Adding amp to A9s

photocrazy

I read a lot about how A9s shine with an external amp. Currently I have A9/CsiA6/RtiA4 set up. what is the most obvious thing i would notice with an amp ?

cfrizz

Better bass, better dynamics, greater clarity in music, vocals, and dialog. Get a 5 channel amp of at least 200wpc @ 8ohms and be prepared to be amazed at what you hear.

chumlie

I can only speak about the 7's. I assume the 9's will be the same. Alot more detail & clarity at moderate volume. Which only improves as the volume goes up.

gfong

What type of power and avr are you using now to run them? Are you interests in movies or 2 channel music?

photocrazy

gfong wrote: »

What type of power and avr are you using now to run them? Are you interests in movies or 2 channel music?

currently I am using Pio vsx-1325, which is the clone of vsx-33. I am using the setup for music and movies in the ratio 60:40

Inspector 24

cfrizz wrote: »

Better bass, better dynamics, greater clarity in music, vocals, and dialog. Get a 5 channel amp of at least 200wpc @ 8ohms and be prepared to be amazed at what you hear.

This. Absolutely. Before a separate amp the A9's needed a subwoofer to make music come alive, now they're perfect on their own. The only time a sub is needed is for electronic/dance music, and even then it's crossed over at 40hz as the a9's are fantastic on their own.

It made movies more enveloping, suddenly sound wasn't just coming from speakers, but all around to the sides, above and below them! Explosions had punch, ever piece of shattering glass can be heard!!

For smaller speakers it may not be as necessary...I was fine with older, smaller, less power hungry RT models before the RTi series. They're a power hungry bunch, but pay back big time with adequate power.

Also agreed on the 200wpc, I drove them first with the AVR's paltry 120wpc, had a big step up with the Parasound HCA-1206 @ 135wpc, and an even bigger jump to the Parasound HCA-2003 with 220wpc, now I'm incredibly happy with them, do everything I could ask and then some!

ravaneli

the receivers don't have good amplification. An amp will allow you to listen much louder without distortion.

However on low volumes there will be no audible difference. Nobody here will pick your receiver from a great amp if volume is -30db in a test. That thing about clarity, vocals and whatnot is heavily exaggerated too.

That is not to say that there will not be a big difference though! Starting from mid, and going to high volumes the amp WILL add 'depth' because the speakers will get enough power for the low frequencies. Also where the receiver is pushed and starting to distort, the amp will still provide signal with almost no distortion, so on high volumes you will notice 'cleaner' sounding music too.

Also, buying an amp makes you feel SOOO GOOD! Don't underestimate that. I don't know anyone who bought an amp and regretted the purchase, no matter what the amp. The only issue is can you afford it.

photocrazy

ravaneli wrote: »

An amp will allow you to listen much louder without distortion.

However on low volumes there will be no audible difference. Nobody here will pick your receiver from a great amp if volume is -30db in a test. That thing about clarity, vocals and whatnot is heavily exaggerated too.

I have to clarify that I live in a condo, so I can't be very loud. My decision to go with an amp is not for playing it loud. But I wanted to know if I would notice the difference in bass, as A9s pack 3 x 7".

ravaneli

up to a point the bass will be the same. It really depends on your listening levels. If you listen at -30 db and the A9s use 15W at that point, both the amp and the receiver will power them without audible distortion. There is no visible line. The higher you go, the more you push your receiver, the more you push it, the more it will distort and the bigger will be the difference with a good amp.

I know you will buy one anyway, don't fight it, nobody can resist the upgrade virus : ) The amps look very cool on the entertainment center! : )

Just don't spend money on anything exotic or tube. Adcom, Rotel, Parasoun, Carver make great amps that are quite affordable. Outlaw and Emotiva are not as good as the above when bench measured, but human ear can't pick the difference, so consider those too. And lastly, QSC and Behringer have amps with even lower distortion than Emotiva and they really cheap! They are different type of amp though, build quality is not as good, there are no heatsinks and they are cooled by fans, which could be noisy. But if you turn down the fan, they sound fantastic. I tested 3 of them already and I loved all 3 of them. Depending on your budget buy them in this order. My 0.02

Dawgfish

^^I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!^^ Tip your server and try the veal, hey!

tonyb

photocrazy wrote: »

I have to clarify that I live in a condo, so I can't be very loud. My decision to go with an amp is not for playing it loud. But I wanted to know if I would notice the difference in bass, as A9s pack 3 x 7".

Short answer is yes. You'll notice a better seperation of instruments and sharper tones particularly lower bass tones. Kick drums will have more kick, and soundstage should widen with a more extended top end. Having an amp is like having a V8 engine in a Honda civic, your going to have that urge to turn it up, see what it can do. Being in a condo, don't know if thats wise though. The A9's themselves maybe overkill for a condo. Lets face it, neighbors are your limiting factor here. Maybe save the coin until you buy your own place and are able to unleash the beast.

Dawgfish

Adding an external amp is much more than simply adding power and increasing dbs. Even at lower volume levels you will notice many benifits with a good quality amp as Tony B mentioned above. Increased bass and definition, better imaging and detail, and a much wider and deeper soundstage in most cases. To me adding a good amp is more of a quality of power versus quantity thing. You will notice the benefits of good clean power even at lower listening levels.

tonyb

Dawgfish wrote: »

^^I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!^^ Tip your server and try the veal, hey!

HEHE.....was gonna go there, but I jump on the poor lad enough, thought someone else should have a turn.:cheesygrin:

Inspector 24

I too noticed better definition and separation at lower volume levels with the amp vs the AVR. Even at lower volume levels the bass seems punchier, more robust. The character of the speaker changed a bit too. The a9's are known for being a very 'froward' speaker, ie, the sound really jumps out at you. The AVR made this worse, and made them sharp, edgy and induced a lot of listening fatigue after a while. The addition of the Parasound didn't do a lot to change their very 'forward' nature, but it smoothed and richened the sound and got rid of most of the listening fatigue. A few room and EQ changes did the rest.

Dawgfish

tonyb wrote: »

HEHE.....was gonna go there, but I jump on the poor lad enough, thought someone else should have a turn.:cheesygrin:

Thanks! I debated whether to just ignore it or not, but after reading that post over a few times and saying to myself "wrong, nope, that's just not right," I couldn't resist. I tried to show restraint, but just couldn't.

halo71

Dawgfish wrote: »

^^I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!^^ Tip your server and try the veal, hey!

All kinds of sig material in that post! I actually read it twice. lol

ravaneli

Inspector 24 wrote: »

I too noticed better definition and separation.
Even at lower volume levels the bass seems punchier, more robust.
The character of the speaker changed a bit too.
The AVR made this worse, and made them sharp, edgy and induced a lot of listening fatigue after a while.
The addition of the Parasound smoothed and richened the sound and got rid of most of the listening fatigue.

this is the audio quasi pornographic language that passes for experience and good advice around here. 'smoothened, richened' oh-my-gawd! Do you seriously believe in this junk? U can't possibly honestly to yourself believe it.

Listen, mate, think with yo head. The output of any good amplifier is it INPUT! That's it! There is no better than that! If you amplify the input and reproduce it 1:1, you have a theoretically perfect amplifier. They have no soul (H9 sig), no character, no liquidity, no smoothness no other ****. They have frequency response, distortion, input output impedance, channel crosstalk.. these kind of things. You have to accept that. That is the science. The rest is audio porno.

Now, back to his point, I agree that Parasound makes fantastic amps. I have not seen a single bad bench test of a parasound amp on Stereophille or Audio Critic. Parasound amps amplify signal and still keep it 1:1 with the original.

All of that said, THE ONLY WAY FOR THE PARASOUND TO SOUND BETTER than your AVR, is if your avr has different what? Not different soul or character! But different frequency response, distortion, input output impedance, channel crosstalk.. these kind of things. And the truth is most AVRs are pretty good at amplifying sound at low levels. Never as good as the amp, but the margin of error is so small that it's not audible.

That's the truth, mate. The rest is ****.

F1nut

What's that quote from Doro...something like you can't be that stupid, so quit acting like it.

BlueFox

He was given a scholarship to "Stupid School" for being exceptionally stupid. His statements consistently show he graduated at the top of his class. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, when I added my Sunfire TGA-5400 to my HT/Surround system I too was amazed at how well the bass became with my LSI15s. It was very precise and defined.

Inspector 24

Wow...

ravaneli

BlueFox wrote: »

He was given a scholarship to "Stupid School" for being exceptionally stupid. His statements consistently show he graduated at the top of his class. :rolleyes:

Wow.. what a way with words .. you are the Picasso of the insults.. : ) I always get a crack when people like you insult others..

halo71

More sig material.....:cheesygrin: I think Ravioli is related to JuJu!

Inspector 24

But, it's the weekend...so what the hell.

ravaneli wrote: »

this is the audio quasi pornographic language

I so love audio ****.

'smoothened, richened' oh-my-gawd! Do you seriously believe in this junk? U can't possibly honestly to yourself believe it.

Damn right I do. I heard it. I experienced it. I believe it.

Listen, mate,

Aussie?

think with yo head.

Aaah, gangsta.

The output of any good amplifier is it INPUT! That's it! There is no better than that! If you amplify the input and reproduce it 1:1, you have a theoretically perfect amplifier.

Perfect Amplifier?? I'd love to have one of those! Know where I can get one for $500?

They have no soul (H9 sig), no character, no liquidity, no smoothness no other ****. They have frequency response, distortion, input output impedance, channel crosstalk.. these kind of things. You have to accept that. That is the science.

Sure, and all those characteristics, the science, affect the sound, I heard the improvement over the AVR and those were the words I used to describe what I heard. Science works!

The rest is audio porno.

Mmmmmm....****.....

Now, back to his point, I agree that Parasound makes fantastic amps. I have not seen a single bad bench test of a parasound amp on Stereophille or Audio Critic. Parasound amps amplify signal and still keep it 1:1 with the original.

So I have the mythical perfect amplifier?? YAY!! MOAR ****!!!

All of that said, THE ONLY WAY FOR THE PARASOUND TO SOUND BETTER than your AVR, is if your avr has different what? Not different soul or character! But different frequency response, distortion, input output impedance, channel crosstalk.. these kind of things.

GASP! Is THAT why my Parsounds makes better noiseses!?!

And the truth is most AVRs are pretty good at amplifying sound at low levels. Never as good as the amp, but the margin of error is so small that it's not audible.

Sure it is. I heard it. Not everybody can.

That's the truth, mate. The rest is ****.

Dammit, again with the **** talk...I need visuals!!!

Dawgfish

halo71 wrote: »

All kinds of sig material in that post! I actually read it twice. lol

Thanks Gary! Something tells me this guy is going to be a source of inspiration for a multitude of signature material! At least he has that going for him, which is nice! ;-)

ravaneli

You guys belong to some weird audio cult. See, in religion some people intentionally close theirs eyes before some facts, like atrocities in the bible, or mutually exclusive teachings or historical inaccuracies or whatever. People PREFER that there is a Good God who watches over them and takes care of them. It helps them fall asleep. In the same way you people never refer objective and verifiable specifications of audio gear. Instead you use words like soul, character, rich, liquid and whatnot. You would just HATE to see your favorite gear reduced to a graph with a few numbers. There has got to be more to it than that! All good amps with flat response and and low distortion sound the same?? Noooooo , they all sound different! One is better in midrange and one in... whatever.

I think this is the real reason some of you hate me, and will hate anyone who tries to take the magic away from your gear and reduce it to a bunch of numbers.

deronb1

010011100010101110001101001

Dawgfish

ravaneli wrote: »

You guys belong to some weird audio cult. See, in religion some people intentionally close theirs eyes before some facts, like atrocities in the bible, or mutually exclusive teachings or historical inaccuracies or whatever. People PREFER that there is a Good God who watches over them and takes care of them. It helps them fall asleep. In the same way you people never refer objective and verifiable specifications of audio gear. Instead you use words like soul, character, rich, liquid and whatnot. You would just HATE to see your favorite gear reduced to a graph with a few numbers. There has got to be more to it than that! All good amps with flat response and and low distortion sound the same?? Noooooo , they all sound different! One is better in midrange and one in... whatever.

I think this is the real reason some of you hate me, and will hate anyone who tries to take the magic away from your gear and reduce it to a bunch of numbers.

Look man, I don't hate you. Far from it. I just think you are misinformed. There are a lot of folks on here that have years of experience with audio that you prove you don't have each and everytime you post some of the crazy stuff you do. You think we all are misinformed and believe in some sort of vodoo or snake oil. I am a scientist. I believe in what I see,hear, and observe myself. I used to think that a lot of things audio related were nonscence, until I actually heard it for myself. After this happens enough times, you start to realize that the things people with a lot of experience with this stuff are telling is correct.

What upsets people with your posts is you pretend to know all of this factual information on all things audio related becuase you read some bench results from a magazine or web article somewhere without having actually heard the equipment in question yourself. You then tell people with a wealth of experience that actually do have experience with this stuff and have actually heard it with their own two ears that they are wrong! It's obvious to anybody who actually has spent some time listening to this stuff that the things you say most of the time are just flat out wrong and you are misguided. You are willing to believe some bench test report as the only criteria for judging and accepting equipment without having heard it for yourself. As a scientist I realized long ago that the math world is only 100% accurate and applicable in the realm of math itself. Math does approximate most of the things that occur in nature to a large extent, but there are things in nature that will never 100% adhere to the rules and predictions of mathamatics. Mathamatics occurs in the theoritical realm, nature occurs in the realm of reality and there are just things that happen in nature that math will never completely accout for. Audio is definitely one of those things.

I don't expect you to take any of this to heart and frankly this is all I have to say to you if you are never going to listen to things with your own ears and hear for yourself. You really are doing yourself a disfavour, but what do I know. Dee doo doo do dee da da da..........................

B Run

ravaneli wrote: »

You would just HATE to see your favorite gear reduced to a graph with a few numbers.

If I came home and my gear had been reduced into a graph with a few numbers i'd be pretty pissed.

tonyb

Rav, nobody hates you, we just get a kick out of you being so wrong about soo many things audio related.

If numbers on a graph was the be all end all to tell someone how a piece of gear sounds, everyone would be touting these graphs. Personally, I've heard stuff that with the specs....aka numbers said it should sound like crap. But when listened to, sounded pretty good. Most tube gear for instance have crappy numbers, but that has very little bearing on the actual sound. Anyone who says all amps sound the same obviously has not listened to too many.

halo71

ravaneli wrote: »

I think this is the real reason some of you hate me, and will hate anyone who tries to take the magic away from your gear and reduce it to a bunch of numbers.

I don't hate you. I see you as cheap forum entertainment. See the thing is...in pretty much every post you make. About every other word you type is "distortion". lol Also you tend to give bad advice then never own up to it. Just like you telling that other poster his receiver was the problem. When it wasn't. You act like you are the only one around here that knows anything. You've been called out on this many times. But you continue to give out bad advice.

As I said before. Not knowing is one thing, admit to it. Stop acting like you are some audio God around here, cause you're not!

nguyendot

Very entertaining.