New Tube Integrated - What fits?

heiney9

The integrated amps I have don't provide the scale @15wpc and 9wpc it's not even close to revving up the 1C's like the Aleph does. I am hoping since the I-30 has beefier transformers, larger tubes and 30wpc it might fill-in in the main rig occasionally, but I need to get the tube compliment figured out. So far the stock power tubes are about the worst I've heard.

H9

organ

heiney9 wrote: »

Before it sort of disliked current production tubes, now I really hate anything from China, there stock Ruby tubes in the Dared are horrible sounding.

H9

Hold on to those Rubys. No need to hate them just yet (you knew this was coming from me:cheesygrin:). Your amp was designed for 6L6 but also accepts EL34. So you know that the EL34 is not running at full potential. Also, the amp is auto bias so it's biased for 6L6 idle current, plate voltage, heater current, etc to meet 6L6 specs. When you pop the EL34 in there, everyting is just "close enough" but not optimal.
Try the Ruby on your Nohr and give them enough time to break in. The Ruby EL34B is more like a 6CA7 in tonal balance and performance.
I'm sure it will sound better with the 5881.

heiney9

The Ruby's are 6L6 GC-STR, and they are horrible. Hashy, hazy, nasally, siblance prone and very, very forward, the tone is awful. The RCA 6V6's in the other amp absolutely stomp them is every catagory. While the driver tubes aren't the same, they are similar.

The VP-16 runs circles around the I-30. I won't pay the ridiculous prices for RCA 6L6 black plates so if the Tung Sol 5881's and the SED Winged C 6L6's don't improve the sound then I will move it along. The Winged C EL34's sounded even worse than the Ruby 6L6's. I can't imagine what people see in these Ruby tubes, I really can't. If I wasn't going to include them with the amp when I sell it, they would have become BB gun fodder.

Sorry I don't mean to sound so negative about the Ruby's after about an hour I can't stand the sound coming out, dreck.

H9

heiney9

The VP-16 is detailed but very relaxed and creamy smooth. The I-30 sounds like a middle of the road SS amp. There is no clarity, it's all hashy and tizzy (which is what I experience to one degree or another with new production tubes) and very forward. The midrange is unnaturally emphasized and it sounds flat and lifeless. The VP-16 is exactly the opposite. On some acoustic stuff I'd swear they were in the room with me. The I-30 sounds like it's playing a recording.

I am just frustrated, because I had high expectations even with the stock power tubes, and I am anxious for my other tubes to arrive.

Just venting a little bit. I won't give up on the I-30 just yet.

H9

heiney9

I also have changed the driver and phase splitter tubes using different combo's of 12AX7's (50's Valvo-Hamburg, 60's Valvo-Herleen, 50's RCA long black plate, 80's Ei) and 12AU7's (60's Tung Sol, 60's Sylvania gray plate, 60's RCA clear tops) with a very similar result so I that's why I'm blaming the power tubes.

H9

organ

Oh man, I must be off my meds. For some reason I thought the amp shipped with Ruby EL34's. Sorry about that.
I have no experience with the Ruby 6L6 but I do enjoy their EL34B.
Did you already order the =C= 6L6GC? If not, thetubestore.com is having a sale on them. $40/pair vs $70/pair when not on sale.
Just by reading your posts, I can feel your pain waiting for those 5881. Happened to me once on a pair of mono blocks using 6C33C-B. One tube was defective and I had to order another. Makes the time go slooow lol.

heiney9

organ wrote: »

Oh man, I must be off my meds. For some reason I thought the amp shipped with Ruby EL34's. Sorry about that.
I have no experience with the Ruby 6L6 but I do enjoy their EL34B.
Did you already order the =C= 6L6GC? If not, thetubestore.com is having a sale on them. $40/pair vs $70/pair when not on sale.
Just by reading your posts, I can feel your pain waiting for those 5881. Happened to me once on a pair of mono blocks using 6C33C-B. One tube was defective and I had to order another. Makes the time go slooow lol.

I bought a slightly used quad on Ebay of SED 6L6's. Wonder how long the sale is. I love the SED EL34, so if that's the case with the SED 6L6 I'd buy a spare quad. My goal for the rest of the year is to start stock piling my favorite Old Stock tubes. I can't believe how much prices have increased in the past 12-18 mos. I do like the SED Winged C tubes, but those have gone up over 60% in price oin the past 12 months.

Wish I would have known about the sale, because I paid $71 for a slightly used quad on Ebay.

H9

P.s. the sale pairs are high current pairs so they are out of spec, I did see those. Not sure I could use those in my amp.

organ

$71 is a very good price for a slightly used quad. At least you don't have to wait for them to break in. You can always contact them to see how long the sale will be. Their customer service is excellent.
That's a good idea about stocking up on old stock tubes. That's what I did many years ago and now have a lifetime supply of Amperex 6DJ8 and the Sylvania 7199.

I'm also very worried about the prices on the =C= tubes. I heard they were shut down temporarily, but that was 2 years ago. Haven't heard anything since then. I seriously hope they start production again.
I plan to stock up on the =C= EL34.

Man, you should've seen the prices 10 years ago. I remember paying less than $15 ea for Ei 12AX7 and U7. And I thought NOS prices were high back then lol.

Western Electric purchased all the equipments from Ei but still nothing yet.

heiney9

The biggest problem is the EL34 is popular for audio, the 6V6 and 6L6 are popular for classic guitar amps. I paid pretty decent for the 3 quads of RCA black plate 6V6's, but the RCA blackplate 6L6 prices are insane at almost $75 per tube for used and $125+ for new . I won't pay the $$$ for Mullard EL34's. The =C= status has me worried too. I bought a quad over a year ago for less than a pair sells for today. I have a pair of Tesla's too, and those are almost as much as Mullards.

Luckily my office rigs don't get a lot of use, maybe 40 hours a month split between 3 integrated amps.

heiney9

All I can say is I was so engaged listening to the Dared VP-16 again. I hadn't pulled it out in awhile that I ended up staying up until almost 2AM listening. It was fabulous and I was completely enthralled. Now I remember why I almost bought a 2nd VP-16 as a back up because it is that GOOD.

I can only hope the I-30 reaches that level. I have heard good reports of huge improvements getting rid of the Ruby power tubes (which I believe are Svetlana's). In all honesty if it wasn't for the increase in power and drop dead gorgeous looks of the Dared I-30, I could live with the VP-16 for a very long time. I can not stress enough what great tubes do for a tube amp. The 1956 Sylvania JAN CHS 6SL7WGT's in the driver position (black plate, sq getter) and the 1958 RCA gray glass black plate 6V6's are what really make the VP-16 accel. It was shipped with JJ 6V6's and Tung Sol re-issue 6SL7's and the Sylvania and RCA tubes absolutely blow those out of the water, not even close by any standard.

Looks like packages will be arriving today, just in time for the weekend.

H9

schwarcw

Keep trying Brock! You will optimize this amp if anybody can!

heiney9

schwarcw wrote: »

Keep trying Brock! You will optimize this amp if anybody can!

Thanks Carl!

We are in business. Spent a few hours listening to SED =C= 6L6GC's and they are sooooooooooo much better sounding than the Ruby's (which I have read are Svetlana's). Clarity and detail are back as well a more controlled bass and much less shouty midrange. If anything they are just slightly rolled off at the upper frequencies. So far, excellent compared to the Ruby 6L6's. I'll comment more as I have time to listen and take notes.

Also received the final pair of 1962 Tung Sol 5881's so I'll be rolling those in this weekend as well, as time permits.

brianle

Did the sed tubes also fix the thin sound issue?

heiney9

brianle wrote: »

Did the sed tubes also fix the thin sound issue?

The EL34's sound thin, but yes the SED =C= 6L6GC's sound really good so far.

organ

Good to hear things are improving for you with the SED 6L6. Hope you get what you're looking for with the 5881.

heiney9

Update:

Well the 1962 Tung Sol's were a complete bust. Obviously even though the literature states these use a 6L6G it in fact should use a 6L6GC.(which is a different animal than the 6L6G, 6L6GA, GB and 5881).

After about 5 minutes of use I could smell burning acrid smell and while there was no arcing or glowing plates or distortion, it was clear the plate voltage was higher than the maximum for the 5881. (atleast NOS 5881's). Plush the tubes were very, very hot. So these will be going up for sale shortly and I guess I'll bite the bullet for OS RCA's or Sylvania 6L6GC's.

On a positive note the Winged =C= 6L6GC's sound very good.

H9

organ

Ouch. Take a look under the hood. The burning smell is never a good thing. Could have damaged a cap, resistor, etc and bring it out of spec.
With the unit, try calling your dealer and ask about an exchange. Tell them about the instruction book that said you can roll 6L6 and that it was a mistake.
Before selling the 5881, try to get them on a tube tester first. If the plate voltage was too high, it may have stripped the cathode and the tube will no longer have strong emissions.

organ

Sorry, I meant 6L6 on my last sentence, not 5881.

heiney9

Rolled 1955 Sylvania short black plate, sq getter 12AU7's in place of the Tung Sols and it tamed it down just enough for what I was looking for. The midrange is just a tad too muddy with both the Sylvania and RCA 12AX7 black plates on place. Think I'll roll in the Ei Yugo 12AX7's and try those.

Having fun and the sound is excellent, fair amount of heat for an 86* day.

H9

heiney9

I have to say it again, I can't believe how much different tubes and tube combo's can sound. It's just so amazing and so much fun at the same time to experience the song differently everytime I roll something different.

The bass extension is just scary and vocals are so eerily smooth and vibrant. All I did was change the 12AU7 from a 1965 Tung Sol gray plate to a 1955 Sylvania black plate. Time to hunt some more of these Sylvania's.

On another note this amp isn't common ground so I can't currently use it in the main rig like I wanted to. Just occasionally to mix things up once in awhile. I guess I'll have to look into building an AI-1.

H9

heiney9

Yeah just hit the trifecta jackpot!

1960 Valvo large halo Heerlen 12AX7 and 1955 Sylvania short black plate, sq getter 12AU7 (organ pulls that are dead quiet) and SED =C= 6L6GC.

Talk about smooth as butter and dynamic.

WOWZA, I think I found the combination that works.................of course anyone who knows me, knows I will try others as well.

schwarcw

Keep the tubes rollin' Brock!

brianle

H9, is this the one that you are using?

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=330734409024&index=3&nav=SEARCH&nid=68302671826

heiney9

Yes Brian, those are the ones exactly.

H9

heiney9

And I have hit tube nirvana with the Dared I-30.....

1960 Sylvania Gold JHS 5751 3 mica gray plates and 1955 Sylvania JHS 2 mica black plate 12AU7 (yes JHS in a 12AU7) and SED =C= 6L6GC.

Holy crap does this thing sound fantastic. Pretty much perfection. I do have some 1959 Sylvania Gold JHS 5814 3 mica gray plates to try yet in the 12AU7 position.

I have a BIG smile on my face. The 5B's sound frickin' fantastic.

H9

doctor r

A little patience with focused trial and error can lead to a little personal audio nirvana. Enjoy (don't forget to sleep tonight)
Rick

heiney9

You must, must try an early 1960 Mullard Mitcham short plate ECC82 (12AU7) Gf1 R0L1. Wowza, another great combo with 1962 Valvo labeled Heerlen Holland ECC83 (12AX7). Puts you right in the middle of the music, thunderously tight bass, dynamic and an extremely fast, lively midrange, very 3-D (real life sounding) but not syrupy at all. Very clean highs with great depth and decay. I could literally stop here as this is just magic.

H9

heiney9

Just scored a nice matched pair of ECC83 (12AX7) Valvo branded Mullard (Blackburn) Longplates for a ridiculous price. The seller didn't really know what he had. f92 B8D is 1958 - 17mm longplate w/ring getter made in Blackburn.

There are deals out there if you are willing to work hard at checking Ebay all the time and know exactly what you are looking for.

H9

heiney9

Just to give you an idea NOS - f92 Mullard long plates from a dealer (if you can even find one who has them) run $300-400/pr. I've seen used pairs go on ebay from $150-250 and I scored a pair for $59. :loneranger::cheesygrin:

H9

pitdogg2

heiney9 wrote: »

Just to give you an idea NOS - f92 Mullard long plates from a dealer (if you can even find one who has them) run $300-400/pr. I've seen used pairs go on ebay from $150-250 and I stole a pair for $59. :loneranger::cheesygrin:

H9

fixed it fer ya Brock
Ivan