Too much mid bass with LSi 9

24

Comments

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,011
    edited February 2012
    It's no secret we have our share of people not setting up speakers properly or powering them as they should, end result ? Polk speakers suck....or aren't as good as brand xyz. I know thats a tad harsh, but it is what it is.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • PrazVT
    PrazVT Posts: 1,606
    edited February 2012
    +1. I wish I had room in my bedroom to pull my LSi9s out 20". I know that's the only major thing missing w/ my 2 ch setup.

    I don't have any complaints about near field performance w/ mine though. My NAD c375 is a great match, so that helps.
    ALL BOXED UP for a while until I save up for a new place :(

    Home Theater:
    KEF Q900s / MIT Shotgun S3 / MIT CVT2 ICs | KEF Q600C | Polk FXi5 | BJC Wire | Signal / AQ ICs | Shunyata / Pangea PCs | Pioneer Elite SC 57 | Parasound NC2100 Pre | NAD M25 | Marantz SA8001 | Schiit Gungnir DAC | SB Touch

    2 Channel:
    Polk LSi9 (xo mods), Polk DSW MicroPro 2000 sub | NAD c375BEE | W4S DAC1 | SB Touch | Marantz SA-8001 | MIT AVt 2 | Kimber Hero / AQ / Signal ICs | Shunyata / Signal PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited February 2012
    Obviously I didn't do enough homework. I didn't know they could dip into 2 ohm. I bought the LSi 9 based on quick readings on online reviews and attractive price for my home theater.

    BTW, I did bring the LSi 9 into my 2 channel setup room that consists of Ayre Ax-7e int amp, PS Audio Digital Link III DAC, and Squeezebox Touch but the LSi 9 did not sound as good as with the Denon reciever :neutral: Of course, it's a different room acoustics, different equipments, and the LSi 9 is 4 ft from the back wall but the LSi 9 sounded lean and the bass was much tighter.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited February 2012
    tonyb wrote: »
    Will it be justified when a speaker or the receiver goes kaput ?
    ..Lolo..+1!..Tonyb, made my day with this one!.Da Man is right!What else needs too be said about a good amp to be added into his system.Them LSi 9's will thank you for it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,011
    edited February 2012
    I dunno man, the OP claims to be running 4 ohm speakers off that receiver for 10 years, maybe at lower volumes you could get away with it but your short changing yourself on SQ in my book. I just don't get why some would spend the coin they do on speakers and not want to get the most out of them. Thats all I'm saying, if the Op wants to run with a receiver on 4 ohm speakers, knock your socks off. I've been around long enough to know that these threads are usually followed up months later with "my receiver went into protect mode" or " What happened to the high's on my speakers " or " Looking for a replacement tweeter ". To each his own though, one makes their own decisions, we just hand out advice is all.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited February 2012
    tonyb, I did run the AVR 4800 in the past 10 years with five 4 ohm speakers setup for home theater. I usually have the volume at -15 for movies which is probably 90-95 db level without any problem with the receiver or speakers. Thanks for your advice though.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited February 2012
    brianle wrote: »
    tonyb, I did run the AVR 4800 in the past 10 years with five 4 ohm speakers setup for home theater. I usually have the volume at -15 for movies which is probably 90-95 db level without any problem with the receiver or speakers. Thanks for your advice though.

    Push it past 100db...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pyrocyborg
    pyrocyborg Posts: 524
    edited February 2012
    Going past 90 dB can cause hearing impairment, you irresponsible persons :lol:!

    Too bad it didn't sound great with your other room/amp, brianle... Your ears are the judge, and you're probably right that maybe those LSi9 don't do well with your room acoustics. I knew those speakers were picky with gear, but I don't think placement is an issue with your other room as they clearly have a lot of space behind them.

    Well then, try to be carefull when you drive those speakers from your receiver, and I hope you'll enjoy them! Otherwise, you can always sell them back to someone else without losing a lot of money.
    Speakers: Polk Audio LSiM 705, LSiM 703, LSiM 704c
    Receiver: Denon X3500H
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited February 2012
    Thanks pyrocyborg.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited February 2012
    After reading many threads on this forum, I'm seriously considering swapping out the LSi9 for the LSi7. The bass is still dominating in my current room especially when listing to 2 channel music. I'm using this system 70% for movies and 30% for music. What do you guys think?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pyrocyborg
    pyrocyborg Posts: 524
    edited February 2012
    Well, it depends on your room size. My NAD326 (entry-level integrated amp) drives my LSi7 without breaking a sweat to more than comfortable volume level in a 12'' per 30'' room [open area: living room and dinning room]. Sure, my critical listening area in that particular room is around 12x15, so it makes everything easier than if I was filling the entire room, but there is more loss than if it was in a smaller confined room...

    So, I could tell you that yeah, they're easier to drive than a pair of LSi9. If you like to listen to your speakers at very high level, LSi7 might not make the cut as they tend to compress when they get near 100 dB... however, who do hell critically listen at their speakers at 100 dB?

    On the other hand, they're not what I would call bass heavy. They have tight/accurate bass, but not as powerful as a pair of large bookshelf could do. I might add a sub in a distant future. As bass/mid-bass emphasis is currently your problem, it might be a good idea, but I wouldn't tell you to swap them without thinking, as I didn't test both models.

    I really like my LSi7, even if my room isn't optimal. I guess that in a dedicated, acoustically treated listening area, they must sound quite great for such small speakers. Good thing is, your receiver will probably drive them easily, well, easier than a pair of LSi9
    Speakers: Polk Audio LSiM 705, LSiM 703, LSiM 704c
    Receiver: Denon X3500H
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited February 2012
    My room is small/average size as well. The LSi7 is $375 on Polk's ebay store right now.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pyrocyborg
    pyrocyborg Posts: 524
    edited February 2012
    Should do great then! As I said, I really like my LSi7, but they are not, by any means, the best speaker ever. I consider them a great bargain at these closeout prices, but if you want my opinion, they do not worth the asked 800$ MSRP. You probably know better than me that when you step in that 800+ territory, there is a lot of worthy options. But yeah, to my ears, they're the best newer Polk except most probably the LSiM series... and they're good looking too.

    By the way, what would you do with your LSi9? Craiglist? :sad:

    Anyways, if you want, you should try Acoustic Sound Design or Sound Distributors with the coupon code TV15:

    http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1623&sc=72

    361.25$, brand new so there is a 5 years warranty (and yeah, they are an Authorized Online Dealer).

    IMO, it's better than paying more for a refurbished with 2 years warranty... even if I know Polk's refurbished are great!

    I got my pair from them, they shipped same day and offered me a discount I couldn't refuse (15% off and free shipping to Canada... other Canucks didn't have that chance, they were offered the free shipping but without the 15% off). They even lowered the duties values so UPS wouldn't charge me a lot.
    Speakers: Polk Audio LSiM 705, LSiM 703, LSiM 704c
    Receiver: Denon X3500H
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited February 2012
    Unless the 4-ohm external power amp that everyone is clamoring for is EQ corrected for that hump, it isn't going to help. He doesn't want it louder and isn't complaining about the sound in general terms.

    I think speaker placement is the way to go if you want to calm down that excessive midbass. Either that or EQ. But if moving the speakers out into the room isn't going to work, I think you're correct in perhaps going to the LSi7. I haven't heard the 7, but I have heard the 9 and it does have a "robust" midbass. You can also just "get used to it."

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2012
    Disregard, wrong thread.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    ....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mikejl46
    mikejl46 Posts: 63
    edited February 2012
    I used an equalizer and sub to flatten things out.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?130101-Lsi9-s-and-Adire-Rava-sub
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    edited February 2012
    Thanks everyone. Looks like I'm gonna stick with the LSi9 for now and play around with the speaker placement and/or bass EQ from the receiver for now.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited February 2012
    Anybody who didn't suggest placement first...I'd love to see your placement...yikes. It so obvious....better gear can't fix placement issues. In fact better gear exposes placement issues further. The LSi's are not that hard to drive...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • hertz9753
    hertz9753 Posts: 310
    edited February 2012
    It took 3 months and about 350 hours to put a smile on my face with my LSi9's.
    AVR-Onkyo TX-NR808
    Front amp-Adcom GFA 555>Polk Audio LSi9's(Vr3 Castle Mods)
    Center amp-Adcom GFA 5400>Polk Audio LSi9 bi-wired(Vr3 Castle Mod)
    Surrounds-Polk Audio F/X500's<Onkyo TX-NR808
    Sub-Velodyne SPL-1000R
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,011
    edited February 2012
    LuSh wrote: »
    . The LSi's are not that hard to drive...

    Based on what ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,217
    edited March 2012
    LuSh wrote: »
    The LSi's are not that hard to drive...

    Please elaborate, that hasn't been my experience.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,134
    edited March 2012
    One thing that will tame the bass as stated before in this thread is to get them out into the room. That should help other things as well.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited March 2012
    LuSh wrote: »
    Anybody who didn't suggest placement first...I'd love to see your placement...yikes. ...


    Nobody listens to Zathras....:wink:

    zathras.jpg

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited March 2012
    Based on my experience...with proper placement 2-3 feet fom the back wall I had 9's run off a modest 50 watt and 80 watt integrated amplifier. totems and Dynaudio are a much tougher load...I suspect if the Denon was bi-amped and the speakers pulled out further then the current 1ft the OP would be happy with this second system.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,217
    edited March 2012
    Bi-amping (if you can call it that) from a receiver has no effect. Placement needs to be done properly and they need to be farther out in the room than most similar bookies. Quality power not nec quantity is what's called for and a receiver will not give the quality necessary in most cases.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited March 2012
    Sensitivity wise they appear easy enough to drive but that low impedance at low frequencies resulting from the paralleled woofers would benifit from a capable amplifier.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pyrocyborg
    pyrocyborg Posts: 524
    edited March 2012
    As LuSh said, is it possible to see a picture of your actual placement and room layout? Maybe we could help if there is something that can be optimized!
    Speakers: Polk Audio LSiM 705, LSiM 703, LSiM 704c
    Receiver: Denon X3500H
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,011
    edited March 2012
    LuSh wrote: »
    Based on my experience...with proper placement 2-3 feet fom the back wall I had 9's run off a modest 50 watt and 80 watt integrated amplifier. totems and Dynaudio are a much tougher load...I suspect if the Denon was bi-amped and the speakers pulled out further then the current 1ft the OP would be happy with this second system.

    An integrated amp is a different apple than a receiver. How a speaker that dips into the 2 ohm area is considered easy to drive, you'd have to explain that one to me.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited March 2012
    heiney9 - Have you bi-amped a HT receiver before? If so which models? If not then I'm not interested.

    TonyB = You make it sound as if LSi's hang around 2-4ohms all day....they don't. A top of the range receiver bi-amped (easing the load on individual output transistors) should be enough for a second system. How anybody could offer advice of upgrading an amplifier instead of speaker/room interaction - I don't wanna sound like a jerk but really he said 1 ft from the back wall...that will muddy things up quickly. I suspect a Krell KSA series would make an LSi sound muddy if the speaker is simply a foot away from the wall. A Krell 400xi did, I know because I ran it on LSi's.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter