Planning out my 2 channel system: Step 1 - Help me find a pre

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

I notice absolutely no difference, nor have I had a single issue using wireless. Not to mention it's a helluva lot more convenient, but either way don't use the soundcard for SQB hook-up.

H9

I agree if you have a house but in an apartment complex there are lots of competing signals, you have EMI from the wires in the wall, etc. I have just had lots of bad luck with dropping signal. In addition in that same room would be the computer, a DVR box, etc so I will have to have a switch located there regardless (since the router itself will be downstairs in my HT setup), so its just going to be one more cord to the mix.

I am also going to assume you would suggest upgrading the powersupply in the Squeezebox as you did?

heiney9

I lived in an apartment for awhile with an earlier SQB and ran all kinds of electronics never an issue. But if you don't mind the extra cable, then do it.

If you can swing the upgraded power supply, it's definitely worth it. It can be added later if it's not in the budget.

H9

EndersShadow

Also last question here.

Assuming I want to incorporate 1 sub into the mix. If the pre only has 1 set of pre-outs AND my sub has line level in's, I could just run a set of RCA's from the pre to the sub line level in, set the crossover manually on the sub, and then run another set of RCA's from the line level out to the amp I am using for the speakers, correct?

heiney9

That I don't know because I don't run a sub, nor have I ever so I am not familiar with various hook up methods. Hopefully someone else can comment.

H9

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

That I don't know because I don't run a sub, nor have I ever so I am not familiar with various hook up methods. Hopefully someone else can comment.

Its true, I just verified it using one of the manual for a Polk sub with those inputs.

EndersShadow

So now that I have a clear understanding of what I need, I would love any additional suggestions for a pre-amp meeting the following criteria:

1. Volume control w/ remote
2. 2 sets of RCA inputs (for use with Squeezebox Touch and/or CD player), and a phono input
3. Price range 200 - 400 (prefer closer to 200 than 400 :smile)

Drenis

You two should just pick up a phone.

ES - Have you considered using the hi-level inputs of a sub amp? I know thats a dangerous thing to bring up here but it allows you to integrate a sub with a Pre that may not have the multiple outputs you want. Just food for thought...

EndersShadow

Drenis wrote: »

You two should just pick up a phone.

ES - Have you considered using the hi-level inputs of a sub amp? I know thats a dangerous thing to bring up here but it allows you to integrate a sub with a Pre that may not have the multiple outputs you want. Just food for thought...

That was what I was talking about in post 34 in this thread.

If your meaning connect the sub via RCA's and then the speakers via speaker wire to the speaker connections on the sub that wont work as I will be using speaker that would blow the sub amp.

Drenis

That's my bad then... when i got to page 2 and saw all the back and forth, I just decided to stop reading and reply.

Carry on!

EndersShadow

EndersShadow wrote: »

So now that I have a clear understanding of what I need, I would love any additional suggestions for a pre-amp meeting the following criteria:

1. Volume control w/ remote
2. 2 sets of RCA inputs (for use with Squeezebox Touch and/or CD player), and a phono input
3. Price range 200 - 400 (prefer closer to 200 than 400 :smile)

Any other suggestions?

gdb

At the risk of angering you know who...... IIRC,Carver produced a speaker level input to preamp level, output device. Probably similar to what's incorporated into the subwoofer's speaker level inputs, so it might not be any better, but, it might be.

EndersShadow

gdb wrote: »

At the risk of angering you know who...... IIRC,Carver produced a speaker level input to preamp level, output device. Probably similar to what's incorporated into the subwoofer's speaker level inputs, so it might not be any better, but, it might be.

Interesting, that is something to look into. I think for right now I will just focus on a Good pre meeting the criteria above. Heck I could always just keep the HK in between the pre and amp so I could use its sub pre-outs. I think however thats too many links in the chain for me . I may not ever incorporate a sub into my 2 channel setup with some of the speakers I want to get/test, I was just hoping to have that flexibility built in.

Like I said my first step is getting a pre (or Squeezebox Touch), then a good amp, then start rotating speakers in and out, but thats all in due time.

mrbiron

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1327684654&/NAD-C-160-ss-preamp

I may be way off...
Volume Control
2+ Sets of RCA Ins
Phono MM/MC
2 Sets of Pre-outs
Remote
Well within budget.....

Syndil

Lots of good suggestions here, but one I haven't seen mentioned yet is to go with a decent, used HT preamp. Sure you'll only need 2 channels, but it may be the way to go considering your needs and your budget. For example, my Outlaw 990 has a phono input with a grounding post, two RCA subwoofer outputs, a multitude of digital inputs, in addition to a set of balanced outputs (only 1 balanced sub output). To my ears it's one of the best sounding preamps I have had, HT or otherwise, and it can be purchased used for right around $300 - $400, or you can buy a B-stock unit from Outlaw for $400. I scored mine from Audiogon for $360 shipped and it was in like-new condition. Note that the 990 is a rather large unit, if that matters to you.

EndersShadow

Syndil wrote: »

Lots of good suggestions here, but one I haven't seen mentioned yet is to go with a decent, used HT preamp. Sure you'll only need 2 channels, but it may be the way to go considering your needs and your budget. For example, my Outlaw 990 has a phono input with a grounding post, two RCA subwoofer outputs, a multitude of digital inputs, in addition to a set of balanced outputs (only 1 balanced sub output). To my ears it's one of the best sounding preamps I have had, HT or otherwise, and it can be purchased used for right around $300 - $400, or you can buy a B-stock unit from Outlaw for $400. I scored mine from Audiogon for $360 shipped and it was in like-new condition. Note that the 990 is a rather large unit, if that matters to you.

