Trouble sleeping

bobman1235

Tbone289 wrote: »

I missed that one. Who are you quoting?

I was paraphrasing for emphasis; Fongolio said "I use it nightly."

muncybob

Nightly seems a bit much to me too. My wife works 3rd shift and her schedule is irratic. She takes it on occassion to help her sleep and it works for her but you take anything on a daily basis and your body is going to develop a dependance/expectation for that.

I also had back problems...couple herniated discs, etc. Over time I have been exercising more and due to the property we have now I'm much more active than I used to be. I believe this has helped me a lot as I have not had any serious back issues in years.

IMHO, advice on ab work and exercise are words to take seriously but start slowly.

ryanjoachim

dorokusai wrote: »

See a doctor, get some sleep meds to get some temporary sleep and see if the pattern changes. You probably need to get a sleep study done. I've been an insomniac for 20 years so it's not surprising to me to see others with sleep issues. I've been thru all kinds of medications and some worked better than others but I usually still wake up on them. Melatonin is garbage for me but you should try it. If you have to take heavy doses to get an effect, stop taking it.

Since you've been on multiple mattresses, that's one thing to pay attention to but it may still be the root cause as you bring all that inability to sleep with you, wherever you go. Have you ever tried sleeping on the couch? or in a chair? I know it sounds silly but see what it does to your pattern. I have 7 blown discs in my back and it's not easy for me either.

It's almost 95% mental in reality. I have however become quite the B-Movie expert and get excited when there's a movie or show on that I haven't seen already, ha ha.

Totally agree with the exercise comments from multiple people and you may want to look into Yoga. It's helped me a lot with centering and alleviated some of my early morning issues.

Good luck.

I never made that connection before, but yeah...I tend to sleep really well on a couch. Chair, not so much though.

gwg_97

bobman1235 wrote: »

Maybe your and my definitions of addicting differ, but "i have to take it every night to get to sleep" sounds addictive to me.

I took it for three months straight and then stopped cold turkey with no isuess. Try to do that with Ambien or some other sleep med.

rebuy

Some of you make me laugh. Since Melatonin is naturally produced by your own body and levels can be reduced as you age, it just makes sense that you might have to help your own body replace it if your levels of it have fallen. Maybe you have low M or maybe you just have Low T.

gwg_97

rebuy wrote: »

Some of you make me laugh. Since Melatonin is naturally produced by your own body and levels can be reduced as you age, it just makes sense that you might have to help your own body replace it if your levels of it have fallen. Maybe you have low M or maybe you just have Low T.

Yeah, maybe I should take one of those fancy new meds for low T. It seems to make all those guys on the TV commercials pretty happy.

Fongolio

gwg_97 wrote: »

I took it for three months straight and then stopped cold turkey with no isuess. Try to do that with Ambien or some other sleep med.

Precisely. Since the body produces it naturally, but as we age it produces less, any doctor will tell you it's perfectly safe to take nightly. Non-addictive means no withdrawl effects whatsoever from stopping.

Tbone289

bobman1235 wrote: »

I was paraphrasing for emphasis; Fongolio said "I use it nightly."

"I use it nightly and it is very effective in getting me to sleep" doesn't have the same meaning as "i have to take it every night to get to sleep". You have added the element of addiction with your quote.

Rather than "paraphrasing for emphasis", you altered the meaning of his statement to support your comment.

bobman1235

Tbone289 wrote: »

"I use it nightly and it is very effective in getting me to sleep" doesn't have the same meaning as "i have to take it every night to get to sleep". You have added the element of addiction with your quote.

Rather than "paraphrasing for emphasis", you altered the meaning of his statement to support your comment.

I stand by my statement.

gdb

gwg_97 wrote: »

Yeah, maybe I should take one of those fancy new meds for low T. It seems to make all those guys on the TV commercials pretty happy.

It's horse sperm........... in a fancy package

fatchowmein

If you're willing to experiment for 6 weeks...

Change your diet. Avoid grain, bread, alcohol, legumes, sugar. Eat plenty of meats (real meat not ground up stuff), vegetables, fruits, and healthy fats.

Avoid exercise unless it's very low, low intensity with high duration (walk, hike) or high intensity with very low duration (e.g. sprint for 30 seconds, walk 4 min to recover, repeat 3 times; limit to once a week). I would normally recommend lifting some weights or pullups/chinups and pushups but since your back is hurting let's avoid it for now.

Relax. Do things that eases tension and avoid anything that may cause an inflammatory response.

Avoid artificial lights a few hours before bed so no TV, Facebook, computers, digital anything. If you want to be hardcore about it, pretend you have a blackout and just use candles instead of artificial light. This will reset your body's circadian rhythm (or so I've read from other folk's account) and produce natural melatonin. Get some sunlight during the day if you can.

See how you feel after 6 weeks.

I did all of the above (except the candle stuff) because I was stuck in graveyard mode (did it for 18 months), was 25 lbs overweight, had back, knee, digestive, sleep problems. It's all resolved but my issues were dietary and lifestyle and not caused by car accidents so ultimately I hope it works for you but you may need more than just diet and exercise.

Best of luck to you.

TECHNOKID

Change your diet. Avoid grain, bread, alcohol, legumes, sugar. Eat plenty of meats (real meat not ground up stuff), vegetables, fruits, and healthy fats.

I do not want to arguee but rather undestand, I've been told by so many over the years to avoid the meat (particularly red which I love! ), can you explain furthermore (why and what it actually does)?

BEW; no issues with the food to avoid, already do it.

Thanks in advance!
TK

fatchowmein

TECHNOKID wrote: »

I do not want to arguee but rather undestand, I've been told by so many over the years to avoid the meat (particularly red which I love! ), can you explain furthermore (why and what it actually does)?

Great question and I'll try to reply the best I can with my Joe Average understanding. I purposely left "meats" undefined so you can pick what works best for your needs but I'm talking about fish, chicken, beef, pork, etc. For me a piece of meat helps with satiety and satisfies my quest for a longterm, sustainable lifestyle. However, I'm 39, 135-137lbs, 5'6", lift weights, run, walk, cycle, and hike and my cholesterol is good to great so I eat my favorite prime ribeye every week but I do keep an eye on it (bloodwork). I eat red meat moderately because it's always available so no need to gorge. The protein helps with maintaining my muscle tone and since I avoid most grains and sugar I'm not spiking my insulin level and flooding my system with sugar, causing insulin resistance and arterial hardening/atheralsclerosis. Low-fat diet just isn't sustainable when you're asking me to avoid fats and meat leaving just carbohydrates for fuel. I rather fuel on proteins and fats and so far this lifestyle is easy and sustainable. Bread, grains, sugar tend to make me hungrier which causes me to overeat!

Bear in mind, I don't make any money in regard to fitness and diet. I have no allegiance to any guru's out there. I read, try to comprehend, experiment, and modify as I see fit for my condition, age, lifestyle, needs, etc. That also means that I will go to Hooters with the guys at the office on Wed for wings and fries and I do share a piece of cake with my wife on the weekends.

TECHNOKID

Thanks for the reply and details. Maybe trying to go back to a little more red meat help the muscle mass a little and therefore provide some relief to my aging and damaged back. To the OP, no intention to hyjack your thread but simply trying to learn along your side a little more of the healthy ways to help my own back situation.

Mark, I tought my back was bad but with your 7 damaged discs I now feel like a whiner (however, I realize you are much younger than the old **** is :frown:).

Tony M

This is exactly like my antique massage chaise that vibrated me to sleep many, many nights when I wasn't getting anything for pain.

I agree partly with Dorokusai in that Melatonin doesn't work to well(I tried about 3 other brands) but THE SCHIFF BRAND melatonin DOES WORK.

One 3 mil. of SCHIFF brand melatonin really relaxes me where as the others, I couldn't tell much ever.

This chair below rolls up or down to elevate feet and the massaging action,( mine has 2 motors) and can be set to barely feel it , to a rumbling wave of rolling vibrations. It is an excellent relaxation devise that kept me from shooting my shoulder off and still helps me out on my back porch when I want to sit in it instead of my Panny massage chair, which also reclines almost horizontally and massages ny calfs and stretchs my legs if I want it to..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Retro-Eames-Era-Chaise-Lounge-Massage-Chair-/400252114076?pt=Sofas_Loveseats_Chaises&hash=item5d30e2949c

gdb

I hear that Propofol should be avoided as a sleep inducer. :-)

[Deleted User]

Sleep aid suggestion and I am not trying to be funny or thread de-rail - I like to sleep with the TV on and to that end I have a DVD just for that purpose. Don't get me wrong here I love Seinfeld the Tv series, but I find if I put on a Seinfeld DVD any season (Season one especially) I sleep very soundly. Also, I have cut back significantly on caffeine intake, none after morning coffee. I have also replaced basically every other drink in my diet with water. Hope this helps. :cool:

[Deleted User]

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Try an inversion table before going to bed and when getting up. Just a few minutes should help relieve the pain a little before you go to bed.

