Oh no you didn't. Yeah, I did...

steveinaz

I'm giving "2.1" another shot. While the decrease in bass with the Carbon 7 was acceptable, as they still hit the high 30's, low 40's; the Harbeth's are lacking a little too much. Rated around 46Hz (-3dB), they're missing some umph on the bottom end. This, in reality only affects about 5% of my music--and it's the price you pay for excellent midrange/treble. I want to fill in a bit in the lower registers.

While I'm not interested in plowing-earth low energy, nor do I care about "movie effects" I was actually just wanting to get at the mid-upper 20Hz zone. I decided to go with the new "version" SVS PB12-NSD. I looked at the sealed version (SB12-plus), but my room is rather large, and SVS confirmed with me that the PB was likely a better choice with 7ES-3's. The new PB12-NSD features the sledgehammer plate amp @ 400watts/800watts peak, and is fully DSP controlled. Reviews from a number of sources are extremely positive, and new version is nearly dead flat from 18Hz-200Hz; more depth than I needed, but what the heck. I'll be running it line level, from my amps secondary "preamp outputs" (handy) just like I did years ago with my cylinder SVS. I also looked at REL and Velodyne; and also the PB12-plus (just too BIG)--I just didn't see any advantage to going that direction. I will calibrate it for 100% music satisfaction/use, as I have no interest in thunderous bass/explosions, etc; and I don't want to step on the toes of the sound I have now via the Harbeths. SVS recommended a 50Hz crossover point w/24dB cut setup for the 7ES-3.

We'll see what happens. SVS now has 45 day trial, as well as 1 year full value trade-up policies.

heiney9

Good for you Steve.

Too bad you didn't look a Polk's offerings with the wireless Micro Pro's. One of the more impressive, small footprint subs I actually liked. Polk got those right and being wireless and have the calibration mic, etc.

We expect pics and full review as per ususal

falconcry72

very cool!

That recommended 50hz crossover is probably a good starting point, but, as you know, all rooms are different, and I bet you'll end up lower, so as not to interfere with the 7ES-3's.

Congrats! When does it arrive?

SolidSqual

The Micro Pro 4000 is an awesome sub. I had two 3000s and that was sick. Very musical subs, especially with the DSP bass correction. All the same, if I was buying subs today, I'd go for a pair of Gallo T3 subs. They are amazing. One alone would be better than the PB12. Food for thought.

dkg999

Steve - I use the SVS SB-12 Plus with my Magnepan 1.6's. It's a very musical sub, however I agree that it won't fill a room with bass and bass impact like the ported version will.

steveinaz

I was really hesistant to go with the PB12-NSD at first, but conversations with SVS and extremely glowing reviews of this new version made me feel better about the choice. I looked REAL hard at the sealed version SB13-plus*--but it's actually down on output, relatively signifcantly (even though it has a 1000watt amp) when compared to the ported 12-NSD. Sealed versions of course needing a larger amp. SVS agreed, after hearing my listening room was in the "large" category.

Here's the Sound & Vision review (pretty impressive given earlier versions of the PB12): http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-svs-pb12-nsd-subwoofer

Measured performance: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-svs-pb12-nsd-subwoofer?page=0,2

*Correction, it was the sb13-plus that I was considering.

steveinaz

falconcry72 wrote: »

very cool!

That recommended 50hz crossover is probably a good starting point, but, as you know, all rooms are different, and I bet you'll end up lower, so as not to interfere with the 7ES-3's.

Congrats! When does it arrive?

Ordered on Sunday, I would guess by Friday this week? I haven't received anything from SVS yet except for the order verification email.

Worst comes to worse, I'll take advantage of their "trade-up" policy and go bigger if necessary, But I doubt I'll need to. I simply want it to "fill-in" missing low frequency, I don't want floor peeling bass output...LOL; and I certainly don't want the tonality of my Harbeth's getting screwed up. If I can't get completely satisfying results, it will either go back, or I'll hang on to it for future use.

Drenis

Looking forward to the review.

SolidSqual

I'm going to be very interested to hear whether the SVS can actually blend with the particular sound of the Harbeth speakers. I had a chance to hear a pair a little while back and the bass notes were very similar to the sound of open baffle bass (which to my ear is the best and most accurate bass). You are doing some exciting things with your system lately.

Do you have the luxury of placing the sub wherever you need in your room? I remember your listening space appeared to be a family room with a wife nearby. Good luck conquering the WAF.

steveinaz

I don't have much placement flexibility (thanks to the 45 degree fireplace to the right of the right speaker), it will need to go next to the left speaker--there is a good spot there, with plenty of room (looks small in the pic, but it's actually 3ft from the sidewall to the speaker pedastal base); hopefully it works out well for cal purposes. Looking at the attached pic, look to the left of the left speaker---the blanket box will go to allow for placement of the sub. I have 2 options there, face the sub forward along with th speakers, or turn it sideways firing across the system front. I'm going to try the former first.

DaveHo

Did you look at any of the Rythmik offerings? I think one of their sealed servo controlled subs would be a good match for the Harbeths.

