of 0% and 100%. If both a 0% and 100% rate of taxation generate no revenue, but some intermediate tax rate generates some tax revenue, it follows that there must exist at least one rate where tax revenue would be a non-zero maximum. The Laffer curve is typically represented as a graph which starts at 0% tax with zero revenue, rises to a maximum rate of revenue at an intermediate rate of taxation, and then falls again to zero revenue at a 100% tax rate. The actual existence and shape of the curve is uncertain and disputed."

If that makes any sense to anybody than you must have the family bran cell this weekend. :razz:

nooshinjohn

LOL... Gimpod my friend, we should talk sometime. :cool:

I don't care if the rich get richer, because that means they are doing well and everybody else tends to follow suit, but I do agree that along with all of the reforms and rebuilding going on, we need to restore a Japanese-style sense of HONOR, ethics and accountability. If we accept nothing less than that from those in charge, there is nothing that will ever change.

Systems

"Stupid Political Ads"
The original topic.


Will Rogers said it best: "A fool and his money are soon elected"!

tonyb

Sometimes reality has to hit enough people in the face before they get a clue. Unfortunately we have been subsidizing the reality out of the equation for some time. You can only kick that can so far down the road until you run out of road. The last financial downfall will pale in comparison to the next if action isn't taken now, drastic action. But....all we hear from our leaders is social issues that nobody gives a hoot about except some fringe groups. Not a peep about all the tax increases comming the first of the year, or the ever expanding debt we keep taking on. Actions have consequences, so they say, but so does no action.

We are in such a hole, that drastic cuts would have to be sustained for at least 10 years to even make a dent. How would that even be possible given the changing political climate every 4-8 years ? And how would raising taxes be sustainable over the long term for economic growth ? Wages have been stagnant for some time now while taxes and cost of living keep climbing, keeping pressure on the lower and middle classes. Add to that the huge loss of jobs and a housing market in the toilet, and you have a very dismal outlook for the future. Takes time to turn all that around, and what we have been doing the past 4 years obviously isn't working and only making things worse. I don't think in my years, I've seen the country as devided as today. The rich and the poor, the left and the right, racial issues, religions all upset, unions and non union workers, states against the federal government, Upper class, middle class,lower classes.....all fighting on who should pay their "fair share". You have citizens fighting for privacy, security, and a chance to make a buck while every step of the way government on all levels fights against the very things it's suppose to protect. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to know something "ain't right" with those down Washington way. Some times in our history called for change, real drastic change, this is another one of those times. Question is, are you man or woman enough to partake in that, or sit your **** on the couch come november and not vote ?

tonyb

Just wanted to add that some including our current bonehead down in Washington, believe that all our woes are the fault of our system. That somehow our system failed it's people. Ok.....newsflash....it's not the system that failed the people, it's the people in charge that failed the system. Hello !!

nooshinjohn

"We The People" have failed the system by sitting on our cushy, ever-widening a$$e$ rather than doing what needs to be done and voting douchebags out of office. We need to drink some coffee, stand up and demand better.

tonyb

I think in this situation John, it calls for something a tad stronger than coffee.:cheesygrin:

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

I think in this situation John, it calls for something a tad stronger than coffee.:cheesygrin:

Agreed, but since the Polk Army is down, we can't talk about those nasty fire-sticks here...lol:cheesygrin: this conversation crossed the line from the original post. Hell even the subject line is taboo.

deronb1

Kudos to our forum for voicing well thought out ideas without causing a S&!T storm. Didn't mean to bring about ill will, but obviously some things need to be talked about. No one in history has had the luxury of a crystal ball and we, in present time, are no different, but if we don't start making REAL changes, WE as a country, will be at the mercy of someone else, and that, I don't see going over very well.

stretchl

I'm not really following this thread. In fact, I'm not following it at all, but for those of you who are in the budget cutting discussion I'll point out this interactive exercise where you, yes you, can potentially solve the budget puzzle.

There's even a link that you can paste back here, or anywhere else for that matter, to show the world just now you'd get from red to black. Fun for the entire family -

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html

tonyb

deronb1 wrote: »

WE as a country, will be at the mercy of someone else, and that, I don't see going over very well.