I was thinking of getting one of these. Has anyone tried the Teeter Hang Up ? :cool:

BeefJerky

dorokusai wrote: »

The L series are from the effects of a past injury, no idea what the C series is from.

Too much headbanging?

fatchowmein

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Thanks for the reply and details. Maybe trying to go back to a little more red meat help the muscle mass a little and therefore provide some relief to my aging and damaged back.:frown:).

I didn't really answer your red meat question. There are a lot of studies linking a red meat diet to clogged arteries so the thinking had been fat is bad so let's recommend a lowfat diet. Some new studies find the data inconclusive. What I do see is high obesity rates and a huge jump in diabetes from a high carb diet to the point Type 2 is no longer called "adult onset diabetes" because it now occurs regularly before age 50. I do hear arguments that the real culprit to clogged arteries is a large insulin response due to a high carb and fat diet. More research is needed but I think I'm less susceptible to heart attacks and diabetes now with a 29" waist but I will get annual physicals to make certain.

Willow

fatchowmein wrote: »

I didn't really answer your red meat question. There are a lot of studies linking a red meat diet to clogged arteries so the thinking had been fat is bad so let's recommend a lowfat diet. Some new studies find the data inconclusive. What I do see is high obesity rates and a huge jump in diabetes from a high carb diet to the point Type 2 is no longer called "adult onset diabetes" because it now occurs regularly before age 50. I do hear arguments that the real culprit to clogged arteries is a large insulin response due to a high carb and fat diet. More research is needed but I think I'm less susceptible to heart attacks and diabetes now with a 29" waist but I will get annual physicals to make certain.

Maybe you should change your name to Slimchowmein with a 29" waist.

TECHNOKID

Willow wrote: »

Maybe you should change your name to Slimchowmein with a 29" waist.

I'd say "extraslim" would be more appropriate!Geez, he is 11" slimmer than I am and eats food I wish I could!

fatchowmein

Well, let's not cheer yet. I want to see if this lifestyle/diet is sustainable (I'm talking 5+ years). If my bloodwork next year comes back with a triglyceride of 247, it's back to the drawing boards. Also, try to keep things in perspective. I'm a short/small guy who weighed 130 in 7th grade with a 28" waist.

My moniker came from watching too many Chow Yun Fat movies (e.g. Hard Boiled, The Killer, A Better Tomorrow, etc).

But back to the OP's topic. I don't know his age or physical condition but I'm guessing he's at least moderately in shape if he was doing Crossfit. If you are carrying a few extra pounds, work on it but don't think that you need to shell out $$ to be fit. I know that when I'm at 155+ my back starts to give me problems, I sleep sporadically, I have digestive problems, my knees start to hurt, and I wake up with various numbness on my body. I've tried P90x, South Beach, low-fat, counting calories (Lose It!), running, cycling and here's what I've discovered so far (for me that is).

1. It's 80% what I eat.
2. It's 10% rest/sleep/recovery.
3. It's 10% exercise.
4. High intensity/short duration or low intensity/long duration works best for exercises.
5. P90x kicks my arse. It's just too brutal to sustain but fun for about a month.
6. South Beach is really boring and the first two weeks sucks bad. I do much better upping the fat intake.
7. Low-fat makes me want to binge on potato chips.
8. Counting calories is boring.
9. Cycling is fun if I'm not trying to win the Tour. I'm more of a social rider.
10. I love running if I take it easy but my attention span wanes at 90 min so I keep it short at 30min except for Sat.
11. I can tolerate sprinting (running, elliptical, or cycling outside or on a trainer) once a week.
12. Mark Sisson makes the most sense so far and it works for me (so far). I do own his book.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/
13. Managing inflammation and stress helps a lot. I'm hoping it will also help alleviate my winter sinus problems. We'll see...
14. I like the 80/20 rule that Mark proposes (do it right 80% of the time and, I'm paraphasing here, have pizza, burgers, scotch the other 20% - just don't gripe if your effort to slim down is too slow or stalls).

I understand the OP's back is damaged from car accidents but if he can't get surgery or PT, his only choice is to do things within his control like diet, exercise, and good sleep hygiene. I know what it's like to be an insomniac although I did not have his level of pain but I hope some of the things I've mention will be of some help and comfort.

http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.htm

Best of luck to you.

fatchowmein

I forgot to mention my "lifting weights".

