Help with new surround system

sass_shooter

I could really use some help on a new surround system. I am having a wall built in my living room and planning on having the tv mounted and in-wall speakers put it as well. I am pretty iliterate when it comes to surround systems, so any info will be greatly appreciated. I bought an Onkyo HT-rc360 reciever, A pair of Polk RC85I, pair of RC55I, Pair of RC60I, A pair of Polk PSW10 subs, a pair of Klipsch WB-14 bookshelf speakers. I was planning on using the RC85i's for my Front R & L, a RC60I for the center (can I use both?), the RC55i's for the Rear R & L, and the Klipsch for my surrounds(I have a log home so surrounds can't be in-wall). Also, can I use both subs at one time with this system? Does this set-up sound like it will work or do I need to redo my plans? Thanks again for any information.

cr136124

Hi Sass!

I do have a pair of RC80i as my surround speakers and a pair of RC85i as my back surround speakers. The sound of these speakers is really good (having in consideration the price). So, I think your plan of using your RC85i as fronts will work well.

I'm not sure if you are going to have a great result by using the RC60i as center. If you are planning to use this setup for movies, then you are going to have poor results on the dialogue on movies. If you have a chance to return them, I will probably do it and I will buy a formal center channel speaker (something like the 255c-RT). However, if you can't return them, then the option will be to use both (but, not sure how your front stage will look at the end).

In the case of the surround speakers, any particular reason on picking the Klipsch? Good thing is that you don't have to match your surrounds with your fronts, but if you are pretty much using Polk speakers for the other channels; then I should stick to that brand. Again, it is not a big issue. So, you can try the Klipsch speakers as surrounds and see/hear how they behave with the other speakers.

Your receiver is a 7.2, so for sure you can use both subwoofers. Actually, is highly recommended to have a smooth / tight bass.

My two cents!

ravaneli

i have those klipsch bookshelves. They look and sound fantastic and i know newegg sells the pair for 200 right now, so at that price they are hard to beat. By the way, the WF 35 towers are on sale for 330 right now as well, in case u want towers for the front. They are very slim and sophisticated looking and not intrusive in the space at all.

If you are going to use a center, which is not necessary by the way, then you MUST have a good center. more than half of all signal is played through the center. All other speakers are auxiliary once u set up a center, very little content goes through them, mostly ambient sound effects. Even front towers don't play much if you use a center. I am not decided whether a setup with a center is superior. For some reason my A7 towers sound so much better when I don't use a center, even dialogue sounds better, perhaps due to the fact that both tweeters are fully used and the center has only one. Not too sure on this, but one thing I'm sure on - if you go with a center make sure you don't try to save $$ on it and buy a good one.

You can have any number subwoofers with any receiver. Splitting the preout signal makes no difference

cr136124

@ ravaneli

What is the center that you are using with you RTi A7s?

ravaneli

RTi A6

sass_shooter

Thanks, for all of the info. I can't return the 60's, but i"ll just hang on to them and I ordered the 255c-rt ( to use as my center channel.) The only reason I ordered the Klipsch, is because a friend of mine said they were a good speaker for the price.
Also, Would it be better to use the RC55i for my Rears, Or should I use the RC60I's for the Rears? Or does it make a difference?

Thanks, again

cr136124

Well, based on the input from ravaneli you have now two persons giving positive feedback on the Klipsch. So, yeah keep them and give them a try with your system.

About the RC55i's or RC60i's; I think the only consideration will be if you are going to do a in-wall installation, then you have to use the RC55i's.

Now of course if it will be an in-ceiling installation then your best option are the RC60i's.

I subscribed to your thread, so please don't forget to reply back with your first impressions as soon your setup is running and post pics if you can.

Cheers!

cr136124

ravaneli wrote: »

RTi A6

I guess do you mean the CSi A6. I do have that speaker as my center channel and it is paired with RTi A9's as fronts. You should try to re-run calibration in your receiver. That A6 is a really nice speaker and the sound is amazing for a center channel.

