Thoughts on subs???

jlp1313

Im running PIONEER ELITE SC-55, RTI A7's fronts, CSI A4 cent, RTI A1 rear, POLK PSW10 sub.. Im looking to upgrade my sub and have bn goin crazy tryn to find the rite one and have limited cash so ive found some that might wrk?? DEF TECH PRO SUB800 $308 used.. POLK DSW 550wi $299 refurb.. HSU VTF2 $199 used.. ENERGY S-10.3 $200 new..??

ravaneli

for music or HT?

For HT any big ported sub is OK. It just moves air. I don't think anyone can say - oh, this explosion did not sound accurate!

For music though.. very tricky.. I ended up buying a 12" speaker woofer from partsexpress ( 2 of them) and put them in a small sealed bod and powered them with my B&K amp. INCREDIBLE. so light, any tap on the drums no matter how slight is produced accurately. No way my DSW 660 PRO can ever sound like that.

Where do u live by the way? I may be interested in parting with my DSW 660. Loud is just not my thing any more..

VTO888

Agreed...looks like your going after theater sound. I've heard good things about the HSU's . Just make sure you get one that you can match in the future in case you want to do dual subs.

chiptouz

VTO888 wrote: »

Agreed...looks like your going after theater sound. I've heard good things about the HSU's . Just make sure you get one that you can match in the future in case you want to do dual subs.

I just purchased a HSU (pronounced shoe) Research vtf3-mk4 and could not be happier. That with the rest of my setup is amazing. I picked one up for $649 (fathers day price) + shipping ($90). I would not make a change what so ever other than an external amp for my a7's in the future.

HSU Research customer service spend quite a bit of time helping me set this up and I am so amazed.

Now other subs that I looked at were the SVS PB12-nsd which was about the same cost $769 + free shipping. At the local audio place they recommended teh paradigm DSP3100 or 3200. I also seriously considered the Polk DSWpro600 $680. I just love polk, but went with the HSU.

jlp1313

Im in NJ...50/50 HT/music depends on mood..I want a very accurate n real sound not so much loud .. i live in an apartment 1st flr.. Also being that i have a psw10 should i b setting my RTI a7's to large or small ??

doggie750

SVS ....., heard about HSU as well. I'll consider Def tech too if space is limited.

B Run

Check out Elemental Designs as well, great subs for the money. Just went from an SVS to an Elemental, and it was a substantial upgrade.

steveinaz

Like anything else, you get what you pay for, and a $200-$300 sub doesn't get you much. Your A7's will probably produce better bass than a $300 sub.

Erik Tracy

steveinaz wrote: »

Like anything else, you get what you pay for, and a $200-$300 sub doesn't get you much. Your A7's will probably produce better bass than a $300 sub.

What he said.

Better to save up to step up.

jlp1313

I understand but all of the subs i mentioned except the energy s10 retail for $499 isnt that a good price range for a quality sub ???

steveinaz

You have to look at what your mains are already capable of. Less expensive subs tend to over-rate their stated capabilities in the frequencies that we buy them for, and rarely meet the needs in real world use. Even really good subs struggle with the lowest frequencies, so you can imagine how poor the real world performance of a <$600 sub is. People waaaay under estimate the needs of clean sub power for HT...I think it's far more demanding than 2-channel; and this assumption of "well, if it's just for HT it'll be OK" is counter-intuitive in my experience.

IMO, your better off letting your mains reproduce the bass until you can get into a sub that will truly "wow" you with excellent performance and musicality.

The subs you mention might be fine for someone running bookshelf mains, but I'd hate to see you buy one for your current system, just to be disappointed with the purchase a month from now; when that $300 bucks could be thrown in the "kitty" for something more substantial that'll give you a taste of the real thing.

Patience, grasshopper. Better to cry once, than compromise and cry twice.

jlp1313

lol.. w/ the psw10 i get more bass than the 7's specially if the volume is turned up on the sub but then it gets boomy IDK this stuff is a never ending money pit ..lol..I was told by polk that the DSW550 would b good, anyway in ur opinion what sub would b ideal for my setup ???

Erik Tracy

Maybe this
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

steveinaz

JLP1313;
Your sub's -3dB extension is only 40Hz, your 7's reach to 35Hz at -3dB down. What you're hearing isn't "deeper" bass, it's just a bunch of extra 40-50Hz energy. More bass doesn't necessarily mean deeper bass. Your towers produce more bass than your sub currently, and likely do it much better (cleaner).

If you can do the $600-$800 range (less if you go used), it's a pretty substantial upgrade in sub quality offered by a number of manufacturers. With your mains comfortably doing doing 35Hz, you'd probably want a sub that is no more than -3dB down at 25Hz---and you'll want at least 200watts rms power. Realistic bass requires a boat-load of power.

rooftop59

JLP1313,
I think that there are several issues here. First is that even though you have a very nice receiver, a separate power amp like an adcom gfa 545 or 555 or a parasound hca 1000 or 1200 which give you deeper, tighter bass from those a7s. I think that an amp would be a better investment of 200-300 smackers. The second issue is that not all sub $500 subs are created equal. In my experience, both the HSU and the Energy should hit hard and tight with greater decibel output and lower extension (probably down to the mid 20s in-room) than your mains. I currently own a larger HSU, and they are incredible for the money and probably offer 2-3 times the performance of national brands sold in stores for the same price. I have also owned the mirage version of that sub (mirage and energy USED TO make great subs, and they are essentially the same) as well as other mirage and energy subs and if those other subs are any indication then that energy sub will blow away anything that polk has made in the past (now I have NOT heard the new dsw series FWIW).

So if I were you I would be in a dilemma, but considering that you live in an apartment and say this is for 50/50 music and movies, I would look into getting an amp. You a7s will sound much better on music and will give you more bass for movies. There have been several threads here of late referring to just how well the a7s and a9s can do for HT on their own if you give them the proper power.

Good Luck!

tonyb

I'll agree with Steve, the 7's are way better than that psw10. Save your coin, buy a sub thats worth playing with the 7's. Your just spinning your wheels otherwise.

steveinaz

Ed Zachry my point. Why pair a mediocre sub with nice towers?

rooftop59

Well, the energy and HSU are not mediocre subs. Will they hit 18 hz at 100+db hard and tight? No. But they are not mediocre and are a vast improvement over his current sub.

I started off with monitor 30s and a psw10 and have had 10 or 15 subs go through my ht. Only my current one can reach the above specs, but a number of the others were very nice and enhanced my enjoyment. BUT I never had nice towers, only bookies.

Having said all that, I do agree that if I had it to do all over again I would have done my homework, save my pennies and do it right. But some people will never spend 600-800 on a sub. So the OP just has to decide...

steveinaz

True, but we need to define "mediocre." Again, why pair a sub with towers, when the towers already likely do a better job? I'd rather see him spend the money elsewwhere; or save, be patient, and get into a better sub.

jlp1313

Thx guys i really appreciate the input.. I was thinkn off gettn an amp but cant find any for a good price n im not sure what amps r good for my setup ????

onebadchad

Parts express has some smoking deals, especially in kit form.. I have bought two and they work just dandy for movies and music, good luck

rooftop59

Well I just named several. Your speakers are considered bright by some so you may want to attempt to "warm" them up a bit with something like a parasound like Steve has. That one may be out of your budget, but I think that a 1200 or even 1000 will still be a pretty nice improvement. You can't go wrong with adcoms, but they are not known for being warm. If you fine a decent deal they are easy to unload so you might want to just try a gfa-545 or 555. If you don't like it you can easily sell it on eBay or audiogon.

newrival

VTO888 wrote: »

Agreed...looks like your going after theater sound. I've heard good things about the HSU's . Just make sure you get one that you can match in the future in case you want to do dual subs.

for LFE, multiple subs do not need to match, and I would submit they would be better if they did not match: Different driver size, different manufacturer, etc. It will make for a flatter in room response. Just get ones of equal quality.

jlp1313

I went on parts-express.com n cant find parasound ?? saw alot of BEHRINGER , CROWN, N PYLE ?? The behringer EP 2000 europower 2-750 for $299.. IDK what to look for from n amp???

rooftop59

He is refering to SUB kits I believe. And there are some pretty solid ones, but not one that is going to beat the Energy and HSu that you listed, at least not for the money.

This may be slightly out of your budget, but man would it make your a7s sing!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130722773363?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1413

ravaneli

I don't think the price factor is everything. I will be shocked if I hear a musical ported sub at any price. But ports are so much more powerful in movies. Here is a cheap and fantastic sounding sub system

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEHRINGER-A500-600W-STUDIO-POWER-AMPLIFIER-AMP-NEW-/370564421598?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56475c57de

2 of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Single-Sealed-Subwoofer-Enclosure-12-Inch-Sub-woofer-Box-3-4-MDF-BXS121-BK-/290676804497?pt=US_Speaker_Sub_Enclosures&hash=item43adb00b91

2 of these

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-434

I had something very similar to this, and I have something similar now. Just different boxes and I changed the amp. Not because i didn't like them but i wanted to try somehting else.

For under 500 you get two supper accurate musical subs.

I have the DSW 660 Pro as well, and it alone is more powerful than both of these but it just doesn't sound true. Like slamming the door in a movie.. these two subs make a distinguished POP and the DSW make BOOM.

I tried a lot of drivers. The subs for cars are enormously powerful but they are just not sensitive and don't have good definition. These dayton audio drivers really give me the accuracy I've been looking for. Any small tapping comes through realistic.

Oh, and don't care about watts or low frequency response that much. Do you know that sub with twice the power is only 7% louders (everything else being the same). The db are measured on a log scale. These watts are kind of overrated. And you don't need it to go down to 20 hrz either. For what? To destroy your hearing and bother the neighbors? I had my amp high pass the subwoofers on 30hrz and they sounded better. But now I power my subs with my B&K because i like the sound of my pro amp and my A7s better. I know that's heresy around here, but a QSC 1450HD + 2x A7 is a magic combination.

steveinaz

*sigh*.....

zingo

If you want real bass, go with a horn loaded subwoofer, but that's just me... :cheesygrin:

nguyendot

Tell me, how does 20hz destroy your hearing? I think you need to go back and rethink your comment about that part. You almost sounded like you knew what you were talking about until then. And 2x power is 3db louder. Measured logarithmically not % wise.

steveinaz

He's giving out extremely flawed advice. Bass doesn't require a lot of power? Really? Use car sub woofers? Really? I think I'm putting way too much thought in my replies...LOL

onebadchad

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=536 Yes, referring to kits.. here id the link, lot of bang for the buck