It only took me 2 years to experience SDA for the first time from my 1.2tl's

RickTfromAZ

The first time that I ever had the opportunity to listen to a pair of SDA SRS 1.2tl?s, was in 1991 at Hi-Fi Sales in Mesa, Arizona. I was absolutely in awe with the way that they sounded. I ended up purchasing a pair of RTA15tl?s that day as there no way that I could afford the 1.2tl?s, let alone the amps that it would have taken to drive them. I still have the RTA 15tl?s.
Fast forward 18 years and I finally had the money and the opportunity to purchase a pair of 1.2tl?s locally. I paid more than I originally intended, but I was worried that the opportunity may never present itself again. I got them home, hooked them up and I prepared to be awe-struck once again. I listened to them that entire first evening. At the end of the evening I thought to myself, Hmmm?..My RTA?s sound better than these 1.2tl?s.
I quickly discovered Club Polk and spent weeks reading pouring over the wealth of knowledge that had been compiled and documented there over the course of years by its members. First thing that I did was ditch my faithful Pioneer receiver and acquired a low-mileage Adcom GFA-5802 and a GFP-750. This combination helped quite a bit, but there was still something missing. I started to think that the left speaker sounded a little louder, clearer and had more bass than the right one. I thought that this was possibly me. I have yearly hearing tests at work and I am aware that my hearing is better in my left ear than my right.
Next things that I did was to acquire a set of RDO-198?s, apply Dynamat Extreme to all the drivers and use Mortite when I reinstalled them. The result was the left speaker sounding even more detailed and louder than the right one. I listened up close to the right speaker and was pretty sure that all the drivers were working. Shortly after this, I ended up getting divorced and the 1.2tl?s went into storage for almost a year.
In September of this year, I finally rented a house with a room large enough to handle the 1.2tl?s. Imagine renting a house based solely upon whether or not they would accommodate your speakers. I started in again on my quest to get the sound out these speakers that I knew they were capable of producing. I had stopped reading the Club Polk postings while the speakers were in storage. I was really blown away by all the new tweaks and ingenious inventions that the members had come up with during my hiatus. I quickly ordered a set of Larry?s rings and a set of boards from Tony. Thank you Larry and Tony. I installed Larry?s rings and reassembled everything using Armacell gaskets. I set Tony?s boards aside for the moment and decided that I would upgrade the crossovers after the financial strain of the holidays was past.
Well, Larry?s rings and the Armacell gaskets really woke things up. The left speaker became much more detailed and had much more bass. The right speaker, while improving slightly, was still lifeless compared to the left one. I started listening to the right speaker again up close. The rings and the gaskets had also made such an improvement to the right speaker that it was now so painfully obvious as to what was wrong all along. All 4 SDA drivers were dead. I mean no sound whatsoever. I knew that the drivers were good as I had ohmed the coils out while I had them dismounted from the cabinet. First thing I thought was that I had a crossover problem. I pulled both crossovers intending to check them against one another. Before I did that, I got to thinking that maybe I should ohm-out the wiring harness. I checked the left speaker?s SDA harness and had a solid 3 ohms. I checked the right speaker, and nothing. Open. I promptly pulled all the SDA drivers from the right speaker and did a point-by-point check of the harness. What I found was that not 1, but 2 of the stakon/crimp connections were bad. They were on the green wire side at the second and third drivers down from the top. Makes me wonder if these connections may have been bad since the speaker was new. I may very well be breaking in 4 new, 21-year old MW?s.
I repaired the harness, reassembled everything and sat down for another listen. OMG!!!! The sound stage, the bass, the articulation; it?s now there in spades! I finally have experienced the SDA effect and now fully understand what the other members have been raving about. I am presently going through my entire CD collection. It?s like hearing all these CD?s again for the first time. I?m hooked!
This revelation has now created some insanity. I called up Elliot at Sonicraft and ordered caps and resistors to do the crossovers. I also ordered all the necessary materials from Mouser. Thank you Tony for that wonderful web site; complete with part numbers and links. I have also requested pricing on parts for the AI-1. The inductors will have to wait until after the new year.

gimpod

You think they sound good now just wait till you get the crossovers done and burnt in. (About 300+ hours)

RickTfromAZ

Hi Tony,
Bet it's getting cold up there. In your opinion, would you say that the single greatest upgrade that you have performed, to date, was the crossovers?

Phasewolf

I think the best thing you have done was get a amp that will drive the speakers. Without a amp the rest of the mods would be all most for nothing. Once you build the crossovers those speakers will really shine and with that amp behind them you will have a perigrim on your face.

drumminman

Congrats! Like Gimpod says, do the Xovers, burn 'em in for 200-300 hours and sit down for a listen!

Neskahi

Cool story! And, you write well. May I ask what specifically was wrong with the stakons? Were they just loose?
I ask because I was trouble shooting a set of SDA's more than once and found the stakon's had fallen off.

RickTfromAZ

Neskahi wrote: »

Cool story! And, you write well. May I ask what specifically was wrong with the stakons? Were they just loose?
I ask because I was trouble shooting a set of SDA's more than once and found the stakon's had fallen off.

No, the stakons werent loose. I havent taken them apart yet, but it was if one of the wires hadnt been stripped before being crimped. Now I have to go try to take one apart. You've sparked my curiosity.

gimpod

RickTfromAZ wrote: »

Hi Tony,
Bet it's getting cold up there. In your opinion, would you say that the single greatest upgrade that you have performed, to date, was the crossovers?

I can't really say because when I did my 1C's I did it all at once Tweeters, crossovers, rings, dynamat, etc.. but yes I'd probably say crossovers.

And YES I'm freezing my a** off up here, It's been getting below 30 at night and just below 40 in the day. I really need to move some place warmer.

Fongolio

Congrats on finally getting your babies singing in unison!!Cool story.

RickTfromAZ

Neskahi wrote: »

Cool story! And, you write well. May I ask what specifically was wrong with the stakons? Were they just loose?
I ask because I was trouble shooting a set of SDA's more than once and found the stakon's had fallen off.

I took apart both of the stakons. It was exactly as I suspected. Two unstripped wire ends.

musky1963

I am going to look at mine too(I have the 2.3tl's). I just got them and they just sound average as far as imaging and soundstage. The sda effect doesn't seem to be as everyone claims, at least on mine. Kind of disappointing as of now. I have the set of 3 sl3000's on each and I realize the bottom 2 are supposed to be less loud, but mine seem very weak? Seems like my 2.3's just sound like big speakers. Maybe a bad interface cable?

heiney9

Congrats

Your post is very hard to read the way it's formatted, so I just skimmed it. You do realize the Adcom 5802 is NOT a common ground amp so unless you are running the SDA's with the optional AI-1 interconnect you could be damaging the speakers and/or the amp. IIRC, the negative speaker terminals can be be "strapped" together to create a common ground.

The GFP750 and GFA5802 are excellent choices but you need to get the common ground issue sorted out. If you mentioned it in your post then disregard.

H9

drumminman

musky1963 wrote: »

I am going to look at mine too(I have the 2.3tl's). I just got them and they just sound average as far as imaging and soundstage. The sda effect doesn't seem to be as everyone claims, at least on mine. Kind of disappointing as of now. I have the set of 3 sl3000's on each and I realize the bottom 2 are supposed to be less loud, but mine seem very weak? Seems like my 2.3's just sound like big speakers. Maybe a bad interface cable?

I highly recommend removing the PR's and having a look at the wiring to each MW and tweeter, and Xovers. Lots of stuff can happen over 20+ years, both due to someone modding, vibration from the pressure build up in sealed cabinets and improper manufacturing.

