12 AWG Speaker Cable Manufactures??? Newbie

bemgolf

I am looking for a couple good online dealers that offer 12 AWG that is CL2 rated. I have read numerous articles that state the 12 AWS is better than the smaller 14 AWS, and if you can afford it get it. This is kinda confusing because on mono price the cable is very affordable at $35.00 for 100 ft. If you go to other sites their cable is like $199.99 for monster. I have three questions.

Are these two cables the same quality?

What is with the price difference? Normally cheaper is not better but you never know until you ask?

I really am not looking to spend a gazillion dollars on cable but I would like good to great quality. Can you give me your top 5 manufactures that you have had good experiences with and online retailer sites to get them.

Just more info as to what it will be used for.

70% tv viewing and sporting events
20% movies
10% gaming

Thanks for your input

zane77

Go with the monoprice

mantis

Give me your system layout and I'll spec the correct speaker wire for your system. I'll need guess lengths as well.

On a side note not all wire is created equal. Some preserve the signal and some distort it. Gauge is very important to get the correct size for the length , amp and speakers you are planning on using. Quality is another factor which one has to consider before wiring up a system.

AWG is a standard which all should follow. It's been tested and tested again. CL2 or Cl3 rated wire is what is required to run inside the walls of a home. Direct Burial is what is needed if you plan on using outdoor speakers detached from the house like rocks or Deck mounted. This wire is designed to withstand the elements. You still need the correct gauge and quality to match the given system.

Monstercable is a quality product and want top dollar for their cables and speaker wires. There is better alternatives but some systems benefit from their products. Most don't like that company due to crappy Business practices but their wires are of very good quality.

bemgolf

speakers

FR,FL,RR, RL - Polk Monitor 30
Center - Polk CS1
Sub - Polk PSW10
Receiver Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1

to rear left and right about 25 ft
to front left and right about 15 ft
Center about 12 ft
Sub about 12 ft

Thanks

mantis

You need to use 16 or 14 gauge wire. Monoprice has nice quality wire that will work very well with your given system. The lengths your running , the power you have and the response of your speakers , you can go with 16 gauge.

Here is what I suggest to get a spool of
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=2824&seq=1&format=2
If you want something a little better and better sounding IMO which I feel holds the signal properly I suggest this
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703162125/AudioQuest-FLX-16-2-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker-Cable-125-feet.html
Now if down the road you plan on a higher end receiver and better speakers then you can just buy this and really never need anything better
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703142250/AudioQuest-FLX-14-2-14-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker-Cable-250-feet.html

So depending on lengths you need , you purchase a roll that suits your needs and maybe buy some extra if you mis calculated length or just need more at a future time. I usually buy a 250 or 500 foot roll and now I can build all the wire I want or need for awhile. I personally use Flx14-2 and 14-4 all around my house including my theater system.

Syndil

bemgolf wrote: »

What is with the price difference? Normally cheaper is not better but you never know until you ask?

To address this directly, the difference is how much you pay. That's it. The dealer discount on Monster cables is 60% right off the bat, and I guarantee you they are still making a hefty profit even at that rate.

bemgolf

Are you saying that 12 awg would damage my speakers or receiver‚ or a waste of money? Everyone and their mother say it sounds better

bemgolf

Are you saying that 12 awg would damage my speakers or receiver? or a waste of money? Everyone and their mother say it sounds better

cowtrimmer

I read an article some one posted over on the AVS forums once that basically said the difference couldn't be distinguished with our hearing capabilities. Personally if it was me I would just buy the 14 awg wire from monoprice.

BlueFox

cowtrimmer wrote: »

I read an article some one posted over on the AVS forums once that basically said the difference couldn't be distinguished with our hearing capabilities. Personally if it was me I would just buy the 14 awg wire from monoprice.

Irrelevant.

tonyb

zane77 wrote: »

Go with the monoprice

Says it all, for M30's thats all you need. You will not hear a difference between 14-12 ga.

gp4jesus

Posted this on OP's other thread
Paraphrased: "While driving a pair of 4 ohm (nominal) subs I heard an overwhelming difference between a single 12' run of 10ga MC versus a double 6' run of the same! EVERYTHING sounded fat! Had to turn down the LP filter to sub considerably to restore the system's tonal balance."

"Bigger pipes carry mo' water, mo' better!" No one's opinion's can change the laws of physics."

Tony

Syndil

bemgolf wrote: »

Are you saying that 12 awg would damage my speakers or receiver? or a waste of money? Everyone and their mother say it sounds better

It's impossible to damage your speakers by using wire that is "too large." Waste of money? If you're talking about 12AWG vs 14AWG Monoprice cables, the price difference is so insignificant, may as well go for the larger. But if you're asking if you can hear a difference between 12AWG and 14AWG, or if you can hear a difference between $35 Monoprice cables and $200 Monster cables... That is the most hotly debated topic among audio enthusiasts and depends entirely on who you ask.

I will be derided by some for posting this, but it is something you should read IMO. But ultimately the answer to your question depends on you.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

gp4jesus

One man's opinions...

thsmith

mantis wrote: »

You need to use 16 or 14 gauge wire. Monoprice has nice quality wire that will work very well with your given system. The lengths your running , the power you have and the response of your speakers , you can go with 16 gauge.

Here is what I suggest to get a spool of
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=2824&seq=1&format=2
If you want something a little better and better sounding IMO which I feel holds the signal properly I suggest this
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703162125/AudioQuest-FLX-16-2-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker-Cable-125-feet.html
Now if down the road you plan on a higher end receiver and better speakers then you can just buy this and really never need anything better
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703142250/AudioQuest-FLX-14-2-14-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker-Cable-250-feet.html

So depending on lengths you need , you purchase a roll that suits your needs and maybe buy some extra if you mis calculated length or just need more at a future time. I usually buy a 250 or 500 foot roll and now I can build all the wire I want or need for awhile. I personally use Flx14-2 and 14-4 all around my house including my theater system.

Solid advise.

One thing to consider is will you want to upgrade in the future, if so go with something like above to keep your options open and not need to upgrade cable for awhile.

I used monoprice cable in the past, it works and is cheap. Go with that if you never plan to upgrade.

tpb68polk

fist off, dont get all caught up in the hype. Speaker cable is speaker cable is speaker cable. For the average listener up to so-called audiophile listeners ANY oxygen-free pure copper speaker cable will work just fine. 12ga is better for subs or larger main speakers, 14ga is best for bookshelf sized speakers, and 16ga for satellite sized speakers. Runs of more than 50' should upgrade to the next size. Ebay is a good place to get good, cheap, speaker cable in many varieties.

thsmith

Thats terrible advise.

tpb68polk

Im listening.....

F1nut

You may be listening, but have you actually listened?

tpb68polk

just because an electronic metering device says its better, doesnt mean you can hear the difference. for those of us that do not have bionic ears, why pay the difference if you cant hear the difference. for those that do have bionic ears it must suck to have to pay 10x the price for your speaker cable. didnt mean to start a wire war, just trying to give honest cable advice thats not retail driven.
unless you plan to spend a few grand on the speakers, why overpay for the wire.

tpb68polk

the cable I use specs the same and looks the same as the crutchfield wire you recommend. I buy it on ebay for $80/ 250' roll of 14/2-CL2. am I missing something? Ive used this wire on some high end speakers with great results.

tonyb

tpb68polk wrote: »

fist off, dont get all caught up in the hype. Speaker cable is speaker cable is speaker cable.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

tpb68polk

mantis wrote: »

You need to use 16 or 14 gauge wire. Monoprice has nice quality wire that will work very well with your given system. The lengths your running , the power you have and the response of your speakers , you can go with 16 gauge.

Here is what I suggest to get a spool of
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=2824&seq=1&format=2
If you want something a little better and better sounding IMO which I feel holds the signal properly I suggest this
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703162125/AudioQuest-FLX-16-2-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker-Cable-125-feet.html
Now if down the road you plan on a higher end receiver and better speakers then you can just buy this and really never need anything better
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703142250/AudioQuest-FLX-14-2-14-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker-Cable-250-feet.html

So depending on lengths you need , you purchase a roll that suits your needs and maybe buy some extra if you mis calculated length or just need more at a future time. I usually buy a 250 or 500 foot roll and now I can build all the wire I want or need for awhile. I personally use Flx14-2 and 14-4 all around my house including my theater system.

the cable I use specs and looks the same as the crutchfield cable you recommend. I buy it on ebay for $80 per 250' roll of 14/2-CL2. I have used it with high end speakers with great results. Am I missing something?

F1nut

tpb68polk wrote: »

just because an electronic metering device says its better, doesnt mean you can hear the difference.

I was referring to using your ears, not what the specs tell you.

for those that do have bionic ears it must suck to have to pay 10x the price for your speaker cable.

Not at all, it makes the listening experience that much better.

Am I missing something?

Possibly.

mantis

tpb68polk wrote: »

the cable I use specs and looks the same as the crutchfield cable you recommend. I buy it on ebay for $80 per 250' roll of 14/2-CL2. I have used it with high end speakers with great results. Am I missing something?

Sounds like your missing experience. Thats fine as if you can benefit from my words thats a good thing , if you disagree with what I bring to the table , thats fine 2.
Have you ever sat and listened to a system wired with speaker wire X and then changed it out for speaker wire Y and heard any difference in the reproduction of the music you love? If you did this and felt there was no benefit from good quality wire then please purchase what you feel is right for your given system. Please don't' start a wire war as they get old very fast and people in here have very strong opinions of the given wire they use and love for good reason , they feel it benefits their given system and we are all not here to argue that point. Agreed?
If you want to explore this topic in any way , most members that have been around here for many years have all traveled down this path and learned about the difference wire in one system can make. Some fell in love with the idea that small improvements where worth whatever the price tag of given wire was and decided this was a good idea. Some thought that it didn't help their given system or benefit in any way and decided to use something else.

