'Entry Level' DAC Comparison - Results

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13

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,606
    edited August 2013
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    If you eat peaches, will you get a smaller waist?

    If anything all this Peachtree DAC-IT talk has made me want to try one even more!
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited August 2013
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    H9, based on your opinion of your Keces DA-151, I bought one on Ebay...hope to see it this week! I wonder if you have upgradedany of the IC's on your unit? I hear that there are some out there worth the swap out. Let me know if you know anything about this?

    I have been using an ODAC (RCA version, 159.00) with it's Sabre 9023 chip (Peachtree Dac-it also uses this chip). The ODAC has an amazing/addictive sound to me, but I have never had anything to compare it to. Can't wait to compare it with the Keces, but I would like to have the best chip(s) I can find in the Keces before I do the comparison.
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited August 2013
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    I too would be curious about upgrades to the 151. It was very good in stock form, any upgrades may put it above the Peachtree in my order of preference since they were already so close.
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited August 2013
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    I found notes about this that I copied into my documents file. Just need to find the email address associated with it. Anyway thi si what I copied:

    Remove the OPA604's, and substituting the LME47910's in their place. Reviewer comments:

    "The difference after the upgrade is not subtle. There is an improvement in low-level detail retrieval, and the entire spectrum sounds more natural, with an added sense of liveliness. Most noticeable is the increase in "air" around instruments as well as voices, and a greater sense of the original recording space. The manufacturer has stated that they have not had anyone request a change back to the OPA604, and I understand totally. The LME49710 ICs are in for good
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited August 2013
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    Devlon,I have a few extra LME49710's laying around if you want I can send you a pair of freebies.Just PM me your address.The OPA604 is a good opamp,but I like the reviewer have a preference for the LME family of devices and use them in most of my DIY projects.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,352
    edited August 2013
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    The SE and headphone out in my DAC use LME49720 and it sounds real good.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,081
    edited August 2013
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    Devlon wrote: »
    H9, based on your opinion of your Keces DA-151, I bought one on Ebay...hope to see it this week! I wonder if you have upgradedany of the IC's on your unit? I hear that there are some out there worth the swap out. Let me know if you know anything about this?

    I have been using an ODAC (RCA version, 159.00) with it's Sabre 9023 chip (Peachtree Dac-it also uses this chip). The ODAC has an amazing/addictive sound to me, but I have never had anything to compare it to. Can't wait to compare it with the Keces, but I would like to have the best chip(s) I can find in the Keces before I do the comparison.

    Mine came with the LME OP AMPS. This Fall I will be swapping the output coupling caps (Bennic) with Clarity caps.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited August 2013
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Mine came with the LME OP AMPS. This Fall I will be swapping the output coupling caps (Bennic) with Clarity caps.

    H9

    I think that's because you must of got the MKII model. I think I remember it also came with the Burr-Brown PCM2702 dac chip. I don't know what chip this older model I'm getting has in it? Anyway, if you think of any more upgrades let me know.
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited August 2013
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    Assimilated are you done with the Dac comparison thing or is it still going on?
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,081
    edited August 2013
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    No, mine is a MK I 1/2. It's a revision of the original, but not a MK II. The MK II didn't have output coupling caps, they were replaced with op-amps. I chose this one partly so I could try some different coupling caps at the output. Mine did come stock with the LME op amps at the input stage.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited August 2013
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    Well, seeing as how this thread is over a year old, the initial comparison is long since completed. However, based on some listening I've been doing with the Oppo 105 as part of my USB converter thread I think I'm about to launch into another comparison, this time with a few pricier options. I may try to throw an upgraded 151 into the mix if I can find one, but it won't ultimately be the keeper for me as I need Hi-Rez support, I just have too much material now to NOT have support for that.

    The DAC-IT still sounds great, and is still my favorite in this lower price range. But comparing it against the Oppo 105 was a mistake, the difference wasn't ginormous but its there and I can usually pick it out within a couple minutes. Even though it's not a huge gap I know I'll obsess over it until I've found something that sounds as good as the 105.
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited August 2013
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    Mi casa es su case, come on over anytime. Once I figure out my DAC situation you're welcome to borrow the Peachtree, or you can help me do the next shootout with some higher priced models.

    I'd like to keep the cost of a DAC in the office system to less than $1K, so my next round of comparisons will be DACs up to around that price.
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited August 2013
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    I may try to throw an upgraded 151 into the mix if I can find one, but it won't ultimately be the keeper

    Assimilated I would be willing to let you demo my upgraded Keces DA 151 when it comes in and I swap out the stock IC's with the LME49710's that FTGV is sending to me. Also, I would like to send with it the ODAC. When I read Steve Guttenberg's review of the JD Labs 02 (Odac + headphone amp) at this location:

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57526726-47/jds-labs-overachieving-headphone-amplifiers/

    ......and how he said that it was the "Best Headphone Amp this audiophile has ever heard" I had to know what DAC was in this thing. Once I read the engineering specs by nwavguy (the inventor/engineer) I had to try it. I just got it back from a guy on another forum that compared it to his 700.00 DAC, and reported back to me had he know about this DAC he would have bought it instead and saved 550.00....it's that good. Does 24/96 USB, and mine is the RCA version. Know this is not in the price range of the DACs you wanted to try next, but I really think it merits listening to. Anyway, let me know!
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited August 2013
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    Sounds good, ping me when you have them and we'll get it done. I've heard good things about the odac, would love to hear it as well.
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited August 2013
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    Ok, definitely will do
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
    edited August 2013
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    Hmmm...maybe I should look into upgrading the power supply for my DAC-iT...and then get rid of it in lieu of some unknown Chinese eBay special DAC.