Size isnt really an issue, I am more concerned with overall quality from source to speaker as "Everything Matters". I am familiar with the unit you are refering to and it is a viable option, I had simly forgotten it was still out there.

EndersShadow

mrbiron wrote: »

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1327684654&/NAD-C-160-ss-preamp

I may be way off...
Volume Control
2+ Sets of RCA Ins
Phono MM/MC
2 Sets of Pre-outs
Remote
Well within budget.....

Yeah I saw that too, but dont have cash for this purchase yet, just doing research.

I also am not sure its got 2 sets of pre-outs. It lists pre-out 2 as (variable) and its got a higher impedance than pre-out 1. I am also not sure if they both work at the same time or not.

mrbiron

Oh the fun research part that drives ones self mad with info!! I was there a little while ago and it wasn't pretty.
Fortunately, the cheap TT i have has an internal phono section therefore i didn't have to worry about it. If you only have the 1 record, might i suggest skipping this part all together or at least for the time being?

Unless you are gearing up for the vinyl train!! Choo CHooooooOOOoOOOoOOooOO!!!

EndersShadow

mrbiron wrote: »

Unless you are gearing up for the vinyl train!! Choo CHooooooOOOoOOOoOOooOO!!!

Not really. I am much more likely to stay on the all digital front as I invested too much time burning all my CD's into FLAC to back out now. Hence the squeezebox touch as the main source.

EndersShadow

A couple models of B&K HT pre's caught my attention, namely the REF-20 and REF-30 as both look to have 2 sub outs and are well within my price range. Need to do more research :frown:

Time to get my list started for myself:

HT Pre's:
B&K REF-20
B&K REF-30
ROTEL RSP-1066

2 channel pre's:
NAD

heiney9

My train of thought for a 2channel rig was simplicity and sound quality. I didn't suggest any HT pre-amps because generally for 2 channel they are overkill and until you get spendy they simply don't sound as good to me. The Outlaw is an option, but certainly many dedicated 2ch pre's will be more musical. I guess you, and only you, can decide where you want to compromise.

H9

Syndil

heiney9 wrote: »

The Outlaw is an option, but certainly many dedicated 2ch pre's will be more musical.

This assumes that the addition of more channels detracts from the sound quality of the 2 main channels. Take that for what you will.

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

I guess you, and only you, can decide where you want to compromise.

Totally true, and why I am pulling out my hair on thinking about this lol. Simplicity is nice and when this is all said and done I more than likely will be running big full range speakers (Maggie MMG's, Carver Amazings, Carver AL-III's, ect) off of it so I am not sure if I really should be looking to add subs. I think I need to do some more thinking.

H9 I do appreciate your thoughts and in all reality I may just go with a simple 2 channel stereo setup for this anyway and if I want to "rock out" with the bass go to the living room with the subs...

I think the original concept (2 channel pre-amp) is the most logical approach to what I want to accomplish, but just because its logical doesnt mean we always do it

heiney9

It's not just the add'l channels, its the parts selection and topology and the general nature of cost cutting to hit a price point but have it loaded with features. I've heard the Outlaw, nice HT pre............for 2 channel only, it's simply OK, IMO. I'm not trying to call anybody's baby "ugly", it's simply my experience and opinion.

H9

EndersShadow

I just need to get out to more local folks places to hear their gear and ask questions lol......

I am planning on spending Sunday morning at the last local hi-fi store I havent visited ever just to see what they got lying around.

heiney9

If you looking for a stellar sounding 2 channel pre-amp look at a Nakamich CA5. Excellent sound, built like a brick $h^t house, high quality discrete parts and 2 outputs.

H9

Syndil

EndersShadow wrote: »

Totally true, and why I am pulling out my hair on thinking about this lol. Simplicity is nice and when this is all said and done I more than likely will be running big full range speakers (Maggie MMG's, Carver Amazings, Carver AL-III's, ect) off of it so I am not sure if I really should be looking to add subs.

You could also utilize the sub's pre inputs/outputs if the preamp you decide upon does not have sub outputs. When I first got my PSW-300 I was running my CD player's variable outputs to the pre inputs on the sub, then the pre outputs from the sub directly to the amp. Easily one of the best sounding setups I've had.

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

If you looking for a stellar sounding 2 channel pre-amp look at a Nakamich CA5. Excellent sound, built like a brick $h^t house, high quality discrete parts and 2 outputs.

H9

Still got yours and willing to possibly part w it at a later date?

EndersShadow

Syndil wrote: »

You could also utilize the sub's pre inputs/outputs if the preamp you decide upon does not have sub outputs. When I first got my PSW-300 I was running my CD player's variable outputs to the pre inputs on the sub, then the pre outputs from the sub directly to the amp. Easily one of the best sounding setups I've had.

This has been mentioned already and I am aware it's an option. However it requires more cables and I want to get decent cables in this setup but not have to sell a kidney to get em lol

EndersShadow

Nevermind H9 I see you sold it to xj4094dg in 2009.

But now you got my looking on CL and debating a 4 hour one way roadtrip to pick one up in Kalamazoo, MI this weekend lol.....

http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ele/2737601034.html

gdb

Ever try an RCA out multiplier? ( Y cable )