I've been in this hobby since the 80's and have been a professional since the 90's. I have been down this road so many times I probably should get my head examined , at least thats what my wife thinks as I have an unbelievable amount of wire from over the years.

So now I ask you and you alone , do you want the red pill or the blue pill? Take the blue pill this conversation is over , you keep buying your wire how you see fit as it seems price dictates your decisions and off you go. Take the red pill and lets see how deep this rabbit hole really goes. If your willing to listen , be constructive I'll teach you , decide to pick fights or cause problems and the lessons stop right there.

I'm willing to lead if your willing to try.

tonyb

I like the little blue pills myself.

tpb68polk

thanks Mantis, but I was hoping for more than 1 level headed response. I love a good debate, but that usually involves more than just telling someone how wrong they are. And I do appreciate a strong willed opponent. I dont need the red pill because I know exactly how deep the rabbit hole goes. Like you Mantis, Ive been in this game since the mid 80s, and started doing professional home theater installs in 2002. By late 2008 I noticed my client list was very heavy in the low budget end of things. Although I kept using Onkyo components and Polk speakers, just cheaper models,and I still needed to cut cost. I started doing extensive research on speaker cable; researching construction materials, construction types, bla...bla...bla. Ive done lots of side by side testing with cable/speaker combos, and Im sorry guys, I dont by all the hype. Its a lot of retail propaganda. I will admit, I have never ran a $1000 cable to a $10,000 speaker. Maybe that would change my perspective. And yes Mantis, I agree that I dont want to argue wire philosophy with anyone. Its pointless because we believe what we believe. That doesnt make anyone right or wrong, just different.
We all make our cable/speaker/components purchases based on 2 things: 1) philosophy and 2) budget. Im not a bad guy here, just trying to keep it real for my low budget sidekicks.
Just for kicks, if anyone cares to respond, answer me this.....
You just won $10 million playing the lottery, what brand/model speakers you buyin and what cable you runnin to them?
Thanks for puttin up with me, ha ha

zane77

As the OP posted what he is going to be using it for and listening to, I still think all he needs is the monoprice.

transmaster

There is so much Voodoo Bovine Scatology in speaker cables it is a howler. Speaker cable does one thing transmits electormotive energy to the voice coils on your speakers. There are just a few considerations on what to get. 1. Oxygen free copper is good because this tells you the copper conductor is very pure and will transfer the electrical energy effeciently. 2. The the quality of the insulation, 3, how the cable is terminated. What gauge you purchase is up to you if the cable you want is 10AWG and is nice and flexable that is what to go for. There is nothing wrong with using big cable for short runs, it isn't nessary but there is nothing wrong iwth it. You cannot damage a speaker with the feed cable that is to big, or two smal, this is more Voodoo Bovine Scatology. If you want the straight dope without the crap go here: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/

I get my speaker cable from Monoprice and this is the one I use; http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2817&seq=1&format=2

If you audiofools want to pay $50 dollars a foot for "Audio Transmission Conduit" go for it because all you will have is the abllity to brag to fellow audiofools that you paid $50 dollars a foot for speaker cable with a fancy name. I have compaired zip cord with some really fancy and expensive audio cable on one of my "O" scopes. The only difference you can see is the resistance is a tiny bit less in the fancy cable, but that is because of the oxygen free copper conductor. The only really cool thing about this fancy cable is some of it is beautiful to look at and on that basis would be a great addition to a rooms decor.

polkatese

mantis wrote: »

So now I ask you and you alone , do you want the red pill or the blue pill? Take the blue pill this conversation is over , you keep buying your wire how you see fit as it seems price dictates your decisions and off you go. Take the red pill and lets see how deep this rabbit hole really goes. If your willing to listen , be constructive I'll teach you , decide to pick fights or cause problems and the lessons stop right there.

You made me chuckled here Dan. I need to brush up my Matrix trilogy memories because snipe like this invoke very fond memories of the time and place, when it happened.

We need to put the infamous Rodney's speech: "can we all get along" clip at the beginning of every single cable discussions, before the pic of the carcasses of death horse showed up.

pitdogg2

tpb68polk wrote: »

You just won $10 million playing the lottery, what brand/model speakers you buyin and what cable you runnin to them?

Wilson Alexandria, Legacy Whispers and Polk SDA1.2tl's and whatever wire sounds the best with each pair of speakers. Weather its MIT,JPS labs or some esoteric liquid Teflon stuff because with 10 million i will be able to try many types of wire and make my own informed decision.