When I first got mine I saw a former owner (not the guy I bought them from) had replaced the binding posts. I thought they sounded pretty good, but not as good as I thought they should sound. When I looked inside several of the wires attached the binding post were so loose they freely moved. Tightening the lock nuts on the BP's helped alot.

I went on to do the mods recommended below which took them to a whole other level. But check the simple stuff first. And feel free to post questions/observations here on the forum. The members are enormously knowledgeable about SDA's and willing to help.

Good luck!

Toolfan66

There are many things that can affect the SDA signal.

The big one in my opinion and most over looked is the room they are in, most people don't have the perfect room but can be tamed with room treatments.

Others are how they are set up, how far from the back wall and side walls, how far they are apart for the room you have, the gear used to powering them, spikes help more then you would think, and believe it or not the music you listen to is big one as well not all music will give you that room filled sound as well as the mastering of all music.

IMO when one jumps on the SDA band wagon one needs to take the time to learn about them with set-up and since you are buying used its a good idea to make sure all wiring is correct this means taking the time to learn how to read schematics.

After you have everything running correctly set-up/gear then indulge yourself in upgrades. Take it from me as I'm a guy who wants it now type and I would have saved myself a lot of money, I have a lot more patience today with this hobby and I am leaps and bounds ahead of where I was.

My system is much more transparent taking the time to learn about them.

Never doubt room treatments, spikes, cables, and isolation products. Even the rack you use can hold you back. All of this can get your lower end gear closer to higher end sound gear. The more transparent you get it the better the soundstage..

YMMV.

Have fun and be patient..

musky1963

I agree on being patient. I used to have RS1B's and Gammas(Infinity). It took some trial and error to get them ideal. The Polks are in the same room area. I have them about 8" from the back wall and about 15" from the side walls. Not an ideal distance, but I have to live with that for now. I did spike them too. I do have a bigscreen on the wall, inbetween them. I just pulled the PR from the left speaker and had a look. All looks factory and nothing seems replaced or altered. I assume the other is the same, but I will check to be sure.

RickTfromAZ

Sorry about the post. It didn't paste very well from Microsoft Word. Lesson learned. I have the 5802 strapped right now. I am in the process of ordering materials to build an AI-1. I really hadn't even considered going the AI-1 route until I read Larry's post about how it improved the sound quality of the 5802 that he was using at the time. Now I just gotta have one.

heiney9 wrote: »

Congrats

Your post is very hard to read the way it's formatted, so I just skimmed it. You do realize the Adcom 5802 is NOT a common ground amp so unless you are running the SDA's with the optional AI-1 interconnect you could be damaging the speakers and/or the amp. IIRC, the negative speaker terminals can be be "strapped" together to create a common ground.

The GFP750 and GFA5802 are excellent choices but you need to get the common ground issue sorted out. If you mentioned it in your post then disregard.

H9

Strong Bad

Great story Rick! Stay single, screw hot chicks and enjoy them monster SDA's!!!

RickTfromAZ

musky1963 wrote: »

I am going to look at mine too(I have the 2.3tl's). I just got them and they just sound average as far as imaging and soundstage. The sda effect doesn't seem to be as everyone claims, at least on mine. Kind of disappointing as of now. I have the set of 3 sl3000's on each and I realize the bottom 2 are supposed to be less loud, but mine seem very weak? Seems like my 2.3's just sound like big speakers. Maybe a bad interface cable?

"Big Speakers". That's exactly how I used to describe my 1.2tl's. Stick with it. You'll find the magic. Now that I've finally had a taste of it, I can't wait to get mine up to level of other members of this forum. Right at this moment I'm wondering how much better they can actually sound. Apparently they can and others have already proven it.

RickTfromAZ

Strong Bad wrote: »

Great story Rick! Stay single, screw hot chicks and enjoy them monster SDA's!!!

I like you. Thanks for the encouragement.

Toolfan66

Spikes
RDO tweeters
Dynamat for the driver/ passive baskets
Crossover upgrades with gimpods boards ( better hurry only 7 sets left )
Solen inductor upgrade
Binding post upgrade
AI-1 dreadnought SDA cable

Good speaker cables...

DarqueKnight

RickTfromAZ wrote: »

In September of this year, I finally rented a house with a room large enough to handle the 1.2tl's. Imagine renting a house based solely upon whether or not they would accommodate your speakers.

It's easy to imagine. Audiophilia is not a "hobby", it's a lifestyle.

RickTfromAZ wrote: »

I repaired the harness, reassembled everything and sat down for another listen. OMG!!!! The sound stage, the bass, the articulation; it's now there in spades! I finally have experienced the SDA effect and now fully understand what the other members have been raving about. I am presently going through my entire CD collection. It's like hearing all these CD?s again for the first time. I?m hooked! This revelation has now created some insanity.

Welcome to true stereo.

inspiredsports

You asked about the single component that makes the biggest improvement, but that creates conflicts. There is so much synergy involved.

If you upgrade caps without replacing tweeters, or tweeters without upgrading caps, the weakness of the non-upgraded component shows up. Tweeters and caps together are probably the biggest initial bang-for-the-buck improvements to be made.

Rings in conjunction with with improved gasketing yields a nice improvement that again is limited without crossover and tweeter upgrades.

If you have proper amplification, new SDA inductors moving 15" passive radiators allow you to "feel" bass in a way that's hard to describe.

Spikes, Dynamat Extreme, cabinet damping materials, improved binding posts and SDA interconnects also yield subtle but noticable improvements.

Then you can start working on upgrading components, interconnects and speaker cables.

Last, you are already at a point where room treatments will probably make the most dramatic per-dollar improvement to the sound quality of your rig.

In between, don't forget to listen to the music!

Toolfan66

inspiredsports wrote: »

You asked about the single component that makes the biggest improvement, but that creates conflicts. There is so much synergy involved.

If you upgrade caps without replacing tweeters, or tweeters without upgrading caps, the weakness of the non-upgraded component shows up. Tweeters and caps together are probably the biggest initial bang-for-the-buck improvements to be made.

Rings in conjunction with with improved gasketing yields a nice improvement that again is limited without crossover and tweeter upgrades.

If you have proper amplification, new SDA inductors moving 15" passive radiators allow you to "feel" bass in a way that's hard to describe.

Spikes, Dynamat Extreme, cabinet damping materials, improved binding posts and SDA interconnects also yield subtle but noticable improvements.

Then you can start working on upgrading components, interconnects and speaker cables.

Last, you are already at a point where room treatments will probably make the most dramatic per-dollar improvement to the sound quality of your rig.

In between, don't forget to listen to the music!

Very well said!!!

evhudsons

Every step in mods have made my SDA's so much better, but when I finally hooked up a decent amp to them...only then did I realize how incredible they are. I laugh to myself that the dedicated amp was my last upgrade so far, and it finally made all the upgrades shine!

Tool66's list is perfect as you already have his rings, otherwise I would put them on par or above spikes.

Tour2ma

Interesting story, Rick... good luck as you continue your audio journey...

Toolfan66 wrote: »

The big one in my opinion and most over looked is the room they are in, most people don't have the perfect room but can be tamed with room treatments.
Others are how they are set up, how far from the back wall and side walls, how far they are apart for the room you have...
After you have everything running correctly set-up/gear then indulge yourself in upgrades. Have fun and be patient..

Yessir... words with which to grow. Ain't it amazing how acoustics impact a psychoacoustic process. :idea:

First leap for my stock SRS's was a room change and the biggest factor was going from a short wall in a medium sized room to a long wall in a large room. Everything else about the new room was acoustically worse (lots of glass, bare ceramic tile floors, a brick accent wall), but the SDA "bloom" that came from the virtual elimination of sidewall effects made the move permanent. And every acoustic drawback was addressed over time.