My controversial post of the year...

FTGV

Toolfan66

I have a nice DAC and have music ripped to my putter and I was into it for a few and I still like to fiddle with it now and then but I prefer my SACD/CDP's and Turntable when I have the time to sit and listen for a couple of hours. I do like having a play list when we are just messing around the house..

Everyone has there toys and what they want to play with for me I like having the ability to play with all three, if I had the space I would invest in a nice reel 2 reel and have some killer play lists to play. I like it old school, I'm not saying the new way of doing things suck because it don't if done right just like everything else in this hobby. I think it's great we have a choice to play it how we want to..

Erik Tracy

tonyb wrote: »

I find that to be total nonsense. Took me longer, alot longer, to set up my HT receiver than my Sonos.

BlueFox wrote: »

Regarding the convenience factor of a music server versus a CD player, that is an irrelevant item. While a music server does provide convenience in terms of not having to change a disc, I seriously doubt anybody abandons a CD player for that reason alone.

The fact is convenience is simply a side-effect of using a music server. It is the same side-effect that a CD player has over a record player. With a CD player, you no longer have to turn over an album, plus you get instant access to any track, and you can put it on random, repeat play. If convenience is so bad then get rid of your CD players, and go back to the "good old days" of turntables.

To me, a major factor of a music server is you can create playlists of CDs, and of individual tracks. This gives the user more power and control over their music, and that is a good thing. Why some think that is bad is baffling.

In regard to the sound quality of a music server file, some reviewers comment that hard drive access of a file and then played through the digital input of a high-end CDP sounds better than the optical/mechanical access from the CD drive. Others, say there is no difference. I have yet to read a single review that says it sounds worse.

As a side-note, in the current issue of Rolling Stone, there is yet one more article on the death of CDs. A record company executive is giving the CD three more years.

But this is my complaint with HT and Music Servers in general - I practically need to go to training to figure out how to use my AVR, keep up to date on fw updates and procedures so that I don't 'brick' my AVR.

Really? I mean really? Do I have to spend time wankin' about firmware and drivers and async adapters?

If CDs do die and we are all forced to go downloads - ok, I'll drink the koolaid and by some sort of server 'appliance' - but it will have to be absolutely a no effort design - like a CDP - you hook it up and press play.

tonyb

Cd's aren't going anywhere. It may become more of a niche market, like vinyl, but it will be around for along time yet. If you didn't have cd's to burn from, that means you'd have to buy all your music online.....and if that day ever came about, you'd see prices go north real quick.

Consumers have choices today, vinyl, cd's, tape, computer files, all competeing and keeping prices low. Start knocking out competition and you'll pay more so don't be so gun ho about the death of the cd.

tonyb

Erik Tracy wrote: »

But this is my complaint with HT and Music Servers in general - I practically need to go to training to figure out how to use my AVR, keep up to date on fw updates and procedures so that I don't 'brick' my AVR.

Really? I mean really? Do I have to spend time wankin' about firmware and drivers and async adapters?

If CDs do die and we are all forced to go downloads - ok, I'll drink the koolaid and by some sort of server 'appliance' - but it will have to be absolutely a no effort design - like a CDP - you hook it up and press play.

Well, thats basically how easy a Sonos player is chief, you don't monkey around with anything. The longest process is burning your CD's, even then, you can just pay 10 bucks a month for Rhapsody and have 15 million songs at your finger tips.

Toolfan66

face wrote: »

lol!!

Erik Tracy

tonyb wrote: »

Well, thats basically how easy a Sonos player is chief, you don't monkey around with anything. The longest process is burning your CD's, even then, you can just pay 10 bucks a month for Rhapsody and have 15 million songs at your finger tips.

Thanks for the tip squire - but I'd prefer not to be hostage to my ISP, Crime Warner...ah...I mean Time Warner for access to the music I enjoy....hard media that I own and no recurring subscription fees for me...

SDA1C

heiney9 wrote: »

Sorry Trey, I am not looking for a fight, not even in the remotest sense. Just trying to get people to clarify because there have been some very wide, sweeping general comments made which IMO, are unfounded. So I'm just trying to get a better understanding where these comments are coming from.

I mean even the title of this thread is inviting controversy a little bit.

I am out, because obviously I'm a small meanie who beats up on everyone. Others can have their say, but I'm not allowed to have a discussion.

H9

Fixed it for ya LOL (you sure post a lot for someone that is out)

Seriously ... I use the PS3 for streaming internet radio. I am sure there are better options and as far as accessibility. The remote sort of sucks but aside from that it sounds great and isn't another piece to try to integrate. I looked at the SQB but to be honest I haven't found a huge advantage over my PC.

I also don't think comparing a good CDP to a server extention a fair bit but I might have missed the part of the thread that discussed that already.

I completely agree to the Immaturity of the sources and expect them to really catch up in the near future which might at that time change my opinion but as it is for now I don't see it being worth an extra piece in the chain for the minimal benefit of touch screen.

LuSh

How is streaming catching up? How has it not surpassed CDP's? Why has Linn ceased making a CD player (a company that embraces vinyl no less) how is it that the CEO of Simaudio admitted a step up in performance streaming a MAC into their top of the line CDP'S in AIFF rather then using there own transport nearly 4 yrs ago? Why is it every audio show had vinyl and MacBooks instead of CDP's?

You can disregard the users on this forum (which is fair) but I'd really suggest people try with a concerted effort in testing before making claims that transports are better when most of the professional industry has moved on. It's a hassle for some...I get it but there should be no debate in performance. That was put to rest years ago. I hope this post doesn't come off as some sort of stand off...it frustrating when I know what kind of performance one can yield. A case example is when a friend tells me CD is 10000 times better then vinyl and that records offer the worse possible sound quality. Ignorance is bliss.

steveinaz

Hey, it's no sweat off my back. I'm just saying that there are other options, and if your DAC is up to the task.....

Like I said, if you want to split hairs---consider your final analog stage.

F1nut

heiney9 wrote: »

Your nick name must be Flash, because it takes a whole lot more than 60 seconds where I come from, power down the cd, open the drawer, put the disc in the jewel case, replace it from where it came, pull another disc out of the cabinet, open the jewel case, place disc in tray, wait atleast 30-45 sec for it to spin up. Now you are ready, more like 2 minutes or more per disc.

I made a guess about the time, but after reading your post I timed it at a normal pace. Player stops, press open on the remote, get up to take the disc out, put the disc in the case, put it back in the drawer, grab a new SACD from the drawer, take it out of the case, put it in the tray, press play and the music is playing in.........50 seconds flat!

What player did you have that took 30-45 seconds to spin up!?!

I get it, you don't care for the convenience, that's cool, don't get one. But don't come back and say a stand alone cdp always sounds better, because that's just not entirely true.

My experience on my rig verses what else I've heard says it does.

P.s. Hey Jess, you should probably give up your remotes and that electric garage door opener too. Don't want you to become fat and lazy like the rest of us. I mean really how hard is it to get up to change songs or adjust the volume or change the channel. And an electric garage door opener, who would want that when you can get out of your car and just pull the door up and down.

The problem with your arguement, Brock, is that I'm not the one always yaking on and on and on about convenience. When voice command comes around are you going to jump on it because it's 5 seconds faster than you can scroll?

steveinaz

....but Brock is old....and slow.....LOL

steveinaz

[Pauly Shore voice] Look here crusters, stop taxin my gig so hardcore, digital is like in the now, bro...diggit?[/Pauly Shore]

dkg999

SBT $249
Wellborne PSU $200
PS Audio DLIII DAC $599
QNAP TS-459 Pro NAS with 8TB RAID storage - $1200

This discussion - priceless!

SCompRacer

In the meantime, I slapped this fully discrete balanced active I/V line stage together for my DAC.:cheesygrin:

heiney9

Erik Tracy wrote: »

You can keep the 'puter server thang - ain't for me and too much time - better things to do.

Enjoy the music.

I can completely respect your choice.

heiney9

FTGV wrote: »

LOL - Fred, I haven't seen that one before. :cheesygrin:

heiney9

tonyb wrote: »

Well, thats basically how easy a Sonos player is chief, you don't monkey around with anything. The longest process is burning your CD's, even then, you can just pay 10 bucks a month for Rhapsody and have 15 million songs at your finger tips.

