12 AWG Speaker Cable Manufactures??? Newbie

transmaster

I never thought about the pill angle but it's true. I remember getting dagger eyes from a high end audiophile salesmen. They had a brand of speaker cable that was beautiful and just happened to look very much like the orginal power cord on a 1936 vintage Zenith console radio I had just finished restoring. The looks I got when I told him what I was going to do with the 4 feet of cable I purchased.

F1nut

transmaster wrote: »

If you audiofools want to pay $50 dollars a foot for "Audio Transmission Conduit" go for it because all you will have is the abllity to brag to fellow audiofools that you paid $50 dollars a foot for speaker cable with a fancy name. I have compaired zip cord with some really fancy and expensive audio cable on one of my "O" scopes. The only difference you can see is the resistance is a tiny bit less in the fancy cable, but that is because of the oxygen free copper conductor. The only really cool thing about this fancy cable is some of it is beautiful to look at and on that basis would be a great addition to a rooms decor.

Nice :rolleyes:

Welcome to the BOZO list.

BlueFox

Thanks F1 for the bump on this post.

transmaster wrote: »

There is so much Voodoo Bovine Scatology in speaker cables it is a howler. Speaker cable does one thing transmits electormotive energy to the voice coils on your speakers.

Where can I get an amp that generates this "electormotive energy"?

If you audiofools want to pay $50 dollars a foot for "Audio Transmission Conduit" go for it because all you will have is the abllity to brag to fellow audiofools that you paid $50 dollars a foot for speaker cable with a fancy name.

Why buy the cheap stuff? Being lazy, rather than waste time bragging, I would rather enjoy the music.

transmaster

I have been a musician, professional at times. for over 45 years I know exactly what most instruments sound like, indeed I play many of them. This whole argument about speaker cable reminds me of arch fundamental Christians. These people are dead serious when they try to tell me the Earth is somewhere around 6,000 years old. I am also a hamradio operator I know a great deal about transmission lines. When you take away the just plain horse crap most of the rest of what is sited for high end speaker cable as fact only applies to transmission lines for radio frequencies.

This tell it like it really is.

Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers

By Nilay Patel posted March 3rd 2008 8:03PM

We've always believed that the perceived quality boost that comes from using high-end cables is really just a trick of the mind (read: justifying the ridiculous cost of premium cables to yourself) -- if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want. Still, our belief is one thing -- cold hard proof is another, and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers. Yeah, coat hangers. The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer running the test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speaker connections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent. No wonder Monster has to rig HD displays. Still, we bet people still fall for the hype -- oh hey, if you're looking for the ultimate in sound, we've got half a meter of oxygen-free, triple-wrapped double-insulated Sonically Shielded AmpliSized Egyptian Llama cable here that we'll part ways with for just a couple grand.

[

transmaster

BlueFox wrote: »

Where can I get an amp that generates this "electromotive" energy

Easy just put a voltmeter on the amp you are using now. Electromotive energy or force is an old name for voltage.

BlueFox

transmaster wrote: »

Easy just put a voltmeter on the amp you are using now. Electromotive energy or force is an old name for voltage.

OK. I learned something; a synonym for voltage. Thanks.

jghglofer

@tpb68polk hey i hope you can help me on a setup i have
onkyo tx-nr809 av
fronts polk rtia5
center polk csia6
rear fxi3
sub psw505
panasonic dmp-bdt310 blu-ray
watching blu-rays it sounds great but for music it sounds like ****
can you help me with the EQ on this set up im more movies then music but its about 70/30 so when i want music
i want it to sound clear and crisp
hope you can help me
thanks jghglofer

cowtrimmer

BlueFox wrote: »

Irrelevant.

How so ??

F1nut

cowtrimmer wrote: »

How so ??

You lack of personal experience.

Turbota

bemgolf ...

Well, you have recieved lots of advice here.

The fact is, you are needing speaker wire that will be no longer than 25-30 feet in length. And I am thinking that your amplifier is more than likely no more than 300 w/ch.

And this is for a home installation ... right?

Buy a good quality roll of 14 AWG speaker wire and you will be ok. That guage is more than big enough for a short 25 foot run.

Good qualty speaker wire is cooper braided wire that is oxygen free.

That wire made by Monoprice that others have told you about is very good quality wire, and would be perfect for your audio system.

Now, if you want to pay more money ... that's all up to you, but you WILL NOT sacrifice audio quality with the Monoprice 14 AWG speaker wire.

Enjoy your audio system!

F1nut

Turbota wrote:

Now, if you want to pay more money ... that's all up to you, but you WILL NOT sacrifice audio quality with the Monoprice 14 AWG speaker wire.

You know this how?

Turbota

F1nut ... I didn't read every post in this thread .... Again, what speaker wire did you recommend that the OP buy for his home audio system?

F1nut

I didn't.

So again, how do you know that one would NOT sacrifice audio quality with the Monoprice 14 AWG speaker wire? Have you tried others to form that opinion?

Turbota

Are you in an arguementative mood for some reason tonight?

There is not one person in this forum that has tried every various piece of speaker wire that's on the market, including you.

I have used 5 or 6 brands on speaker wire in the past. Perhaps my ears are not as good as yours, but to be honest, I can't tell the difference between a quality speaker wire and lamp cord.

It is obvious by your post that you feel expensive wire is better than cheap wire. At least that's the feeling I get from reading your posts.

Instead of questioning me, why don't you just tell the OP what wire you recommend? He is the one asking the questions.

DarqueKnight

bemgolf wrote: »

I am looking for a couple good online dealers that offer 12 AWG that is CL2 rated. I have read numerous articles that state the 12 AWS is better than the smaller 14 AWS, and if you can afford it get it. This is kinda confusing because on mono price the cable is very affordable at $35.00 for 100 ft. If you go to other sites their cable is like $199.99 for monster. I have three questions.

Are these two cables the same quality?

What is with the price difference? Normally cheaper is not better but you never know until you ask?

I really am not looking to spend a gazillion dollars on cable but I would like good to great quality. Can you give me your top 5 manufactures that you have had good experiences with and online retailer sites to get them.

Just more info as to what it will be used for.

70% tv viewing and sporting events
20% movies
10% gaming

Thanks for your input

These kinds of questions are like going to a tire store, asking for a tire recommendation and stating that you do 70% driving to/from work, 20% errands and 10% sightseeing. A little more information, such as your vehicle make and model, desired ride comfort, braking performance, etc. would assure a better recommendation. Two tires of the exact same quality, but with different performance specs, will ride differently. It's the same with cables.

It would help if we knew what equipment you are using and your listening preferences (if any). Listening preferences are things like neutral sound (no part of the frequecy spectrum is emphasized), brighter sound (tonal balance tilted toward high frequencies), etc. Different cables can affect the tonal balance of your audio system in different ways.

Online retailers like Crutchfield and Audio Advisor can provide good cable recommendations for your particular system. You can even try different brands and return the ones you didn't like, or return all of them.

Recommendations are nice to have, but they are no substitute for getting in the trenches and hearing for yourself.

============================================

transmaster wrote: »

I have been a musician, professional at times. for over 45 years I know exactly what most instruments sound like, indeed I play many of them. This whole argument about speaker cable reminds me of arch fundamental Christians. These people are dead serious when they try to tell me the Earth is somewhere around 6,000 years old. I am also a hamradio operator I know a great deal about transmission lines. When you take away the just plain horse crap most of the rest of what is sited for high end speaker cable as fact only applies to transmission lines for radio frequencies.

This tell it like it really is.

Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers

By Nilay Patel posted March 3rd 2008 8:03PM

We've always believed that the perceived quality boost that comes from using high-end cables is really just a trick of the mind (read: justifying the ridiculous cost of premium cables to yourself) -- if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want. Still, our belief is one thing -- cold hard proof is another, and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers. Yeah, coat hangers. The group was A-Bing different cables, and unbeknownst to them, the engineer running the test swapped out a set of cables for coat hangers with soldered-on speaker connections. Not a single one was then able to tell the difference between the Monster Cable and the hangers, and all agreed that the hangers sounded excellent. No wonder Monster has to rig HD displays. Still, we bet people still fall for the hype -- oh hey, if you're looking for the ultimate in sound, we've got half a meter of oxygen-free, triple-wrapped double-insulated Sonically Shielded AmpliSized Egyptian Llama cable here that we'll part ways with for just a couple grand.

Do you know anything about the listening training and listening ability of the 12 self-professed "audiophiles"?

Do you know the conditions under which the "test" was conducted? For example, were samples A/B'ed so rapidly that the "audiophiles" couldn't get a good mental lock on what they were hearing?

Do you know the true meaning of audiophile?

I'm glad I came into this hobby before the Internet became available. Back then, the advice I always got from knowledgeable, experienced audiophiles, who loved music, was "how much do you want to spend?", followed by "go listen to this or that".

Now, someone looking for solid advice has to put up with a multitude of parroted misinformation from the Internet that tries to mislead people into believing that everything sounds alike.

So sad.

F1nut

Turbota wrote: »

Are you in an arguementative mood for some reason tonight?

Not really.

There is not one person in this forum that has tried every various piece of speaker wire that's on the market, including you.

I agree.

I have used 5 or 6 brands on speaker wire in the past. Perhaps my ears are not as good as yours, but to be honest, I can't tell the difference between a quality speaker wire and lamp cord.

Fair enough.

It is obvious by your post that you feel expensive wire is better than cheap wire. At least that's the feeling I get from reading your posts.

Basically, that has been my experience, although it often comes down to what flavor works best and the all important synergy factor.

Instead of questioning me, why don't you just tell the OP what wire you recommend? He is the one asking the questions.

I was more interested in knowing how you arrived at your absolute.

cowtrimmer

F1nut wrote: »

You lack of personal experience.

.....I see how it is, your one of those guys that buys expensive equipment and automatically that makes you some type of audiophile . Please adorn us peons with any links to some of your published works on anything audio for us to educate ourselves. BTW your 25k post's on the polk audio forum doesnt count. :rolleyes:

F1nut

cowtrimmer wrote: »

.....I see how it is, your one of those guys that buys expensive equipment and automatically that makes you some type of audiophile .

Well, no. I started with some really entry level stuff over 40 years ago. You?

Please adorn us peons with any links to some of your published works on anything audio for us to educate ourselves.

Don't you think that personal experience matters more?

BTW your 25k post's on the polk audio forum doesnt count. :rolleyes:

Why are you judging me on my post count. How about you judge me by what I share from my personal experiences, which you are welcome to learn from or ignore. I don't care which.

I read an article some one posted over on the AVS forums once that basically said the difference couldn't be distinguished with our hearing capabilities. Personally if it was me I would just buy the 14 awg wire from monoprice.

So you read it and therefore it must be true? How about finding out for yourself?

cowtrimmer

F1nut wrote: »

So you read it and therefore it must be true? How about finding out for yourself?

I know man has been on the moon, I don't need to make the flight to believe it.

BlueFox

cowtrimmer wrote: »

I know man has been on the moon, I don't need to make the flight to believe it.

So, now you are comparing facts, man on moon, to unsubstantiated opinions. That really makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:

Turbota

All this new guy does is ask a simple question about what would be a good set of speaker wires for his audio system. And after just a few posts by our members giving him some good advice, now all we get is this needless bickering between ourselves about the very question the OP is asking.

You know .... I sometimes get the feeling it's not even worth the trouble to ask a simple question on this baord.

I am a member of the Corvette forum, and I don't see this kind of crap happening over there at all.

Yup, I know ... 'If you like the Corvette Forum so much, what are you doing hanging around in here anyway'!

F1nut

cowtrimmer wrote: »

I know man has been on the moon, I don't need to make the flight to believe it.

You're not doing too well, you might want to think about starting over.

cowtrimmer

BlueFox wrote: »

So, now you are comparing facts, man on moon, to unsubstantiated opinions. That really makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:

How do you know they are unsubstantiated opinions when I made reference to an article I had read ? About as substantiated as anything or any opinion I have ever read on here. The same could be set for countless hundreds of other threads on this forum. A person would ask a question about how speaker xyz stands up to speaker trf and its only opinion is it not ? I guess the way anything is only true and factual is if you have personally seen it or bought it according to you or f1nut. They should have a precursor on any thread that you only need reply if you have pre approved factual evidence approved by bluefox or the other guy. LOL

DarqueKnight

Turbota wrote: »

Yup, I know ... 'If you like the Corvette Forum so much, what are you doing hanging around in here anyway'!

Nothing wrong with frequenting several forums according to your interests. It is wrong to compare one forum to another when you don't know the differences in moderation levels and the general differences in population characteristics (maturity, knowledge, level of interest, etc.).

Corvettes aren't cheap. They aren't a general consumer item like much of the merchandise in audio, therefore I would expect that the age, income and maturity level of the Corvette forum to be much different than that of a general audio forum.

Turbota wrote: »

I am a member of the Corvette forum, and I don't see this kind of crap happening over there at all.

The Corvette is a high-end performance vehicle, right? If you go to an audio forum that caters to high end audio enthusiasts, you won't see this kind of crap happening over there either.

Imagine this: What if people who have no relevant experience with performance automobiles in general, and none with Corvettes in particular, were always jumping in people's faces saying stuff like "this or that performance tweak is a waste of money" or "Corvettes are for people with small d*ck syndrome" or "there's no difference between the various Corvette models that a sensible person would recognize" or always throwing up some rigged contest where a Corvette was "beaten" by a Honda Accord/Ford Taurus/Toyota Camry?

What then?

BlueFox

DK, you do great analogies. To bad they are lost on the intended audience. To continue on the Corvette theme, here we also get posts that state with authority, "I read an article that stated the differences between a Yugo and a Corvette are either imaginary, or cannot be experienced by the average driver."

DarqueKnight

BlueFox wrote: »

DK, you do great analogies. To bad they are lost on the intended audience.

The thing that is really too bad is that the anonymity and near-instantaneous convenience of the Internet allows anyone with access to a computer and Google to delude themselves into believing that the ability to cut, paste and parrot qualifies one as a subject matter expert. No thinking or reasoning is required. Ninety-nine percent of the mess that is passed off as "scientific fact" wouldn't be re-posted if people would just stop and think about whether what they just read makes any sense.

tonyb

DarqueKnight wrote: »

to delude themselves into believing that the ability to cut, paste and parrot qualifies one as a subject matter expert. No thinking or reasoning is required. .

A absolutely, positively, huge, I mean really 'effin' big....Amen to all that.

cowtrimmer

Maybe while you guys are standing around you can give us your insight on speaker wire ?

F1nut

cowtrimmer wrote: »

Maybe while you guys are standing around you can give us your insight on speaker wire ?

Feel free to search my 25,000+ posts for that info and welcome to my Bozo list.

DarqueKnight

cowtrimmer wrote: »

Maybe while you guys are standing around in your circle jerk you can give us your insight on speaker wire ?

Tell you what...a bunch of us will be at Polk HQ this October for Polkfest. Why don't you stop by, catch a group of us talking and repeat the above? Some insights are best given in person.