Stupid Political Ads

deronb1

It's only mid Aug and I am already sick of the bombardment of pointless, meanspirited ads. Only bright spot is that I am turning off the tube and listening to more music :cheesygrin:

[Deleted User]

Agreed. Can't hit MUTE fast enough. :cool:

tonyb

Yep, gets rediculous around election time. Should be a shorter period, 2 years is stupid. A president barely gets into office and has to worry about re election pretty quick. That pretty much drives what legislation comes out, it's all election based dog poo rather than whats needed or best for the country.

rvito

Thats why i dont turn my tv on much.

steveinaz

Mean spirited ads have been shown in study after study to work. So what does that say about we, the voter?

Here's a scary statistic, less then 1/5 of America chooses the President*. No wonder everyone is angry, but it's our own fault for NOT VOTING. Register, and VOTE. Soldiers have died preserving that right for you.

*Per Federal Voting Commission Report of 2005. Apprx 65% of eligible voters bother to register, of of that 65%, only 66% of them voted in 2008's election. Keep in mind, the 2008 voter turn-out was one of this nations highest turn-outs. Pityful.

nooshinjohn

steveinaz wrote: »

Mean spirited ads have been shown in study after study to work. So what does that say about we, the voter?

Says that we as a collective are about as dumb as they (politicians)think we are. As proof of that, I give you the last 12 years of BS.

steveinaz

The numbers show the problem, 20% of Americans decide for the other 80%. That's the other 80%'s fault.

nooshinjohn

steveinaz wrote: »

The numbers show the problem, 20% of Americans decide for the other 80%. That's the other 80%'s fault. Here's a scary statistic, less then 1/5 of America chooses the President*. No wonder everyone is angry, but it's our own fault for NOT VOTING. Register, and VOTE. Soldiers have died preserving that right for you.

Amen... those that tune out because they are fed up with the process are the reason the process is a mess in the first place. If you are fed up and angry about the way things are going... VOTE!

Sometimes we need to hold our noses as we vote for the least smelly candidate, bu I would rather do that than just sit home and let someone else choose my fate.

Our freedoms are predicated on "one man-one vote" and as a citizen it our duty to do so. A soldier can defend our borders, and a sailor can protect our seas, but it falls to the voter to protect our liberties and that can only be done if you make you voice heard at the ballot box.

wayne3burk

this is why we need a parliamentary system. vote for your local MP (member of parliament) and let the party put their PM (prime minister) forward. No el presidente, no 250 billion dollars spent by Stuper PACs. Just you and your local MP.

nooshinjohn

Parlimentary systems are more corrupt that we are now. As proof, I present the E.U.

steveinaz

Our "system" is just fine. WE are the problem.

cnh

steveinaz wrote: »

Our "system" is just fine. WE are the problem.

Agreed! There are other countries where voting exceeds our percentages by quite a margin. Negative ads usually work and there are some very "famous" ones from the past that I don't want to get into here. It is a bit ridiculous for either "side" to claim they don't/haven't engaged in them!

Our politics should never be about who can "raise" the most money for a campaign or who can "run" the most negative ads, or who can get the media to spin things "their" way. It should be a real contest between two citizens who themselves are fairly "representative" of the people they serve who engage each other and not their Political personas and constituencies in order to address real problems that people have and want solved.

The problem, as mentioned above. Just "who" are these people and "where" are they. They "are" largely absent. Don't vote! And that's a shame regardless of what your politics are!

Education is fundamental to a Democracy. If you don't educate your populace, so as to know it is their duty to go to the polls and KNOW why they are going there, how can we say we live in a Democracy? (OK, Representative Democracy, because I know someone will take umbrage).

cnh

steveinaz

Whenever I get into political topics with someone, the first thing I ask them is if they vote. If they answer no, I tell them the conversation is over, because thier opinion doesn't matter.

F1nut

steveinaz wrote: »

Whenever I get into political topics with someone, the first thing I ask them is if they vote. If they answer no, I tell them the conversation is over, because thier opinion doesn't matter.

Bingo!!!

I always vote.

nooshinjohn

cnh wrote: »

Education is fundamental to a Democracy. If you don't educate your populace, so as to know it is their duty to go to the polls and KNOW why they are going there, how can we say we live in a Democracy? (OK, Representative Democracy, because I know someone will take umbrage).

cnh

I take UMBRAGE my good sir!

This country, as founded, is a Representative REPUBLIC, not a democracy. Perhaps some more of that education you speak of is in order.

Democracy:
Involves the government ruling and making laws for the "greater good" of all people, they may abolish personal rights in doing so.
Democracy is government by and for the people. They may or may not be republics--that is, government limited by constitution or charter.
The tricky part of "democracy" is defining "the people" and then deciding what counts as "by the people" and what counts as "for the people." In a sense, that could be considered the content of democratic practice.
Citizens are expected to participate more actively in a democracy.


Republic:
Involves the government using and abiding by the constitution heavily. Personal rights are respected and cannot be taken away. This helps to avoid tyranny and mobocracy (the majority makes laws and governs by passion, prejudice, or impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences).
Republics are the common and "standard" type of governments found today, not democracies, despite what many people (who may not know the definition of either) think.
Just as democracies may or may not be republics, republics may or may not be democracies.


The difference between Democracy and Republic:
Democracy and Republic are two forms of government which are distinguished by their treatment of the Minority, and the Individual, by the Majority.
In a Democracy, the Majority has unlimited power over the Minority. This system of government does not provide a legal safeguard of the rights of the Individual and the Minority. It has been referred to as "Majority over Man".
In a Republic, the Majority is Limited and constrained by a written Constitution which protects the rights of the Individual and the Minority. The purpose of a Republic form of government is to control the Majority and to protect the God-given, inalienable rights and liberty of the Individual.
The United States of America is founded as a Republic under the Constitution.

from wiki...

cnh

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I take UMBRAGE my good sir!

This country, as founded, is a Representative REPUBLIC, not a democracy. Perhaps some more of that education you speak of is in order.

See, I told you so! And a Representative Republic has what form of "voting", please? What is the political "process" called?

"Just as democracies may or may not be republics, republics may or may not be democracies" from your own quote John. I'd say we're fine. A matter of semantics and how detailed you wish to get.

It's really a MATH problem of union vs. intersection in a Venn Diagram. Remember those?

cnh

nooshinjohn

cnh wrote: »

See, I told you so! And a Representative Republic has what form of "voting", please? What is the political "process" called? "Just as democracies may or may not be republics, republics may or may not be democracies" from your own quote John. I'd say we're fine. A matter of semantics and how detailed you wish to get.


cnh

It doesn't matter what the process is called, we are a Republic. And it is NOT a matter of "semantics". Our founders looked heavily at failed democracies from history and intentionally guided us AWAY from them for a reason. DEMOCRACIES FAIL. They morph before our eyes into horrific things like what rose up in Germany, Italy, Soviet Union and in what we are seeing take root around the globe today courtesy of the so-called "Arab Spring". They called themselves "democracies" as well. We will not be "fine" until we educate ourselves about our founding documents, and the men and women responsible for the thought that went into them. What good is being educated on this subject if you fail to unerstand it?

cnh

Don't disagree. What's your point? That there is no Democartic process? Or? Everyone knows the way this Gov't works as described above in your own quote, we learn as much in High School?

cnh

cnh

nooshinjohn wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the process is called, we are a Republic. And it is NOT a matter of "semantics". Our founders looked heavily at failed democracies from history and intentionally guided us AWAY from them for a reason. DEMOCRACIES FAIL. They morph before our eyes into horrific things like what rose up in Germany, Italy, Soviet Union and in what we are seeing take root around the globe today courtesy of the so-called "Arab Spring". They called themselves "democracies" as well. We will not be "fine" until we educate ourselves about our founding documents, and the men and women responsible for the thought that went into them. What good is being educated on this subject if you fail to unerstand it?

OK, I got you. You want to take this opportunity to once again remind us that our constitution is paramount and infallible. Right? That's fine. I was playing loose with my terminology above because I was alluding to Democratic process, perhaps I need to write my copy on this site as an "attorney" from now on. lol

I will make sure that I pass everything I write about this by my personal attorney in the future so that all possible innuendos and alternative interpretations of my meanings are covered. John, I like you but you've got it bad! You know and "I" know that "I" know all of this!

I think we're OK!

cnh

steveinaz

It's all good stuff. Hell, I never stop learning, and the day I do---shoot me.

cnh

steveinaz wrote: »

It's all good stuff. Hell, I never stop learning, and the day I do---shoot me.

It's all cool! Some of my ancestors were probably Socrates, Plato and Aristotle (most of whom I've read extensively). Plato makes the same point about Democracies turning into mob rule and devolving into Tyranny in the Republic (among other places). He despised the Athens that put his mentor to death! But the Republic itself, brilliant as it is as a philosophical discourse, also reflects the history of the Peloponnesian war and Athens ultimate defeat, and most Americans would find the Republic terribly repressive and totalitarian.

If you've ever been to a cafe in Athens, you can still see as many political views as there are people at any table. It's really something to behold. And perhaps even envy. Greece may be an economic mess, but it does have a largely educated citizenry even if they are petulant at times!

cnh

nooshinjohn

cnh wrote: »

John, I like you but you've got it bad! You know and "I" know that "I" know all of this!

I think we're OK!

cnh

:cheesygrin:LOL

I like you too man. Next time you are in L.A. perhaps we can get some good Chinese beer and toss a few back. I guess I do "got it bad" for this kind of stuff lagrely because I was not taught these things in high school. Even back in the early '80's, we were being taught that our nation was a democracy, our founders were bad guys and that capitalism was the root of all evil. I even had a poli-sci teacher fail me because in a stock trading exercise set in the 1920's. I first bought ATT stock and then dumped it all and bought GM with the ATT earnings. When I far out-earned everyone in the class by my choices, she accused me of cheating and stealing her lesson plans. She then told everyone in the class that I was wrong amd cheated to get my results.

I knew history, and showed her where she was wrong, but the failing grade stood. i ended up walking for an empty diploma and attending summer school my senior year. I then began to look casually into much of the other crap I had to learn, and concluded that for the most part it was just that... crap.

Memorizing names and dates, or a preamble isn't history. History must be understood and embraced, the good, bad and ugly, if we are to see to it that we become a better people, and a better nation.

Sorry CNH for being that way about it, but with all the dis-information and falsehood out there, that is the only what I know how to be

cnh

nooshinjohn wrote: »

:cheesygrin:LOL

I like you too man. Next time you are in L.A. perhaps we can get some good Chinese beer and toss a few back. I guess I do "got it bad" for this kind of stuff lagrely because I was not taught these things in high school. Even back in the early '80's, we were being taught that our nation was a democracy, our founders were bad guys and that capitalism was the root of all evil. I even had a poli-sci teacher fail me because in a stock trading exercise set in the 1920's. I first bought ATT stock and then dumped it all and bought GM with the ATT earnings. When I far out-earned everyone in the class by my choices, she accused me of cheating and stealing her lesson plans. She then told everyone in the class that I was wrong amd cheated to get my results.

I knew history, and showed her where she was wrong, but the failing grade stood. i ended up walking for an empty diploma and attending summer school my senior year. I then began to look casually into much of the other crap I had to learn, and concluded that for the most part it was just that... crap.

Memorizing names and dates, or a preamble isn't history. History must be understood and embraced, the good, bad and ugly, if we are to see to it that we become a better people, and a better nation.

Sorry CNH for being that way about it, but with all the dis-information and falsehood out there, that is the only what I know how to be

That's hard to believe. But I'm a little older than you are. In my time American History was a two year sequence requirement in history and even though that was during the tail end of the war in Vietnam there wasn't much partisanship in the way it was taught. The only problem as I remember it was that the guy who taught it would have gotten into trouble today for sexual harassment. Because he flirted with every "cute" girl in the class. lol

I grew up with the Pledge of Allegiance and "duck and cover" in the cold war period. I'm not sure what they're doing these days. But I have a 14 year old daughter who starts year two of H.S. this year. She's informed me that American History is a ONE year course? I don't think that is an improvement!