IMO anyway, we already are at the mercy of someone else. To little too late as they say. The final nail in the coffin for this country will come when the dollar is no longer used as the worlds reserve currency. China is already dumping their holdings of U.S. debt and the biggest holder of our debt is....us....because we can print money to no end. It's a double edged sword that makes alot of select people rich on the backs of the many. Heck even as of now, we can barely cover the interest payments. Kinda like making that minimum payment on a credit card thats maxed out. You know you'll never get that principle down no matter how much you keep paying, so you claim bankruptcy and stiff the holders of that credit card debt. Sound familiar ? We as a country are playing that same game only when the time comes that we can't pay our debt, the ramifications will be much worse.

People really seem to not care about our debt because it doesn't effect their day to day lives on a noticeable basis. 5 trillion...10...15 trillion, who cares,right ? Throw it on the countries credit card. There's always a "come to Jesus" moment when you realize your credit is maxed out. We even have some in very high positions wanting this to happen. We haven't even had a budget for the last 4 years. Why ? Well, thats a whole nutha thread, but some would like to see this country brought to it's knees and capitalism destroyed. We all know who these people are in state,local, and federal governments. We all know who they are teaching our kids in our colleges and schools. We all know who they are in our Unions or other organizations. Even our own main stream press, we know who they are. Some openly admit it, while others use snake oil salesmanship because they figure your too dumb to know their motives. Well, are you ....too dumb to know thy own enemy ? Thats a question each of us must answer on a personal basis, but you must answer it soon.

brgman

tonyb wrote: »

IMO anyway, we already are at the mercy of someone else. To little too late as they say. The final nail in the coffin for this country will come when the dollar is no longer used as the worlds reserve currency. China is already dumping their holdings of U.S. debt and the biggest holder of our debt is....us....because we can print money to no end. It's a double edged sword that makes alot of select people rich on the backs of the many. Heck even as of now, we can barely cover the interest payments. Kinda like making that minimum payment on a credit card thats maxed out. You know you'll never get that principle down no matter how much you keep paying, so you claim bankruptcy and stiff the holders of that credit card debt. Sound familiar ? We as a country are playing that same game only when the time comes that we can't pay our debt, the ramifications will be much worse.

People really seem to not care about our debt because it doesn't effect their day to day lives on a noticeable basis. 5 trillion...10...15 trillion, who cares,right ? Throw it on the countries credit card. There's always a "come to Jesus" moment when you realize your credit is maxed out. We even have some in very high positions wanting this to happen. We haven't even had a budget for the last 4 years. Why ? Well, thats a whole nutha thread, but some would like to see this country brought to it's knees and capitalism destroyed. We all know who these people are in state,local, and federal governments. We all know who they are teaching our kids in our colleges and schools. We all know who they are in our Unions or other organizations. Even our own main stream press, we know who they are. Some openly admit it, while others use snake oil salesmanship because they figure your too dumb to know their motives. Well, are you ....too dumb to know thy own enemy ? Thats a question each of us must answer on a personal basis, but you must answer it soon.

+1 Tony.Well stated buddy.

sucks2beme

Three money problems
1. Personal debt.
2. National debt
3. trade deficit

All are bad. All are interlinked.

nooshinjohn

sucks2beme wrote: »

Three money problems
1. Personal debt. = personal integrity
2. National debt = personal responsibility
3. trade deficit = personal accountability
All are bad. All are interlinked.

You are correct, the question is who is responsible for fixing them? Bottom line is we are. Personal debt is simple.. stop spending what you don't have on things you don't need. National debt, stop voting for asshats that spend more than we take in(if you aren't voting, then you are the problem) Trade deficit is much trickier, but if we do the first two things, this will surely come down. We must remember that we don't make anything here anymore that other nations cannot build themselves(thanks to us giving away our technology for free) or that cannot be copied by China and sold for ten times cheaper.

The biggest hurdle to fixing things is appathy, and you.

(not you personally sucks2beme)

tonyb

True John.....I was gonna say we do a damn fine job at making an **** out of ourselves but other nations have copied that too. :biggrin:

Comes down to this, in my book anyway. If your the type that doesn't vote, doesn't care who wins or loses, and likes others to decide your fate for you, then stfu and stop complaining about the cards handed to you, because you will be told what to earn, eat or drink, what temperture your thermostat needs to be, what car to drive, what to worship, what limited speech feels like, what doctor you can see, and even your own life and death will be put into anothers hands. Even wether or not you can breast feed or use baby formula. Every aspect of your day to day will be micro managed by someone else. If on the other hand you do vote, you love the freedoms afforded you in the past, the ability to earn what your worth....and actually keep most of it, love some privacy, some security, and knowing your kids have a better future to look forward to than you did, then the time is now to get off the couch and do alittle work towards your beliefs. Nobody is too small to make a difference. Not much more can be said on this, either we prevail together or fall apart together. I like prevailing myself, how about you ?