    LOL. That dude was funny.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • jasoun
    jasoun Posts: 4
    edited August 2013
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    Hello again guys ,
    I am sure that you had lots of fun kicking my you know what , but I am tough and I just wanted to share the details of the Chinese Dac that I mentioned . I baught it from another seller so you will need a power supply for this one . http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Assembled-Kit-Lampucera-CS8416-PCM1798-24Bit-192KHz-DAC-Stereo-Decoder-/270920645873?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1420fcf1#ht_3366wt_1162
    I just disconnected the Peachtree and I can tell you this DAC blows it clear out of the water .
    I hope you are open minded enough to at least upgrade the Power supply of the Peachtree or to try out this DAC you won't be dissapointed . I am now looking at another Ebay chinese DAC using the AK4399 .
    Good bye guys
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited August 2013
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    You still haven't mentioned the power supply you upgraded to...

    How are supposed to be open minder and upgrade the power supply when you don't mention what you used?
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,722
    edited August 2013
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    Oh, and I love your link to the ebay auction with "details" when in fact there are basically no useful details anywhere on that page...
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    edited August 2013
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    Good-bye Jasoun.....
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited August 2013
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    The linked ebay dac is basically a simple data sheet implementation of the Burr Brown/Ti pcm 1798 dac chip using the industry standard CS8416 input reciever.Assuming they are not fakes the opamps for I-V conversion and output buffering are decent .They are socketed so it would be easy to upgrade these.With a few well chosen parts substitutions in certain areas these little dac's can sound surprisingly good.
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited September 2013
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    FTGV wrote: »
    Devlon,I have a few extra LME49710's laying around if you want I can send you a pair of freebies.Just PM me your address.The OPA604 is a good opamp,but I like the reviewer have a preference for the LME family of devices and use them in most of my DIY projects.

    Hey FTGV, the LME49720's that you sent me arrived today. Man, it made my day getting these! I look forward to installing these in the Keces this weekend and giving them a listen. Your generosity is is much appreciated!!!

    Thanks a million!

    Devlon
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited September 2013
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    Glad they cleared customs.:lol:and your very welcome.The actual IC's should be 49710,the anti static bag I placed them was labeled 49720.
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited November 2013
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    On my Keces DA-151 the sound just keeps getting better. I swapped out the LME49710's from the stock BB OP604's with a dramatic change in sound for the better. I have now installed LME49990's and the sound has gotten better again......even more details, etc. I am in the process of doing my final testing of my W4S DAC 2 against the Keces. I want to compare the Keces against one more DAC, probably the EE Minimax DAC Plus. After that, my only hope for better USB sound will probably be a Lampizator Level 4 or above. In the meantime be watching the For Sale section as I either want to sell the W4S, or trade someone for a EE Minimax DAC plus. Don't mind to trade temporarily if you have an EE, and just want to hear what a W4S DAC 2 sounds like I am curious about how the USB sounds on the EE. Anyway, review coming before too long!
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    edited November 2013
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    Ahh, you mention the Lampizator, I'm jonesin' to get an ear on one. People who have them speak of them in Godly terms.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,081
    edited November 2013
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    I would imagine something like Obligatto's in place of the Dayton coupling caps would greatly improve it again. I have Clarity's ready to swap in but I may now opt for something a little more "boutique".

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Devlon
    Devlon Posts: 355
    edited November 2013
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    Yeah, post what caps you end up installing. I'm kinda thinking that nothing is going to "out do" Keces USB except maybe the Lampi. If after comparing the EE I still think the Keces is the "King of USB" I will focus all of my time on upgrading the Keces as far as I can.....so your opinion of the caps would be of interest for sure. There is a ifi dealer near me in Nashville. Soon I will be taking the Keces down there and trying the ifi USB Power + the dual Gemini USB cable to see if I hear any difference.
    Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
    2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One

    Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
    1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,081
    edited November 2013
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    Be careful the, EE mini max is tube based and tubes can make or break a unit. I try to never compare tubes vs. solid state stuff. Too many variables when it comes to tube gear and the endless variation of tubes. Luckily the Mini Max uses the same type tube for both positions (12AU7) , but then you have the rectifier tube to deal with and those can vary greatly. Unless you are really interested in tube rolling, tube gear may not be where it's at. All that said, no harm in listening to as many as possible. Just keep that in mind.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • shadowlight
    shadowlight Posts: 327
    edited November 2013
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Be careful the, EE mini max is tube based and tubes can make or break a unit. I try to never compare tubes vs. solid state stuff. Too many variables when it comes to tube gear and the endless variation of tubes. Luckily the Mini Max uses the same type tube for both positions (12AU7) , but then you have the rectifier tube to deal with and those can vary greatly. Unless you are really interested in tube rolling, tube gear may not be where it's at. All that said, no harm in listening to as many as possible. Just keep that in mind.

    H9

    EE has both tube and solid state output. From folks who have EE they seem to prefer the solid state output with Dexa op. At one point Bill O'Connell was selling units with Dexa directly. There is a long thread on audiocircle discussing various variations on options that folks have tried with EE
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,081
    edited November 2013
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    I could see some preferring the ss if they only use stock tubes, but roll in some excellent tubes and I can't see the bias still be SS. But A) I haven't heard one B) I'm a tube guy who rolls a lot of tubes.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter