'Entry Level' DAC Comparison - Results

Devlon

heiney9 wrote: »

I love the Keces DA-151. It's just a very "correct" sounding dac. Dead neutral, great soundstage, great bass, smooth, open and my favorite description is "effortless". The music just flows naturally. It edged out the Audio GD NFB-3 in just about every area.

Attention to design details and high quality parts sets this above all in it's price class and many that punch higher. It's a superb sounding USB dac. Surprised the hell out of me and continues to everytime I listen.

H9, read with a lot of interest your post about the Keces DAC. After researching the reviews I decided to buy one. But where? I am unable to find anywhere on the net where to go to purchase these. Any suggestions?

heiney9

heiney9 wrote: »

I love the Keces DA-151. It's just a very "correct" sounding dac. Dead neutral, great soundstage, great bass, smooth, open and my favorite description is "effortless". The music just flows naturally. It edged out the Audio GD NFB-3 in just about every area.

Attention to design details and high quality parts sets this above all in it's price class and many that punch higher. It's a superb sounding USB dac. Surprised the hell out of me and continues to everytime I listen.

Devlon wrote: »

H9, read with a lot of interest your post about the Keces DAC. After researching the reviews I decided to buy one. But where? I am unable to find anywhere on the net where to go to purchase these. Any suggestions?

It seems David Keces no longer offers those products at this time. I guess used is the only choice right now. Maybe send him and email through the website.

H9

tonyb

Well well....looky what the cat dragged in. Where ya been bro ? Those circus midgets have you all tied up ?

ViperZ

Nice to see the results on Oppo 83SE. But now the BDP-105 is out with its newest and best DACs...

tot_acelasi

@AsSiMLaTeD Can you explain more the differences from Bifrost and Peachtree ? I have Bifrost now and I like very much the detail from sound, but it is a bit bright and I want more bas. Can be Peachtree a good choice ? Or should I try the Schiit Gungir ?

Lost240

Great write up! I love the Peachtree Audio Dac it

11tsteve

anyone notice a burn-in difference with the Peachtree, or was it pretty remarkable right out of the box? I have a decently burned in Bifrost and a Dac-it with not too many hours on it, and at the moment, though there are some improvements spatially and in the low end with the Peachtree, I have to say the Bifrost is definitely more musical as they are right now.

AsSiMiLaTeD

If you're hearing the Bifrost as more musical then something is amiss. I could see someone liking it better because it has slightly more sparkle on the high end, but I find it much more forward sounding and a little thin compared to the warmer more musical sound of the Peachtree.

Unless of course by musical you mean forward sounding, but musical is generally described as a warmer less analytical sound.

11tsteve

it has changed some over the week i have been listening, but no, i pretty much meant what i described. musical is not what i am hearing from the Peachtree, though its better now...

before it started improving....one example of what i mean. the Dac-it sounds just a bit "hot" to me... such as the leading edge of "S" in vocals are overly pronounced, and cymbals sizzle a bit too much. the Bifrost in general, is much more laid back.

again, this was through phones, Polk 11T's, and Infinity RSb. if we were talking a huge difference in accuracy, i would say perhaps the Peachtree were exposing weaknesses in my system. but we are talking musicality, so my expectation was for the Peachtree to perhaps warm up the somewhat lean sound of the Acurus RL11. i did not expect the opposite.
my next step is to try a new cable and get away from this Tributaries TOSLINK...

11tsteve

forgot to ask... what are the possibilities for something else being amiss?

jasoun

I just became a member and I was anxious to add my opinion on the Peachtree Dac-it . I read this posts late last year and it was one of the reasons that I baught a Peachtree Dac-it in December . This is for my Desktop System . I previously had a MF V-Dac (with better power supply) and a Keces 131 also a few others . The Peachtree was a bit of a dissapointment as it had a very thin sound and the USB was useless . It was not any better than the V-dac and no where near the Keces 131 . However playing it through my MF V-Link 192 using the COAX it was much better but still sounded overly detailed and weak . Then I got a Linear Power supply from Parts Express 9V and it came alive , this was the missing link . The Peachtree is way overated in standard form and needs a good SPDIF to USB converter and an uprated power supply to sound anything near good . I see where they have introduced a new version with uprated USB but it still needs a good P/S . Frankly it has been a dissapointment and I am now looking around for a replacement as I had the shock of my life recently when I finally completed an EBAY Chinese DAC kit that I had baught some time ago , it is a 24bit/192KHz DAC KIT- Lampucera using the PCM 1798 , no tube section , sold by GIGAWORK at the time . This $90.00 + case DAC using the COAX from the MF V-Link completely blew the Peachtree Dac-it out of the water . It was as clear as crystal making the Peachtree Sound kind of muffled . This is why I wrote this reply as I am now a bit confused , what do I buy next I cannot afford the $2000 stuff so it's trying to find what's best in the $600 price range . THe Bifrost with the UBER uprated board looks interesting but if they say that the Peachtree was better than the original I wonder how good it could be . Or the MF M1 but this little Chinese DAC just might give them a good fight . I should also mention that the Gigawork DAC also took out my beloved Parasound DAC in my main system , after trying a few good DAC's over the years I fell in love with my Parasound , I never thought I would want to change it . Now I am no longer so sure .

tonyb

Look at a used Cary exciter dac which can be had in the 6 bones area or a Burson used of course, PS audio digital link 3, Music Hall, Audio-GD, plenty of 600 buck dacs to wet your whistle.

dragon1952

If you are talking USB straight out of your PC then you better be resigned to using a good converter. Even some of the better USB DAC implementations I'm not sure they are better than a decent non-USB DAC plus converter when you are coming straight out of a PC.

AsSiMiLaTeD

jasoun wrote: »

I just became a member and I was anxious to add my opinion on the Peachtree Dac-it . I read this posts late last year and it was one of the reasons that I baught a Peachtree Dac-it in December . This is for my Desktop System . I previously had a MF V-Dac (with better power supply) and a Keces 131 also a few others . The Peachtree was a bit of a dissapointment as it had a very thin sound and the USB was useless . It was not any better than the V-dac and no where near the Keces 131 . However playing it through my MF V-Link 192 using the COAX it was much better but still sounded overly detailed and weak . Then I got a Linear Power supply from Parts Express 9V and it came alive , this was the missing link . The Peachtree is way overated in standard form and needs a good SPDIF to USB converter and an uprated power supply to sound anything near good . I see where they have introduced a new version with uprated USB but it still needs a good P/S . Frankly it has been a dissapointment and I am now looking around for a replacement as I had the shock of my life recently when I finally completed an EBAY Chinese DAC kit that I had baught some time ago , it is a 24bit/192KHz DAC KIT- Lampucera using the PCM 1798 , no tube section , sold by GIGAWORK at the time . This $90.00 + case DAC using the COAX from the MF V-Link completely blew the Peachtree Dac-it out of the water . It was as clear as crystal making the Peachtree Sound kind of muffled . This is why I wrote this reply as I am now a bit confused , what do I buy next I cannot afford the $2000 stuff so it's trying to find what's best in the $600 price range . THe Bifrost with the UBER uprated board looks interesting but if they say that the Peachtree was better than the original I wonder how good it could be . Or the MF M1 but this little Chinese DAC just might give them a good fight . I should also mention that the Gigawork DAC also took out my beloved Parasound DAC in my main system , after trying a few good DAC's over the years I fell in love with my Parasound , I never thought I would want to change it . Now I am no longer so sure .

Well your observation of the peachtree is the opposite if mine and many others people, so I personally don't know what to recommend for you.

tonyb

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

Well your observation of the peachtree is the opposite if mine and many others people, so I personally don't know what to recommend for you.

Ya know....I'm always a tad skeptical when someones first post is to bash one product and promote another.

Devlon

heiney9 wrote: »

I love the Keces DA-151. It's just a very "correct" sounding dac. Dead neutral, great soundstage, great bass, smooth, open and my favorite description is "effortless". The music just flows naturally. It edged out the Audio GD NFB-3 in just about every area.

Attention to design details and high quality parts sets this above all in it's price class and many that punch higher. It's a superb sounding USB dac. Surprised the hell out of me and continues to everytime I listen.

H9

H9, I contacted David Wei about a Keces DA-151 that I have an opportunity to buy to see if the IC's were swappable like on the DA-131.

His response was
Hello Devlon,

"We have stopped selling all KECES related products and parts.

What I can tell you is that 151 only supports up to 16bits and 44.1 kHz, not 24 bits. Due to the fact it is a cop limitation, it is not possible to upgrade that part.

Also 131 is significantly better sounding than 151, while our new NAR 101.3 sounds significantly better than both of them.

If you are still interested, you can get those opamp from many parts supplier like digikey.

If you are considering an affordable DAC, maybe you can consider our PocketDAC PDM-10s, which provide performance that is on par or better than 151 at much lower price."

H9, or anyone for that matter, are you familiar with the NAR 101.3? Have you heard it? Wonder how it compares with the Keces?

Devlon

Anyone have experience with the Nar Dac that replaced the Keces ?

heiney9

Devlon wrote: »

H9, I contacted David Wei about a Keces DA-151 that I have an opportunity to buy to see if the IC's were swappable like on the DA-131.

His response was
Hello Devlon,

"We have stopped selling all KECES related products and parts.

What I can tell you is that 151 only supports up to 16bits and 44.1 kHz, not 24 bits. Due to the fact it is a cop limitation, it is not possible to upgrade that part.

Also 131 is significantly better sounding than 151, while our new NAR 101.3 sounds significantly better than both of them.

If you are still interested, you can get those opamp from many parts supplier like digikey.

If you are considering an affordable DAC, maybe you can consider our PocketDAC PDM-10s, which provide performance that is on par or better than 151 at much lower price."

H9, or anyone for that matter, are you familiar with the NAR 101.3? Have you heard it? Wonder how it compares with the Keces?

Typical salesman speak. He has a new product and wants you to buy that so all of a sudden the prior line is inferior, it only does this or that, yada, yada, yada. The new NAR 101.3 looks great but it retails for just under $600. It's big step up for sure, but not inexpensive. No I have not heard it.

Beyond the salesman speak, I think his products are excellent. Well built, quality parts, and superb designs within what they want to accomplish. I'd buy the 151 and upgrade it. I love my 151. Amazing piece for a $250 dac. Puts higher priced units to shame.

H9

jasoun

I am sorry that some members saw my post as bashing the Peachtree Dac-it . I am very familiar with good sound and I am constantly tweaking my system to get even better sound ( for me this is a hobby ) , In the past I have owned lots of high end stuff including McIntosh amplifiers and $3000.00 speakers ( I still have them ) so I have a pretty good idea of what sounds good . In the past few years I am now spending a lot of time on my PC so I have been slowly bringing the sound to an acceptable level . First a good sound card , then better speakers , then graduating to a seperate amp etc. The comment that PC's will never sound good is ill informed . My little desktop sounds better than a lot of high end stuff . I am presently using a using a MF V-Link 192 connected to the PC's usb with a 6" cable , a good quality COAX cable takes the signal into the COAX of my DAC ( All medium priced , I presently have seven dac's to choose from ) . From the DAC it's fead to a little Quinpu A-6000 amp with GE Red 5 Star tubes . My present speakers are Energy C3's with Janzen Superior upgraded caps . I am sure there is a lot better available but this is all done on a limited budget . And it sounds really good . So when I read the first post praising the Peachtree , I said that's what I am gonna get , I always wanted to try a Sabre dac and I have just not been able to buy a Wired4 sound or Eastern Electric Dac in this tight economy . So when I got the Dac-it I was expecting a lot and it was a great let down . The guys that says that it sounds good without even an upgraded power supply makes me wonder just what kind of equipment they have been exposed to . The Peachtree is very detailed but sounds thin and a little weak , the upgraded power supply has helped it a lot and it's still in my system but the little Chinese Dac definately outperformed it in a big way and I am not promoting another product as I don't even know the name of that dac , but this is what I have experienced and the truth sometimes hurts but it's the truth . When you are looking for good sound you have to be exposed to very good sound to be able to tell just where you are . I think that the Peachtree Dac-it is a bit overrated , maybe the new one will be better but I am sorry that I did't spend my money on something else , I would'nt be in the market for another Dac so soon after buying it . I guess I will have to listen to the Chinese Dac until I can afford a really nice Dac but it's a pitty that one cannot be found for under $500 . Sorry about the long reply and I am not bashing the Peachtree ( I did spend my money on it ) , maybe I am too critical ? , but I do not wish to mis-lead anyone into thinking that this is a great Dac and it a least needs a good power supply to really sound good .

dragon1952

jasoun wrote: »

I am sorry that some members saw my post as bashing the Peachtree Dac-it . I am very familiar with good sound and I am constantly tweaking my system to get even better sound ( for me this is a hobby ) , In the past I have owned lots of high end stuff including McIntosh amplifiers and $3000.00 speakers ( I still have them ) so I have a pretty good idea of what sounds good . In the past few years I am now spending a lot of time on my PC so I have been slowly bringing the sound to an acceptable level . First a good sound card , then better speakers , then graduating to a seperate amp etc. The comment that PC's will never sound good is ill informed . My little desktop sounds better than a lot of high end stuff . I am presently using a using a MF V-Link 192 connected to the PC's usb with a 6" cable , a good quality COAX cable takes the signal into the COAX of my DAC ( All medium priced , I presently have seven dac's to choose from ) . From the DAC it's fead to a little Quinpu A-6000 amp with GE Red 5 Star tubes . My present speakers are Energy C3's with Janzen Superior upgraded caps . I am sure there is a lot better available but this is all done on a limited budget . And it sounds really good . So when I read the first post praising the Peachtree , I said that's what I am gonna get , I always wanted to try a Sabre dac and I have just not been able to buy a Wired4 sound or Eastern Electric Dac in this tight economy . So when I got the Dac-it I was expecting a lot and it was a great let down . The guys that says that it sounds good without even an upgraded power supply makes me wonder just what kind of equipment they have been exposed to . The Peachtree is very detailed but sounds thin and a little weak , the upgraded power supply has helped it a lot and it's still in my system but the little Chinese Dac definately outperformed it in a big way and I am not promoting another product as I don't even know the name of that dac , but this is what I have experienced and the truth sometimes hurts but it's the truth . When you are looking for good sound you have to be exposed to very good sound to be able to tell just where you are . I think that the Peachtree Dac-it is a bit overrated , maybe the new one will be better but I am sorry that I did't spend my money on something else , I would'nt be in the market for another Dac so soon after buying it . I guess I will have to listen to the Chinese Dac until I can afford a really nice Dac but it's a pitty that one cannot be found for under $500 . Sorry about the long reply and I am not bashing the Peachtree ( I did spend my money on it ) , maybe I am too critical ? , but I do not wish to mis-lead anyone into thinking that this is a great Dac and it a least needs a good power supply to really sound good .

Welcome to the forum! It's nice getting someone in here as obviously experienced as you are. I think you might have hit on something though, wondering if that long-standing member might not have been exposed to good equipment or good sound.... or whatever tf you were trying to say..... because he likes a piece you don't. And I always thought is was more of a subjective thing and dependent on synergy with the rest of the gear! And wow....$3000 speakers eh? Well you're way ahead of the rest of us then so you'll have to pardon us if we can't relate , especially with it being a 'hobby' and all for you. I doubt any of us are into it enough to call it that. But I promise to try that thing...what did you call it....tweaking to get better sound? Thanks for the tip!
P.S.: I've highlighted some of my favorite parts of your post

AsSiMiLaTeD

jasoun wrote: »

blah blah blah...I don't know what a paragraph is but I spent *gasp* three THOUSAND DOLLARS on speakers so I"m better than you...

You're quite a piece of work...

First, seriously dude it's called a paragraph and has been a component in written communication for some time now, you should check it out.

You don't like the Peachtree and that's fine, all our ears are different and we all like different things. While it's true that there are some products out there that are genuinely not good, those tend to get branded as such fairly quick and we tend to avoid those. The Peachtree is not in that category, there is simply too much positive feedback from pro and user reviews for that to be the case. But again, you're welcome to your opinion and I won't argue with it.

Your post is really bad form though. First you try to elevate yourself and suggest that your opinion is somehow 'better' by mentioning that you've had 'high end' gear and know what good sound is. First off, $3K ain't exactly 'high end' when it comes to speakers (though there are lots of speakers in that price range that sound great); and I got news for you, your McIntosh probably isn't as good as you think it is. But that aside, owning high end gear does not bless you with good ears, so your opinion is not made any more relevant by what you own. I know a few people who own higher end sports cars and can't drive worth a damn.