Will look you up next time I am in your area. Conferences occasionally get us out to L.A.

cnh

Timothy Smith

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I take UMBRAGE my good sir!

This country, as founded, is a Representative REPUBLIC, not a democracy. Perhaps some more of that education you speak of is in order.

from wiki...

Jonah Goldberg wrote something like:

"You wouldn't like living in a "true" democracy, because that would mean that 51% of the people could decide to piss in the other 49% of the people's cornflakes.

nooshinjohn

cnh wrote: »

That's hard to believe. But I'm a little older than you are. In my time American History was a two year sequence requirement in history and even though that was during the tail end of the war in Vietnam there wasn't much partisanship in the way it was taught. The only problem as I remember it was that the guy who taught it would have gotten into trouble today for sexual harassment. Because he flirted with every "cute" girl in the class. lol


cnh

True on the teachers checking out the skirts.:eek:

The latter-day flower children were really beginning to grab things by the horns when I was going, through there were still enough of the "old Guard" on hand to balance them out. I had a science teacher though that I will never forget. In 1983, he told my class that if one of them could figure out how to squeeze a 4 foot flourecent tube into the light socket of a standard household lamp, that we could save the planet. He also told us that the internal combustion engine that us guys were so into (426 Hemi's were cheap then) was actually killing the earth and we would have no oil left by 2010. Our world history teacher was a retired professor of european history at some college, and she knew her stuff.

We had things in Social Studies that today fry my brain to think about, though I do remember that it was an experimental class with two teachers. The class was broken down into groups they called "pods". One teacher in particular had this "anti-colonial" bent to him that centered around a guy named Nelson Mandella... This was the first class I remember not saying the pledge of allegiance in... It should also be mentioned that the new wave of teachers loved rock and roll... were seen as "cool" by the kids and had a profound impact on the kids while the older ones that I tended to gravitate too were almost shunned, and certainly ridiculed for the way they ran their classrooms.

No doubt in my mind that my school was at the fore of the new wave of education.

oldmodman

I pay absolutely no attention to any of the political ads.

After all, I knew who I WASN'T going to vote for in the 2012 elections way back in Nov 2008.

deronb1

The point of this thread is not a voting issue. I ALWAYS vote, and I know for whom I am going to vote for in the election. No ad is going to change my position. My point is that I am tired of looking at and hearing these ads. One candidate spends millions saying something about the other candidate, and then the other guy spends millions saying that what the first guy said is not true. Draining and quite frankly, I'm just embarassed for the lot of em.

nooshinjohn

deleted...

sucks2beme

I'm voting Libertarian. No PACS have been over there passing out money.
They won't win, but if they get enough to force a runoff, the process
will never be the same again. Both parties have been hijacked and
are out of touch. 90% of their parties' platforms are meaningless dribble
to most of us.

nooshinjohn

sucks2beme wrote: »

I'm voting Libertarian. No PACS have been over there passing out money.
They won't win, but if they get enough to force a runoff, the process
will never be the same again. Both parties have been hijacked and
are out of touch. 90% of their parties' platforms are meaningless dribble
to most of us.

Better to pick the main party candidate closest to your beliefs at this point. A vote for anything else simply does the same as not voting at all, and if you are a libertarian, I know there is one guy that would love to see you throw your vote away. The only way to win is to vote them in and then let them know you aren't afraid to vote them out if they fail to do what is right. Just ask the establishment guys that got booted all over the country these last two cycles how that's working. Both parties have been hijacked, you are correct there sir. What I am saying is we need to take them back, one douchebag at a time.

Polkie2009

+1000 John, excellent point. Down here in Texas, we are sick and tired of the assclown career politicians and kicking them to the curb by voting in people who truly love this country and our Constitution.