You can also try to manually calibrate your speakers using a SPL meter. I purchased mine at RadioShack for about $16.00 (outlet special). So, I used it to ensure all my speakers are at the same level...........well, except my two subwoofers, I run them a little bit hotter.......:twisted:

Good luck!

ravaneli

the thing is, the sound I get is great either way. Not saying the A6 is bad. It is great in itself. But have you tried the two A9 towers alone? You will be amazed how little you miss a center. Imagine two tweeters and 4 mid drivers playing the center content.

jbooker82

All you have to do is put your reciever in stereo listning mode. I still prefer a center channel. Different listening modes will rely on different amounts on the center channel.

cr136124

ravaneli wrote: »

the thing is, the sound I get is great either way. Not saying the A6 is bad. It is great in itself. But have you tried the two A9 towers alone? You will be amazed how little you miss a center. Imagine two tweeters and 4 mid drivers playing the center content.

Problem is that if I am watching a movie that was mixed to send specific sound to the center channel, my receiver will only send that signal to that specific speaker. So, I will be missing the dialogue or center channel sound effect by removing that speaker. The fronts are huge and very capable speakers, but once again if the sound mix is not sending dialogue to those speakers, then I will be missing that specific signal for the center channel. Does this make sense?

Are you using a different coded or DSP with your receiver? I am talking about watching movies of course. Now, for music I indeed use the 2.1 listening mode. No sound at all on the center channel everything is sent to fronts and subwoofer.

Cheers!

sass_shooter

Is there something that tells what the size of the wall cavity needs to be for the in-wall speakers. I looked at the manual with the speakers and I couldn't find any info. Since I'm building the wall I would like to make sure it is built so that I get the best from the speakers? Or any other steps I should take in building the wall that will maximize the performance?

cr136124

Sass,

Here is the information on the dimensions for the center channel cut-out size and depth (info at almost the bottom of the page).

http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/vanishing/specs.php#center

And here is the info for your other speakers.

http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/rci/specs.php


What I did for my in-wall speakers was build an internal box (using studs) and then filled with poly ($2 or so at Walmart), but you can also use medium density cotton fill. You just need to fill it as half or 2/3 of the inside box. That should improve sound from your speaker, tightness your bass, and avoid sound going to the other side of the wall.

Anyway, you might hear from other members, that these speakers do not require boxes. But as you, I was during the construction phase of my home and I just decided to do it anyway.......;o)

cr136124

Here a couple of pics on how they look installed.

[URL="[IMG]http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj563/cr136124/SAM_1403.jpg[/IMG]"][/URL]

[URL="[IMG]http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj563/cr136124/SAM_1405.jpg[/IMG]"][/URL]

sass_shooter

Thanks for the link.
Here is a Picture of what the layout of my room will be after I have the wall built. Facing the TV on the right side there will be a closet facing the hallway, in which I plan on having the Reciever, BlueRay, and stuff built into the wall and accesible via the closet.
For the rear's (RC55I), would I want them both behind the sectional, or would I want to spread them out to the where one is over by where the recliner is?

And the Klipsch speakers I was planning on Mounting about 5 ft from the Back Wall and about 7' High. One by the sectional and the other by the Recliner where the dining room starts.

Any opinions or suggestions on any of this?

Thanks

cr136124

So, is your room something like 2,600 to 2,900 sqf (without taking in consideration the dining room)? If yes, then it is a medium size room and you have must realize your speakers are going to somehow be limited by the size of the room. Just trying to set expectations here....;o)

Yes, I will consider your sectional as the main listening position and therefore, I will install the surround back speakers right behind your sectional.

If there is no option to install the Klipsch on pedestals to cover the sectional, then your best bet is to install them as you are planning right now. Your Onkyo should be able to compensate the distance between these two speakers to ensure you are keeping the right balance between them. Or if you want to you can buy a SPL Meter at RadioShack and you can manually calibrate your speakers yourself. But, at this time, just let your receiver to take care of that.

Cheers!

sass_shooter

cr136124 wrote: »

So, is your room something like 2,600 to 2,900 sqf (without taking in consideration the dining room)? If yes, then it is a medium size room and you have must realize your speakers are going to somehow be limited by the size of the room. Just trying to set expectations here....;o)

If there is no option to install the Klipsch on pedestals to cover the sectional, then your best bet is to install them as you are planning right now. Your Onkyo should be able to compensate the distance between these two speakers to ensure you are keeping the right balance between them. Or if you want to you can buy a SPL Meter at RadioShack and you can manually calibrate your speakers yourself. But, at this time, just let your receiver to take care of that.

Cheers!

The room is only 270 sqf. 18' x 15'

There are 2 ceiling fans ( 1 in front of sectional and 1 in front of recliner) So it would require a 3-4ft pedestal to clear the fans, and I dont think my wife would be happy with a speaker hanging down in the middle of our living room.

Also, is 5' out from wall an appropriate distance, I cant really go out further but I could go closer to back wall if needed.

sass_shooter

cr136124 wrote: »

Sass,

Here is the information on the dimensions for the center channel cut-out size and depth (info at almost the bottom of the page).
http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/vanishing/specs.php#center
And here is the info for your other speakers.
http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/rci/specs.php

.......;o)

I see where the dimmensions for the speakers are and the cut out dimmesnsions, But im not finding where it gives the specs for the wall cavities?

cr136124

sass_shooter wrote: »

The room is only 270 sqf. 18' x 15'

There are 2 ceiling fans ( 1 in front of sectional and 1 in front of recliner) So it would require a 3-4ft pedestal to clear the fans, and I dont think my wife would be happy with a speaker hanging down in the middle of our living room.

Also, is 5' out from wall an appropriate distance, I cant really go out further but I could go closer to back wall if needed.

Whoops...my bad, I meant cubit feet.

About the pedestals, I was referring to the ones that you place on the floor. They will just raise the speakers to the right level. In any case, the problem is that you will have one of them in the middle of the living room and WAF factor will be hard to pass there.

So, it seems the logical option here will be to install the Klipsch surround speakers as you originally planned.

sass_shooter

cr136124 wrote: »

Whoops...my bad, I meant cubit feet.

In reference to the Cubic Feet of the room and the "Limitations of the Speakers". Do I need bigger speakers or something, I'm not following what you are meaning by this? Sorry for my ignorance.

cr136124

sass_shooter wrote: »

I see where the dimmensions for the speakers are and the cut out dimmesnsions, But im not finding where it gives the specs for the wall cavities?

It will be the overall depth listed on the site. In the case of your center speaker, you will be good if you have 4" of depth to install them.

BTW - my builder used 1 1/2" X 5 3/8" wood stud for the walls. So, the 4" depth required for the speakers wasn't and issue for me.

What are the measurements of the stud that you are planning to use?

cr136124

sass_shooter wrote: »

In reference to the Cubic Feet of the room and the "Limitations of the Speakers". Do I need bigger speakers or something, I'm not following what you are meaning by this? Sorry for my ignorance.

Oh no worries, I made the same questions few years ago when I was building my first HomeTheater, so best way to do it is by clarifying all your questions....;o)

The size of the room in cubic feet is always and item to consider due to that should be the space that your speakers will need to fill out with sound. As you can imagine the bigger the room the more power on the speakers that you might need.

However, all that depends on what you are trying to achieve and the budget that you have available. Yep, there are folks with speakers that cost much more that the car that I'm driving now. So, you can go crazy there.

I guess in your case, you are trying to build a nice HomeTheater without breaking your bank account. Are you planning to use this system mainly to watch movies/TV. Or it is going to be more music. 50/50 perhaps?

sass_shooter

cr136124 wrote: »

I guess in your case, you are trying to build a nice HomeTheater without breaking your bank account. Are you planning to use this system mainly to watch movies/TV. Or it is going to be more music. 50/50 perhaps?

I would say 99% to watch movies.

For the Rear speakers. What height and what distance between should they be placed?

also, for my center and Front speakers. I am planning on having my tv 48" from the floor. Would I want my center speaker above or below the tv? ( Its a 55" LG lm6700) And the Front R & L speakers do I want them centered with tv or level with the Center? Any Info on this would be greatly appreciated.

sass_shooter

cr136124 wrote: »

It will be the overall depth listed on the site. In the case of your center speaker, you will be good if you have 4" of depth to install them.

BTW - my builder used 1 1/2" X 5 3/8" wood stud for the walls. So, the 4" depth required for the speakers wasn't and issue for me.

What are the measurements of the stud that you are planning to use?

I'm not a carpenter either, I'm still trying to figure everything out to finalize the plans with my builder. So it would be better to use 2x6 studs for the wall being built instead of 2x4 walls?

For the cavity, is there a distance from Width or height that I need to consider? Do i need to make sure that both side speakers are the same as far as the Height or Width of their cavity's? Or does it mainly just have to do with the depth?

For my Rear's, the wall is already built so I'll just have to go with whatever is already there, but it is a 2x4 wall.

cr136124

sass_shooter wrote: »

I would say 99% to watch movies.

For the Rear speakers. What height and what distance between should they be placed?

also, for my center and Front speakers. I am planning on having my tv 48" from the floor. Would I want my center speaker above or below the tv? ( Its a 55" LG lm6700) And the Front R & L speakers do I want them centered with tv or level with the Center? Any Info on this would be greatly appreciated.

Have a look at the information at this site:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3eFF0Yp6IUy/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html

That is a big TV, so I will keep the center speaker (if possible) below the TV. Due to the center speaker is a in-wall you will not have much chance to aim it towards your listening position.

Do you have a chance to measure the height (floor to your hears) while you are at your sectional? If yes, that should be more o less your height reference to install your speakers. It doesn't need to be exact, is just something that might help you to identify the right height to install the fronts and center.

cr136124

sass_shooter wrote: »

I'm not a carpenter either, I'm still trying to figure everything out to finalize the plans with my builder. So it would be better to use 2x6 studs for the wall being built instead of 2x4 walls?

For the cavity, is there a distance from Width or height that I need to consider? Do i need to make sure that both side speakers are the same as far as the Height or Width of their cavity's? Or does it mainly just have to do with the depth?

For my Rear's, the wall is already built so I'll just have to go with whatever is already there, but it is a 2x4 wall.

I will play safe here and you might want to go with the 2x6. That should give you the opportunity to upgrade speakers in the future (if you want it) without been concern about limited depth space on your wall.

For the rears (RC55i) the depth required is only 2 1/2", so you should have plenty room for the installation.

sass_shooter

Here is a picture of what I have so far with my wall. I dont have the new sectional yet but on our current couch our ears are 41" and 43" high. So I have the center speaker centered on 42". Also i am not for sure if i wanna build the acessories into the wall like in this diagram, or if I want them on a shelf below tv. Any input on these plans so far?

cr136124

sass_shooter wrote: »

Here is a picture of what I have so far with my wall. I dont have the new sectional yet but on our current couch our ears are 41" and 43" high. So I have the center speaker centered on 42". Also i am not for sure if i wanna build the acessories into the wall like in this diagram, or if I want them on a shelf below tv. Any input on these plans so far?

Looks good. Just wait to have your sectional at home before you start cutting holes for your speakers. I mean, just to be 100% sure.

But, if your couch and sectional are similar you are going to put your center channel on the golden spot. Dialogue will be crisp and clear to you and family watching the movie at the sectional.

I'm not big fan of in wall built-in shelf. They are really cool, but main issue for me is that I'm moving things around or making upgrades rather quickly. So, I want to have flexibility to move my gear around and / or have access (without major complications) to the back of the units.

In my case I built my own A/V Console. Have a look:

sass_shooter

cr136124 wrote: »

Looks good. Just wait to have your sectional at home before you start cutting holes for your speakers. I mean, just to be 100% sure.



In my case I built my own A/V Console. Have a look:

Thats a cool looking console. I'm not that good with woodworking so i'll buy one and scrap the plans of building into my wall.

cr136124

Thanks. But to be honest with you that was my first project! I can share a link with a lot of information about others building their own AV consoles. Let me know.

So, what are the items that you already have at home? And, what is still pending?

sass_shooter

So far I got the onkyo reciever, the 55" LG lm6700, an lg blue ray player, rc85i (pair), rc55i(pair), rc60i(pair), Klipsch wb-14(pair), 150' of rocketfish speaker wire, 8 pairs of banana plugs.(everything just sitting in boxes at the house.)
I have the 255c-rt ordered should be delivered first of next week.
Have to order the new sectional for the wife, and still need to get some HDMI cables.(any suggestions?)

Just waiting on the wall to be built and get everything installed.