And then questioning my experience and what equipment I've been exposed to. Seriously? Again, really poor form.

I clearly stated the gear I was reviewing the DACs on, though since then almost all my gear has changed. At some point I'd like to do another comparison with some higher end units since I've taken the rest of my gear up a notch. Hell, I could maybe do that comparison again with my current gear and come up with a different conclusion, system synergy is probably the most overlooked factor in building a great sounding system and it's a variable you can never ignore.

If you'd care to offer anything productive, how about answering a couple questions:

1 - Which power supply did you upgrade to, a link would be nice?
2 - What's this Chineese DAC you keep talking about, how about a link to that? Don't know the brand or model, how about a link to the auction where you bought it?
3 - What are these other 'seven DACs' you have to choose from, and how do they each compare?

Seriously, if you're gonna drop in on our forum to bash a product and criticize the people who like it, the LEAST you could do is offer up more constructive thoughts and helpful info.

tonyb

tonyb wrote: »

Ya know....I'm always a tad skeptical when someones first post is to bash one product and promote another.

I hate to quote myself, but....

Jasoun,

It might have been better if you offered up a review and maybe stated it wasn't your cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that, even the supposedly best gear sounds like crap to some. Maybe even introduce yourself being your first post and all. Regardless, you seem to go a bit overboard in trashing the Peachtree. It obviously doesn't work for you, and that's cool, but it may for someone else and to insinuate that others who like it don't know what good sound is.....well, lets just say that's a tad bold of you.

falconcry72

tonyb wrote: »

...to insinuate that others who like it don't know what good sound is.....well, lets just say that's a tad bold of you.

A tad bold? lol. You goin' soft on us, Tony? The term Asshat comes to mind..

But seriously, jasoun, please heed Assimilated's advice and use paragraphs. As if the content of your words wasn't aggravating enough, the stream of consciousness writing style is not doing your flawed logic any favors.

tonyb

It's the new....kinder....gentler....me. LOL !!

falconcry72

tonyb wrote: »

It's the new....kinder....gentler....me. LOL !!

What kinda pills they got you on now?

jasoun

I am really a bit surprised at the immature replies that have been posted , not everyone around here is sixteen years old . Obviously nothing got through and I would'nt waist my time coming back on this forum . I hope you all enjoy your Peachtree dacs .

falconcry72

jasoun wrote: »

...not everyone around here is sixteen years old...

Correct. Not everyone around here is 16 years old, just you.

dragon1952

jasoun wrote: »

I am really a bit surprised at the immature replies that have been posted , not everyone around here is sixteen years old . Obviously nothing got through and I would'nt waist my time coming back on this forum . I hope you all enjoy your Peachtree dacs .

What got through is that you're a condescending dumbass who is making a bunch of assumptions about people that are likely much older and experienced in the hobby. Yes...I said 'hobby'. Seriously, do you think you are the only one that this is a hobby too? That would include just about everyone that enters this forum. You think you're the only one who tweaks their system looking for the 'good sound'? That defines all of us. And we've been doing it likely longer than you have. I've been in this hobby for 45 yrs.
Assimilated spends hundreds on top of the thousands he already spent on his own systems so he can try news things out and he's nice enough to report his findings. So you bought something he liked and didn't like it and now you're acting like he doesn't know what he's doing. So you are 'instructing' the rest of us how it's done. Maybe you don't realize it but that's exactly how you are coming across.
But as the saying goes, those that don't know, don't know that they don't know. And since you don't realize why everyone is shaking their heads at how you are coming across then you obviously fit in that category.

tonyb

jasoun wrote: »

I would'nt waist my time coming back on this forum . I hope you all enjoy your Peachtree dacs .

Damn-it, I knew I should have paid attention in charm school. Gonna have to work on that.

heiney9

jasoun wrote: »

I am really a bit surprised at the immature replies that have been posted , not everyone around here is sixteen years old . Obviously nothing got through and I would'nt waist my time coming back on this forum . I hope you all enjoy your Peachtree dacs .

Buh, bye! I would'nt waiste [sic] my time on you either.

H9