gimpod

nooshinjohn wrote: »

LOL... Gimpod my friend, we should talk sometime. :cool:

That could be a bit of a sticky wicket as we would both have to have use of our family's brain cell at the same time.:eek::razz::cheesygrin:

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I don't care if the rich get richer, because that means they are doing well and everybody else tends to follow suit, but I do agree that along with all of the reforms and rebuilding going on, we need to restore a Japanese-style sense of HONOR, ETHICS and ACCOUNTABILITY. If we accept nothing less than that from those in charge, there is nothing that will ever change.

Nail, Hammer, Head. I don't care if you get rich from the sweat of your own brow as a matter of fact I say good for you but if you getting rich and powerful off the pain and misfortune of others or through pure greed without regard to others then you (not you in-particular) don't deserve a place on this planet.

pepster wrote: »

"Stupid Political Ads"
The original topic.


Will Rogers said it best: "A fool and his money are soon elected"!

What's the point, they have to be that's how you get elected and besides when you've only got 5 - 15 seconds what else are you going to do ? Talk about the issues I don't think so, You're ether going to attack your opponent or do some stupid touchy feelly thing. Ether way all these political ads do is make me feel like I need to take a shower after seeing them.

tonyb wrote: »

Sometimes reality has to hit enough people in the face before they get a clue. Unfortunately we have been subsidizing the reality out of the equation for some time. You can only kick that can so far down the road until you run out of road. The last financial downfall will pale in comparison to the next if action isn't taken now, drastic action. But....all we hear from our leaders is social issues that nobody gives a hoot about except some fringe groups. Not a peep about all the tax increases comming the first of the year, or the ever expanding debt we keep taking on. Actions have consequences, so they say, but so does no action.

We are in such a hole, that drastic cuts would have to be sustained for at least 10 years to even make a dent. How would that even be possible given the changing political climate every 4-8 years ? And how would raising taxes be sustainable over the long term for economic growth ? Wages have been stagnant for some time now while taxes and cost of living keep climbing, keeping pressure on the lower and middle classes. Add to that the huge loss of jobs and a housing market in the toilet, and you have a very dismal outlook for the future. Takes time to turn all that around, and what we have been doing the past 4 years obviously isn't working and only making things worse. I don't think in my years, I've seen the country as divided as today. The rich and the poor, the left and the right, racial issues, religions all upset, unions and non union workers, states against the federal government, Upper class, middle class,lower classes.....all fighting on who should pay their "fair share". You have citizens fighting for privacy, security, and a chance to make a buck while every step of the way government on all levels fights against the very things it's suppose to protect. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to know something "ain't right" with those down Washington way. Some times in our history called for change, real drastic change, this is another one of those times. Question is, are you man or woman enough to partake in that, or sit your **** on the couch come november and not vote ?

I agree with you on this but if you vote who are you going to vote for (a rhetorical question). From what I've seen on the most part there isn't anybody running that has the brain power to be able to find there own anal **** if they had there head stuck in it which most of them do. The one's worth voting for once in office for a year or two have ether been co-oped, corrupted or made to be ignored to the point of being useless. Unfortunately in this country we don't have away to immediately replace an elected official, no were stuck with there BS for 4 - 6 years.

The only way to truly start to fix the problem (The government) is to replace everybody from the top down all at once but unfortunately our system is set up so such a thing can't and won't happen through the voting booth.

Like I've eluded to before it's to late, short of a massive revolution it's all going down the crapper. On the bright side hopefully I'll be dead before it all hits the fan.

nooshinjohn

gimpod wrote: »

Nail, Hammer, Head. I don't care if you get rich from the sweat of your own brow as a matter of fact I say good for you but if you getting rich and powerful off the pain and misfortune of others or through pure greed without regard to others then you (not you in-particular) don't deserve a place on this planet.

That's the reason we should increase the NASA budget... send 'em all to Mars.:cheesygrin:

As far as who to vote for? just keep supporting the lesser of two evils. That choice is up to you, and it may not seem like much now, but if we keep doing this consistantly, eventually they will get the point and change their ways, or be exposed for the waste of a sperm cell they are and marginalized to the point of irrelevance. I do think we need to keep a few around (like Reid and Pelosi) so folks can be reminded of just how stupid we used to be.

vcwatkins

Term limits please.

nooshinjohn

vcwatkins wrote: »

Term limits please.

Term limits give the lazy an excuse to not care. Our Republic will fail unless the citizenry do their part to protect it. How hard is it really in the day of instant information to spend ten minutes a week to stay informed?

gimpod

nooshinjohn wrote: »

That's the reason we should increase the NASA budget... send 'em all to Mercury.:cheesygrin:

Fixed it for ya.:cheesygrin:

nooshinjohn wrote: »

As far as who to vote for? just keep supporting the lesser of two evils. That choice is up to you, and it may not seem like much now, but if we keep doing this consistantly, eventually they will get the point and change their ways, or be exposed for the waste of a sperm cell they are and marginalized to the point of irrelevance. I do think we need to keep a few around (like Reid and Pelosi) so folks can be reminded of just how stupid we used to be.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Term limits give the lazy an excuse to not care. Our Republic will fail unless the citizenry do their part to protect it. How hard is it really in the day of instant information to spend ten minutes a week to stay informed?

I agree and I'm part of the problem, Like so many others I've gotten so disillusioned and jaded by the whole political process that I just don't see the point in participating anymore, Nothing ever seems to change it just keeps getting worse and more of a really bad joke.

To everyone who still see's a point in participating !! PLEASE PLEASE !! don't let me or my views dissuade you from participating as a matter of fact get more involved as you may be our last best hope for salvation (Not meant as a joke).

nooshinjohn

We need you too brother. One voice can scream in the woods all day long only to be eaten by the wolves come nightfall. If you make your voice heard, and others stand with you, at least you have a fighting chance of getting out of those woods and maybe with a fur coat to boot. The last time I have witnessed this country as divided and just flat-out miserable were those years between 1972 and 1982... I think this time is much worse, and if it is to get better, we all need our shoulders to the wheel.

markmarc

nooshinjohn wrote: »

We need you too brother. One voice can scream in the woods all day long only to be eaten by the wolves come nightfall. If you make your voice heard, and others stand with you, at least you have a fighting chance of getting out of those woods and maybe with a fur coat to boot. The last time I have witnessed this country as divided and just flat-out miserable were those years between 1972 and 1982... I think this time is much worse, and if it is to get better, we all need our shoulders to the wheel.

Couldn't agree more Noosh. One of the problems is that the public mirrors DC right now. There are loud mouths on both sides with nothing to offer but sound bites (or rapid partian posters images on Facebook). While the worthwhile quality members of Congress (and public) work at doing their part to improve things. I honestly believe the only way to start digging out of the mess is by following Simpson/Bowles. The psychological effect alone I believe will boost the confidence in the economy and lead to growth and jobs. It isn't perfect, but I believe it at least resets the financial trajectory.

mrbigbluelight

Regarding political ads, be prepared for some real mud-slinging to come out of the Senatorial race in Missouri (Todd Akin vs Claire McCaskill).

Mr. Akin, on a reasonably responsible local television talk show, voiced some rather archaic viewpoints regarding issues that are of particular concern regarding women.
Up until this point, Ms. McCaskill had been trailing Mr. Akin in the polls by about 10%.

Her campaign is going to jump on his remarks like a duck on a june bug (as they should, IMO). Instead of simply stating their strong opposition to such viewpoints, though, we can expect to see local ads that threaten "Todd Akins wants to break into your house and eat your childrens' faces !!!" type of crap.
And Mr. Akins campaign, seeing their candidate heading into the toilet at light speed, will break out their "Claire McCaskill wants to drain the blood of your children to fuel her private plane !!!!" malarkey.

As someone mentioned, in a race where both candidates are bad, pick the lesser of two evils.
In this case, however, ...... like trying to pick corn out of a roadside cowpie. You may get lucky, but it's still going to stink.

The major parties apparatus don't care, though. All they want is a semi-effective talking mouthpiece.
As someone once said, "Doesn't matter which wing you vote for, the fllight plan ain't gonna change."

Still going to vote, though. Have to try, no matter how hopeless it may seem (and it does appear to be pretty hopeless). Pretty bad when "Donald the ****ing Duck" almost becomes a legitimate alternative as a write-in vote.


P.S. Steppenwolf's "Monster"; worth a listen, IMO.