Anybody find the quality of Adele - 21 atrocious?

steveinaz

We need an "Occupy the studio" movement. Grab your signs men. I think we should start in Cali---they'll feed us for free!

CoolJazz

Here is the full song waveform of Adele, Set Fire To The Rain...

This is pretty typical of today's music to show no dynamics after the intro! And it's pretty much any type of popular music coming out! Interestingly, Hip Hop may have more dynamics in some cases than pop or country! On this Adele song, it didn't take me a minute at all to find clipped waveforms.

That's zoomed way in, so only the peak in the center shows a clip.

If you go back in time, you can see very easily that music was treated VERY differently! Here is Lionel Richie from 1984 with Stuck On You...

And then Linda Ronstadt from 1974 with Silver Threads and Golden Needles...

Pretty easy to the emphasis of what they want today is very different than in the past!

CJ

steveinaz

Wow, just as I suspected; Adele is clipped all to hell. No wonder it sounds awful. What program is that? Notice the total lack of delineation, that's why the music sounds so frickin "hashy" and muddled.

If I'm reading that right, it looks like the MAXIMUM dynamic range of that song is 15dB! and that is toward the beginning (look at 26 seconds in), so it may not be up to full volume yet. And years ago we complained of vinyls' "meager" 60-70dB limit?

...and the industry wonders why no one buys CD's anymore?

polkfarmboy

Great post cooljazz

Serendipity

The Adele recording looks like constant noise compared to the Lionel Richie track.

I would think something's broken to produce a waveform like that.

steveinaz

No wonder there's been a big resurgence of vinyl for the last 15 years...

polkfarmboy

steveinaz wrote: »

No wonder there's been a big resurgence of vinyl for the last 15 years...

I think I may start going this route myself after hearing about recordings like these the past couple of years

EndersShadow

Vinyl may be re-surging, but if the CD looks like that, how would the vinyl version be any different?

tonyb

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I think I may start going this route myself after hearing about recordings like these the past couple of years

Amen....the recording industry just can't help shooting themselves in the foot while chasing that bottom line. A quality recording has long moved down the list of priorities.

steveinaz

EndersShadow wrote: »

Vinyl may be re-surging, but if the CD looks like that, how would the vinyl version be any different?

The way I understand it is that you can do "brickwall limiting" in the digtal realm, but not in analog.

CoolJazz

steveinaz wrote: »

The way I understand it is that you can do "brickwall limiting" in the digtal realm, but not in analog.

Someone may have said that but doesn't seem right to me. True analog brickwall limiting is as simple as a diode set on top of a pot to give you the ability to adjust it's voltage threshold. It will sharply clip any and everything at the threshold voltage. Sounds like **** of course.

I'd suspect the more correct part to today's stuff being so crunched is the fact that all kinds of digital effects boxes and processors are available so cheap. So guys have them and play with them all the time as they learn their craft. It becomes part of their "sound". So then when the go into a studio they expect it as part of how they sound.

Then after that expectation, the studios have gotten where they don't want somebody else's release to be louder than them, so they push more processing on the material to raise their level too.

Personally, I think the way it used to be done was to capture the sound and listen to it. Mic placement and the studio environment was super critical. Now they "assemble" the recording a musician at a time, not at all in real time. The whole rack of processing is used on each and every track to achieve the sound wanted on it and then as it's mixed down on a whole a final "sweetening" is applied. Processing is viewed as "improving" sound and not as a degrading. The desire to make the guitar player sound "pop" out of the mix is the guitarist desire. The drummer wants to make sure his beat is there. The vocalist has to have his lines ride right over the top off all. But wait, the bassist wants to make sure the low end is right there evenly... etc...etc....

The screenshot's are from Adobe Audition.

CJ

CoolJazz

OK...some more screenshots of songs you might be familiar with...or maybe don't want to be!

Here is Boom Boom Pow from the Blacked Eyed Peas, released in 2009.

And to show that country isn't much different...Mine from Taylor Swift in 2010.

And now one that's really, really, really loud! Sorry For Party Rocking, LMFAO which is a current release...

Wow...Just wow! If you haven't already bought it :eek: maybe it's on Youtube or somewhere if you need real bad to hear how it sounds.

CJ

polkatese

Jeezz.

What happened to people like Michael Bishop?

http://www.recording.pro/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39&Itemid=111

markmarc

CoolJazz, glad I saw your efforts as I was about to pull out "21" and fire up Audacity myself.

Drenis

What a neat program. There are some songs, albums that I would love to see how they measure up. I'm familiar with a few of the songs listed. I agree some of it's so loud during playback.

treitz3

Hello, Serendipity. Here's a review I posted elsewhere on this very album. I apologize for being late to the party but there has been some chatter recently about Adele's 21 album being an excellent recording. I beg to differ. Here's my non-professional review...

I had some time to listen to up to song 5. I had to turn it off after that and put in something that sounded a bit more pleasing to these ears. I dig her music but it sounds better in the car with a boatload of ambient noise and I'll reserve listening to it again for just that. Listening to it in the car. Anyhoo, at a volume level of about 8:30 [which was about all I could stand] on the dial, I gave her CD another whirl so that I could offer my observations to you. Forgive my way of typing this out. I just started writing things down on a piece of paper and whatever hit my fancy to write down is how it's gonna be offered in this observation.

First off, it's mixed hot. There are little to no dynamics in the recording whatsoever. The bass riffs hit too hard with too much unnatural reverb or butchering, maybe both. The background singers sound fake at times. There is very little detail and things just sound congested. Nothing was really palpable. Horrible imaging when compared to a well recorded album. Impact?.....I don't think they know the definition or that it even exists. I can detect a slight noise during the recording and the noise floor on certain instruments and singers is high. The piano sounds like arse and is not at all accurate with no detail or naturalness to it at all, whether it is played by itself our during a busy passage.

In general, there is very little stereo separation and none of the voices sound natural. In fact, nothing really sounds real and it sounds as if it is restricted. There are no microdynamics, subtleties or inner detail, let alone texture to most everything in the recording. There is an unnatural balance of frequencies and absolutely no definition in the drums. At times, I wonder if they actually used a drum or if they did, what the hell was wrong with them? No natural rolloff of many instruments and speaking of the instruments, at times they are in front of Adele. I don't understand why she's so far back sometimes. The bass guitar has no texture whatsoever, you hear the notes [not very clear] but that's about all you get. One last thing. It's like there is no crescendo throughout the first 5 songs. Everything seems to be on or at the same level. Overall, a very bad recording.

Simply comparing it to the Sarah McGlachlin CD I was listening too last night, Adele's recording is a joke. Sarah's piano was very fluid, natural, had a seemingly infinite amount of subtleties, nuances, texture, rolloff and you could even hear when the pedal was lifted up and down...and this happened whether or not the piano was the only thing playing or the passage was a busy one.

Interesting read here, lots of credit went into the recording and mixing. "Dynamics", according to Tom Elmhirst, was the main issue with the song "Rolling in the Deep". Maybe Tom Elmhirst should get Burmester's CD and listen to Hugh Masekela's "Stimela" and find out what dynamics really are.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep1...es/it-0911.htm

CoolJazz, nail, hammer, head...that kind of thing.

Tom

Inspector 24

Didn't read the whole thread but I'll jump on the bandwagon of 'HOLY CRAP YOU LISTEN AT 0db!?'

Comfortable for me and my setup is no more than -15, usually around -17 and I can listen forever.

And I too found the sound quality of 21 to be atrocious. Can Not Stand It.

sucks2beme

There are so many cd's I can hardly listen to due to this constant poor recording.
The Raising Sand cd is also horridly done. Thanks recording industry.

Serendipity

Inspector 24 wrote: »

Didn't read the whole thread but I'll jump on the bandwagon of 'HOLY CRAP YOU LISTEN AT 0db!?'

Comfortable for me and my setup is no more than -15, usually around -17 and I can listen forever.

And I too found the sound quality of 21 to be atrocious. Can Not Stand It.

If you read the thread, you would see that 0dB on classical recordings is around 75dB SPL on the Radio Shack SPL meter.

Now 0dB on a modern recording, such as Adele - 21 is in the 100 dB range - literally it's 20+ dB louder than my classical recordings. I cannot stand this.

Serendipity

Inspector 24 wrote: »

Comfortable for me and my setup is no more than -15, usually around -17 and I can listen forever..

-15 on what? If it were the Adele recording, it would be very loud.

But with a quiet recording, 0 to +4 is possible (see video). Especially classical recordings which can vary between passages.

Toolfan66

Just get the Live BluRay it's a thousand times better..

Serendipity

Honestly, I've lost interest in this type of music because it's all much of the same -- loud, harsh, fatiguing, pumped up to get your attention.

I'm going in a different direction with both my rig and music collection because I prefer a warmer, quieter sound. Stay tuned.

sucks2beme

I was thinking about trading my tube set up for a Krell integrated.
I dropped the Soundstream DA-1 into the system and played Audel's 21.
HORRID. Back in the vt-60 went. Not great, but now listenable.
No trading in my future.

Serendipity

Which is exactly why my new system is going to be warm sounding, completely listenable for all genres of music. I've already bought a few pieces, now waiting for them to arrive.

treitz3

Speaking of Adele....

British soul singer Adele reached a different kind of milestone: her 2011 album, "21″ (XL/Columbia), which earned her several Grammy Awards, passed 10 million in sales less than two years after its release, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

It really is amazing just how powerful this young lady is with her singing 'cause it damn sure ain't the recording that made this such a success. I would go so far as to say that it's one of the top one hundred worst recordings ever produced.

Tom

capecodder

Just noticed this thread and glad my own observations were accurate. Didn't really know Adele until I saw her last year performing at the grammys. I was blown away by her performance. Went out and got the vinyl (rarely buy cds anymore) cleaned it up out of the box and put it on the system. Sounded OK to start but when the first song really started to crank so did my volume and thats when I stepped back and said " this recording sucks". Was tempted to buy another just to compare but looks like that won't do the trick. Damn shame because this is a great album.

treitz3

Hello, capecodder. If you want a "decent" recording of her, the best I have ran across so far is the Adele Live at the Royal Albert Hall on Blu-ray. While it's still nothing to write home to Mom about, it's a far cry from the recording disaster of 21.

Tom

Msabot1

Good music....overproduced to the max!

Daffypuck

Im dumb. Can someone help me become undumb please? Wait, is that even a word? Anyways, great thread if I was privy to what it all meant. Thats why Im here though, to learn. Can someone direct me to a good read on dB readings and the such? Ive always wondered why my volume control starts at -xxdB and then zeros out. Thanks.

treitz3

What in the hell?