-Dave

steveinaz

I did Dave, but SVS just gives me more of a "warm & fuzzy" being a prior owner (PC25-31+) and knowing how good their CS is. I'm going into this a little skeptical, so I wanted to make sure their would be no "hitches" if it doesn't work out. I looked at competitors from:

Rythmik
Velodyne
REL
Epik
HSU

HEY, them dudes are fast. Just got my "your sub has shipped" email. Sweet. To early to track yet on Fedex.

Obsession18

I have the cylinder version of that sub that I use for HT and must say the thing really has very articulate non-boomy bass, I think you will like it for music. 5.1 music content on Palladia really shines. When I do my 2 channel listening the sub stays off, my Linbrook Signature Systems do bass down into the mid 20's and are quite satisfying in that regard.

Question - Why the box version instead of the cylinder? I see you had a cylinder in the past.

steveinaz

Mostly asthetics, partly curiousity. My wife is always a good sport with my audio endevours, and when I mentioned the cylinder to her, I got this feeling she wasn't digging that idea too much. She wouldn't have discouraged me from it, but I tend to agree that I'd prefer to not have the cylinder in the family room---dedicated audio room, sure. In fact, if I had a dedicated room, I would have likely went with the PB12-Plus.

ravaneli

Man, I am looking for a musical sub too. This DSW 660 pro is just not sharp enough for music. I will move it to the living room to help the A7s for HT, but need to figure something strictly for music. I am thinking of going down in size, just so it hits more accurately. Don't need much power.

Why this title though? 'Oh no you didn't, Yeah, I did..' What was so unbelievable? That you got yourself a sub? I mean that's nice but.. it has happened to others before..

Conradicles

good snag steve...i have become a firm believer for 2.1. They key is the sub/room combo.

I am lovin' my VMPS 215.

Conradicles

An I may add eq seems very needed for most subs.

steveinaz

ravaneli wrote: »

Why this title though? 'Oh no you didn't, Yeah, I did..' What was so unbelievable? That you got yourself a sub? I mean that's nice but.. it has happened to others before..

I tried about 8 years ago to integrate a PC25-31+ into my 2 channel but couldn't do it in a way that was satisfying. Different speakers, different room....Since then, I've been pretty vocal about being "anti-sub" in 2 channel setups, hence the title. I actually had some pretty impressive calibration "curves" in the first attempt, but I couldn't get rid of the bass 'thickness" aspect. With hindsight being 20/20, I think the setup was compromised by a couple factors that don't exist with my current house and components.

Face

ravaneli wrote: »

Man, I am looking for a musical sub too. This DSW 660 pro is just not sharp enough for music. I will move it to the living room to help the A7s for HT, but need to figure something strictly for music. I am thinking of going down in size, just so it hits more accurately. Don't need much power.

I would experiment with placement and gain/blending first. Poor placement can make even the best sub sound bad.

steveinaz

Conradicles wrote: »

An I may add eq seems very needed for most subs.

I'm a simplicity freak, so the sub is gonna have to do it's thing without a lot of "help" or it will go bye-bye. I don't think it's going to be a problem this time around. Last time I was trying to integrate nearly full-range towers; which I think is probably the most difficult scenario.

steveinaz

Here's the Audioholics review, FWIW: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd

steveinaz

SUPER-fast. Sub will be here Thursday. I feel a cough coming on....LOL

falconcry72

steveinaz wrote: »

SUPER-fast. Sub will be here Thursday. I feel a cough coming on....LOL

LOL. Yea the weather's been real nice here recently, and a lot of our workforce seems to have developed some sort of Spring Fever...

dkg999

One great thing about SVS, they have excellent and honest CS. I have the SB-12+, bought it not too long after they introduced it. I thought about upgrading to the SB-13+, called SVS, they said it would be an improvement however for the $'s involved it wouldn't be their recommendation.

The new Polk subs are fantastic! I'm using a MicroPro 2000 in my office system. Small, blends well, very musical.

steveinaz

Yep. I was ready to buy the more expensive SB13-plus (in cherry, BTW), but SVS recommended the PB12-NSD because of the large size of my room.

codyc1ark

Conradicles wrote: »

An I may add eq seems very needed for most subs.

I'm going to +1 this, and I'm sure Steve already knows this, even though he touts simplicity. The addition of a SMS-1 did wonders for 2.1, although I do both 2.0/.1 for music. 9's can have some surprising bass for certain music. Enjoy the new sub, and I hope it works out, SVS puts out a nice product. I'd love to hear your VPMS, there is a 'large' version on Audiogon with amp for a great price, but I think it would be a little 'large' for my room.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I'm curious why you chose SVS over REL for a music sub. Aren't the REL offerings generally considered to be the most musical and easy to blend?

leroyjr1

steveinaz wrote: »

I did Dave, but SVS just gives me more of a "warm & fuzzy" being a prior owner (PC25-31+) and knowing how good their CS is. I'm going into this a little skeptical, so I wanted to make sure their would be no "hitches" if it doesn't work out. I looked at competitors from:

Rythmik
Velodyne
REL
Epik
HSU

HEY, them dudes are fast. Just got my "your sub has shipped" email. Sweet. To early to track yet on Fedex.

For music I love running duals and for the price of the dual Epik Legends ($899) I think you would've been very happy.

Face

Dual subs will also net flatter bass response.

tonyb

Better watch it Steve, after the sub you may start to grow that extra set of ears you've been missing.:cheesygrin:

steveinaz

Ah hell no....LOL.