SDA-CRS+ in the house!

audiocr381ve
audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
edited October 2011 in Vintage Speakers
I picked up a pair of SDA-CRS+ (blade/blade) tonight from JohnLocke88. He was very kind and let me take a listen to his 1C's as well. They're in great shape and I'm excited to start work on them!

Many of you know that I have the 2B's (TL). One of the reasons I kept my eye out for CRS's is because of how easy they'll be to work on. Once I'm finished, I'm going to give either the 2B's or CRS+'s (depending on which one sounds better :cheesygrin:) to my brother. He blew his Polks (RT600's) a few months ago and I've been wanting to get him something really nice to listen through.

Anyway, it's my understanding that the blade/blade CRS+'s are a little different to work with than the pin/blade versions although I don't know why. It is also my understanding that the 2B xover is exactly the same as the pin/blade CRS+ xover but not the blade blade. What I want to know is if I'll be able to perform the TL mod on these and what else I'll have to keep in mind working with the blade/blade version as I plan to do a full upgrade. Thanks guys!
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited October 2011
    Congrats!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    leroyjr1 wrote: »
    Congrats!

    Thanks!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    Cool !!!! Have fun!!!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Cool !!!! Have fun!!!

    I'll need some rings :biggrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    No you can't do the TL mod on Blade/Blade CRS's. Did you get stands also? But you can obviously upgrade all the other components including the tweeters.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2011
    If it were me, and you'd need to investigate this, but just swap the x-overs from your modded 2B's (TL'd) withthe CRS+ you just bought and give your brother the 2B's with the CRS+ blade/blade x-over.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    I was lucky enough to find a set of 2B/CRS+ xovers for $25 on ebay then started up my upgrades.. so Yes you can use the xovers out of your 2B's but you will also need to use the two MW6510's out of them as well..
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,447
    edited October 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    I was lucky enough to find a set of 2B/CRS+ xovers for $25 on ebay then started up my upgrades.. so Yes you can use the xovers out of your 2B's but you will also need to use the two MW6510's out of them as well..

    2B's use mw6510? or keep the 6510's in the CRS+??? I thought the 2b's used 6503 and 6511 and the 2A's used the dual6510's
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    Typo!!! MW6511's will have to be used out of the 2B's
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    I was lucky enough to find a set of 2B/CRS+ xovers for $25 on ebay then started up my upgrades.. so Yes you can use the xovers out of your 2B's but you will also need to use the two MW6510's out of them as well..

    Thanks guys!

    Larry, I just found that thread. So I'd be taking both drivers and xover out of the 2B's and swapping them with the 6510's and xovers currently in the CRS+ (sorry if that didn't make to much sense, I'm not the most articulate person)?
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited October 2011
    You only need to take the MW6511's out of the 2B's
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    You only need to take the MW6511's out of the 2B's

    Let me get this straight...pull the 6511's out of the 2B's, leave the 6503's. Then pull two 6510's out of the CRS+'s and replace the 6511's in the 2B's?

    So the CRS+ would look like this....
    RD0-198
    Dimensional Driver | Stereo Driver
    6511 | 6510
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  • JohnLocke88
    JohnLocke88 Posts: 1,150
    edited October 2011
    Just wanted to poke my head in and say I'm glad these went to a fellow Polkie.

    Now I have the opportunity to "reinvest" my money into some SDA-1C upgrades :)
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  • evhudsons
    evhudsons Posts: 1,175
    edited October 2011
    Or you could just upgrade what you have and be happy with the newer rdo194's.

    I did the tl upgrade, but the difference in all those changes, hmm....

    tough call.

    and Congratulations! It's nice to have dilemmas like these!
    Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    evhudsons wrote: »
    Or you could just upgrade what you have and be happy with the newer rdo194's.

    I did the tl upgrade, but the difference in all those changes, hmm....

    tough call.

    and Congratulations! It's nice to have dilemmas like these!

    Tell me more!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    JohnLocke88 wrote: »
    Just wanted to poke my head in and say I'm glad these went to a fellow Polkie.

    Now I have the opportunity to "reinvest" my money into some SDA-1C upgrades :)

    Thanks John! Do the tweeters first!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    Guys, I've decided that I want to keep moving forward with the 2B TL's and finish those off. I wish I could find a pair of 2B xover's like you did Larry, but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

    What I want to do is work with what I got. I'm not familiar with the 2 piece xover's in these 1986 CRS+'s but I just downloaded the schematic and I'm going to order some parts tomorrow. Is there any way I can perform the TL mod on these with out taking anything from my 2B's?
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    Sorry about the quad-post.

    Just did a ton of reading. Looks like unless I find some 2B crossovers, or later versions of the CRS+ crossovers, I won't be able to do the TL Mod.

    I might just do what I can until then and work with the RD0-194's.
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  • evhudsons
    evhudsons Posts: 1,175
    edited October 2011
    You won't be disappointed. The rdo194's really sound great, and the mods will make it somuch better.