Exactly, many are confusing using the computer as the source vs. the SQB. Using youe computer as the source (and not using the SQB as the interphase) is when it becomes a little more work initially to set-up. Though after that, all this mysterious tweaking you speak of is non-exisitent.

heiney9

F1nut wrote: »

I made a guess about the time, but after reading your post I timed it at a normal pace. Player stops, press open on the remote, get up to take the disc out, put the disc in the case, put it back in the drawer, grab a new SACD from the drawer, take it out of the case, put it in the tray, press play and the music is playing in.........50 seconds flat!

What player did you have that took 30-45 seconds to spin up!?!





My experience on my rig verses what else I've heard says it does.



The problem with your arguement, Brock, is that I'm not the one always yaking on and on and on about convenience. When voice command comes around are you going to jump on it because it's 5 seconds faster than you can scroll?

Jesse, I am just busting your balls a little bit. My cd's happen to be in a cabinet in another room for esthetic purposes as well a space. My point is as Steve succinctly made, the convenience is secondary to the sound. If the sound wasn't up to snuff all the convenience in the world wouldn't matter to me. I'd still get up and shlep over the player and play single cd's. I actually do that now for stuff I haven't ripped.

Actually I voice text on my phone whenever I can, meaning when I don't have a long reply. So yes, I do use a lot of convenience's because they are there. Would I go out specifically and buy a new phone JUST to use the voice option, no I wouldn't. Same for the SQB, did I buy it for convenience? Sure, if it was possible to have that convenience only if the sound wasn't compromised.

H9

SDA1C

LuSh wrote: »

How is streaming catching up? How has it not surpassed CDP's? Why has Linn ceased making a CD player (a company that embraces vinyl no less) how is it that the CEO of Simaudio admitted a step up in performance streaming a MAC into their top of the line CDP'S in AIFF rather then using there own transport nearly 4 yrs ago? Why is it every audio show had vinyl and MacBooks instead of CDP's?

You can disregard the users on this forum (which is fair) but I'd really suggest people try with a concerted effort in testing before making claims that transports are better when most of the professional industry has moved on. It's a hassle for some...I get it but there should be no debate in performance. That was put to rest years ago. I hope this post doesn't come off as some sort of stand off...it frustrating when I know what kind of performance one can yield. A case example is when a friend tells me CD is 10000 times better then vinyl and that records offer the worse possible sound quality. Ignorance is bliss.

My intention of labeling streaming immature is just that there are so many different formats. If streaming was tuned in properly there would only be one format. A cd is a cd, A record is a record and a tape is a tape but a download file is 1 of about 10 different formats. As streaming becomes more refined the lessor of the formats will either fade away or become fodder for piracy. just my .02 and I certainly don't speak for others.

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

....but Brock is old....and slow.....LOL

Not as old as you..................old man. :cheesygrin:

gimpod

Personally I don't care if the SQB is or isn't better than my CDP that's not why I got one, I got one for only one reason to replace my FM turner because FM reception here sucks big time. I just use it for casual listening so it beats the crap out of FM.

LuSh

SDA1C - I can completely see where you're coming from. Good point.

tonyb

Well, at least Trey is good 'till 2013 now. If he was thinking ahead, he would have waited for December to post this.

VR3

Yeah - I am keeping some super flame threads for 2013... but the world will end before then, no biggie!

Systems

Word is really starting to spread about this thread.:cheesygrin:

Attachment not found.

tonyb

Yeah Paul.....this thread was shown on some European sites......Iran cut their oil supply pronto after reading it.

Joe08867

I just use an Ipod. It sounds better than any CDP or SQB.

FTGV

Joe08867 wrote: »

I just use an Ipod. It sounds better than any CDP or SQB.

Apparently it can sound quite good playing lossless files with one of these http://www.wadia.com/products/transports/170i/ and a good outboard DAC.

dkg999

After last weeks experiments, if you aren't using a wired ethernet connection running at high speed to connect your SBT, you are not there yet. There were some very noticeable improvements when using hi-rez and standard redbook CD transfers. Guitar and piano recordings are what we were using, and the last Blue Coast Records CD. I replicated the improvement on a friend's system here in IA. He spent a couple of hours arguing that it had to be something else, but in the end it seems to come down to data deliver to the SBT. Interestingly enough, his Sonos system in the main part of the house doesn't seem to be impacted the same way.