Monday (30 min or less depending on how I feel).
Dumbell squats 5x5 (50 lbs each)
Pullups x9
Chinups x5
Closegrip pullups x3
Widegrip pullups x2
Pullups x2
Dumbell military press 5x5 (30lbs each)

Thursday (30 min or less depending on how I feel).
Dumbell squats (see above)
Deadlift with curling bar 5x5 (140 lbs; it's what I have)
Pushups x50
Military pushups x20
Wide pushups x20
Decline pushups x12
Heart-to-heart pushups x6

All equipment above are meager. Just a few dumbells, curling bar, and plates hobbled together. No chance of looking like Tony Horton or Arnold but that's not my goal.

evhudsons

Wow! Well said with great documentation, plans, outcomes, summations! I can't agree with everything only because I haven't done a lot of those things listed. On your exercise schedule, you could add some old fashioned low to no weight lunges. It helps the back as well as the legs and overall structural strength. A Navy Seal taught me that fact, not a buds washout, a SEAL.
It works and helps with your other excersizing and is free.

I'm in the "should eat a sandwich" category. But now I'm of the age and barley and cheese consumption level I need to start paying more attention. I should have aweful cholesterol levels, but I am always busy, eat tons of fish and shellfish, lean red meat, pork salads and very importantly lots of water. Water is key to making sure everything you ate doing is effective. Your body knows its triage priority and reacts best with a healthy load of water. It also helps hearing.

markmarc

Ryan:
You say you've tried 3 different mattresses, what quality are they? One of the rules of life I learned is that a quality mattress is worth every penny, after all you spend 7 hours a night on it. It's ironic that we will spend $400 a month on a car we drive 40 minutes a day, but won't spend more than $500 total on a mattress we spend 2100 hours a month sleeping on.

Exercise as we get older is a big part of sleeping well. For the past six weeks I've been walking 1.5 miles every morning before school starts. No more back pain from stand on a hard surface all day. I'm falling asleep easily every night about 10.

A good balanced diet with moderation of all food groups and plenty of water does the body good. I also agree with others about getting a daily dose of vitamin D from being outside or a supplement.

Definitely, get another Kaiser Dr. to see you. I have kaiser as well and as long as I have good documentation on my chart getting a specialized test (MRI) isn't hard. Then go see the PT once or twice to get an exercise routine going to rebuild muscle.

Best of luck

ryanjoachim

One of the mattresses cost me around $900, so it was a decent quality one. The others I didn't pay for, but I wouldn't expect them to cost more than a few hundred each.

As for who I am: 28 years old, 6' tall, 282lbs currently. February of this year I was 325lbs, joined crossfit + changed how I ate a bit, and dropped down to 280. I've been holding steady at 280 for the last 4 months or so. Water has been my go-to drink for the past few years, although I do dabble in caffeine every now and then still.

george daniel

ryanjoachim wrote: »

Every night without end, I end up tossing and turning trying to find a comfortable position. Every time I wake up I have to switch sides because my back is killing me. I've tried different pillows, less pillows, more pillows...it's been consistent across 3 different mattresses.

Just wondering if anyone else has issues like this, and if so...were you able to find something (besides prescriptions) that helped you?

how old are you--height/weight--any snoring?

ryanjoachim

george daniel wrote: »

how old are you--height/weight--any snoring?

See my post right above yours.

As for the snoring, I do snore a little (according to my ex-wife + ex-girlfriends). I also used to have trouble with sleep-apnea, but since I got my dentures that seems to have gone away.

TECHNOKID

ryanjoachim wrote: »

One of the mattresses cost me around $900, so it was a decent quality one. The others I didn't pay for, but I wouldn't expect them to cost more than a few hundred each.

As for who I am: 28 years old, 6' tall, 282lbs currently. February of this year I was 325lbs, joined crossfit + changed how I ate a bit, and dropped down to 280. I've been holding steady at 280 for the last 4 months or so. Water has been my go-to drink for the past few years, although I do dabble in caffeine every now and then still.

Ouch! ryanjoachim, if you think you have problems now it will just get worse as you age unless you take some drastic measures now.

I am 6'2" and weight close to 230 pounds and figure the weight does affect my back and other joints. I feel if I could loose about 50 pounds I would feel a lot better and that pain would be diminished substantially. I am presently at 55 years of age so close to double your age IMHO, if you do not take drastic measures now you will be suffering a lot more than you do when you get in the 50 range and that is if you make it that far. I do not mean to scare you but this is serious stuff. I think George can help and provide recommendations even better in that regard.

george daniel wrote: »

how old are you--height/weight--any snoring?

Can you elaborate a little more on the snoring part? How does this affect health, sleep and/or pain?

Thanks!
TK