    It sounds like you've. Been SDA'ing. I can tell. Welcome to the universe.
    Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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  • evhudsons
    evhudsons Posts: 1,175
    edited October 2011
    Yes, do the tweeters, dynamat, get proper stands and spike them. , seal the drivers and from what I heard ring them too. Mine are coming soon. Also upgrade your sda cable it ope
    S it up drastically, as much as spiking. Dont forget perfect alignment. I use an angle tool and tape measure to equalize distance and to make sure there is no toe in or out. After that get out some bucks and mod your crossovers and binding posts. But tweeters, spikes, sda cord, seals, and rock on
    Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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  • evhudsons
    evhudsons Posts: 1,175
    edited October 2011
    I meant that despite the tl upgrade being great, I can't say it's worth all those drastic changes just to get 198's over the 194's when the difference doesn't equal the positives of all the other mods and tweaks. If the tl 4.1 is easy enough it's a no brainer to do, but if you have to start parting out or drastically changing what you already have, just go with what you think is worth it for you. I'm sure you can be just as happy with or without the 4.1tl. I love it but it was a small step for me.
    Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    evhudsons wrote: »
    I meant that despite the tl upgrade being great, I can't say it's worth all those drastic changes just to get 198's over the 194's when the difference doesn't equal the positives of all the other mods and tweaks. If the tl 4.1 is easy enough it's a no brainer to do, but if you have to start parting out or drastically changing what you already have, just go with what you think is worth it for you. I'm sure you can be just as happy with or without the 4.1tl. I love it but it was a small step for me.

    Thanks EV. You're totally right. I already have TL'ed speakers anyway. It'll be fun to listen to them side by side after all the mods are finished. I could also try and run them both at the same time although I'm not sure if the universe could take it!
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited October 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    Let me get this straight...pull the 6511's out of the 2B's, leave the 6503's. Then pull two 6510's out of the CRS+'s and replace the 6511's in the 2B's?

    So the CRS+ would look like this....
    RD0-198
    Dimensional Driver | Stereo Driver
    6511 | 6510
    Close but no cigar, On SDA's the Dimensional Driver always go's in the outside position like this.
    Left Speaker
    RD0-198/194
    Dimensional Driver | Stereo Driver
    6511 | 6510
    Right Speaker
    RD0-198/194
    Stereo Driver | Dimensional Driver
    6510 | 6511
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    gimpod wrote: »
    Close but no cigar, On SDA's the Dimensional Driver always go's in the outside position like this.
    Left Speaker
    RD0-198/194
    Dimensional Driver | Stereo Driver
    6511 | 6510
    Right Speaker
    RD0-198/194
    Stereo Driver | Dimensional Driver
    6510 | 6511

    Yes, I understood.

    I was thinking about buying some boards from you but finding the small inductors would be tough. What do you think?
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    No you can't do the TL mod on Blade/Blade CRS's. Did you get stands also? But you can obviously upgrade all the other components including the tweeters.

    Brock, why do you feel the blade/blade CRS+ can't be TL'd?
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    Thanks for quoting that, I missed that post.

    Brock, John threw in a pair of stands but they weren't the originals.
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2011
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Brock, why do you feel the blade/blade CRS+ can't be TL'd?

    I may be mistaken, but I believe if they are the 2 crossover board (blade/blade) versions they cannot be TL'd. The circuit boards will not allow it due to the way the circuits are run (and there is no spot for the 5.8uF cap(s)).

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2011
    headrott wrote: »
    I may be mistaken, but I believe if they are the 2 crossover board (blade/blade) versions they cannot be TL'd. The circuit boards will not allow it due to the way the circuits are run (and there is no spot for the 5.8uF cap(s)).

    Greg

    The 2.7 ohm resistor is what's bypassed with the 5.8 uf cap. There's no "spot" needed and leaving the 6510's in place should not be a problem.

    This goes back to the entire discussion between Disc Jockey and Ken/Matt Polk about TL'ing SDA 1B's (and therefore SDA SRS 2's, 2A's and CRS+ blade/blades). It works well and I will be posting the frequency response curves in my SDA SRS II thread soon

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?74946-SDA-SRS-2-Crossover-Parts-list

    Greg
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    The 2.7 ohm resistor is what's bypassed with the 5.8 uf cap. There's no "spot" needed and leaving the 6510's in place should not be a problem.

    This goes back to the entire discussion between Disc Jockey and Ken/Matt Polk about TL'ing SDA 1B's (and therefore SDA SRS 2's, 2A's and CRS+ blade/blades). It works well and I will be posting the frequency response curves in my SDA SRS II thread soon

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?74946-SDA-SRS-2-Crossover-Parts-list

    Greg

    This is really interesting. What exactly do I do when I bypass the 2.7 ohm resistor? Pull it out and install a 5.8uf cap in its place?
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2011
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    The 2.7 ohm resistor is what's bypassed with the 5.8 uf cap. There's no "spot" needed and leaving the 6510's in place should not be a problem.

    This goes back to the entire discussion between Disc Jockey and Ken/Matt Polk about TL'ing SDA 1B's (and therefore SDA SRS 2's, 2A's and CRS+ blade/blades). It works well and I will be posting the frequency response curves in my SDA SRS II thread soon

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?74946-SDA-SRS-2-Crossover-Parts-list

    Greg

    That's the first I've seen of that thread (that I remember anyway). Thanks for posting it.

    Is the 2.7 ohm resistor bypassed, or paralleled with the 5.8uF cap? I thought it was the latter, but it's been a couple years since doing my 2B's. Plus, they are the single crossover board (although they are blade/blade). I have never touched the dual crossover board SDA's.

    It was my understanding (which as I stated may be mistaken) that the double crossover (1986, blade/blade) SDA's could not be TL'd. At least not in a "true" TL sense. That is, you can put a 5.8uF cap in the circuit, but it was not intended and no plans were made to have it come stock that way. Please correct me if I am mistaken though.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter