New Setup, same old results..

Anon

Thanks for that recommendation pretzelfisch. Unfortunately I do not have the dough to sink into treating my media room for acoustics.. But worth watching regardless and I have spent ample time since I first started this thread, finding the ideal listening position, at least what can be had for the dimensions of my room. I am however interested in the feedback from those that may have owned a sr5008 or sc63. I still need a receiver and I can't see a whole lot of distinguishable differences between the two, besides auddessey and watt outputtage, which I dare to question whether those are real world figures pioneer and marantz are touting.. Even so, a difference of 25 watts, in contrast to no warranty (as Pioneer will not honor online purchases, considering their failure rate with this line, its a deal-breaker for me). The sr5008 is local and covered under warranty. There is also the sc71 which seems to be more of a step down from the 63

tonyb

The pioneer with it's built in ice amps will hold it's power rating more true with 5 or 7 speakers attached to it. Not aware of any quality issues either.

Anon,
It's been 2 years dude, you still haven't upgraded the receiver or picked out a different subwoofer ? Here's my take on your problems judging by the pics posted.

Your room is pretty large, your speakers fairly small, your subwoofer too small, and your power inadequate. In others word, wrong gear for the size of the room, which equates to under performing sound. Changing one thing isn't going to make that big of a change though if one thing was to change, the subwoofer needs to be a better one to pressurize a room that big.

Nice screen btw, I assume since you got the big screen, put it in the big room, you want the big theatre like sound to go with it, yes ?
You'll need bigger speekers, something along the lines of the RTIA9's or LSIM's along with the associated center speaker. A subwoofer of better output like a SVS,HSU, Velodyne. Lastly, you need a receiver with pre-outs and an additional amplifier, at least a 3 channel amp to power the front 3 and let the receiver power the rest of the speakers. That's if you want to have the sound match the big screen bro. Yes, it all cost money, but trying to do it on the cheap will give you sound that sounds that way too. Many of this can be had used at nearly half retail, which is a no brainer if your wallet squeaks when opened.

Anon

"It's been 2 years dude, you still haven't upgraded the receiver or picked out a different subwoofer ? Here's my take on your problems judging by the pics posted."

Other priorities guy, hence the house that "big room" sits in
Just sold that under-powered Yammy and needed some references. Currently I'm debating between the Marantz sr5008 and Denon AVR-X3000. These are really the only good ones I can find (based on ratings and reviews, pre-outs) closest to my house, in-store. Prices have been the same or higher online. I've considered the Pioneer SC-63 mentioned earlier but I'm not too keen on the risks weighed buying an un-warrantied product. All risks aside, nothing is guaranteed to work forever, which I understand. Hence the reason I returned to the boards. If you know of any better ones at under a $1,000 price point or have any familiarity with either of these models, please let me know.

"Your room is pretty large, your speakers fairly small, your subwoofer too small, and your power inadequate."

I wouldn't go so far as to say the M70's are small by any means. Especially in audio. Granted they aren't RTi's or LSi's but that judgement may be a little harsh. The CS2 was purchased at the recommendation of many people on this forum and elsewhere and I don't have a lot of complaints about it, other than it seems a bit quiet. That again, could be the choice in the previous avr. TSi300's look cheaper more than anything. Since I have them set as surrounds I really can't place a fair judgement on them. T15's.. Yes, they suck but I'm considering removing these altogether so not much of a concern. Current sub, goes without saying.. That's what happens when you don't do your own research beforehand and listen to the advice of big-box sales reps.. Already learned that lesson. As for the above and "power" inadequacies, that is why I've returned to the board for advice and recommendations I should have sought prior. I make no assertions, that I know much about audio and electronics.. This much should be evident.

Also, considering your recommendation on amps.. I'm not very knowledgeable on amps, so if if you feel the need to face-palm yourself at any time while reading this, please feel free not to tell me about it, as you were warned I haven't been able to find a 3 channel amplifier, just 2, 5 and 7 channel ones. Since you had recommended running my fronts and center, should I be looking for a 3 channel amp only? Would a 5 or 7 be overkill? Example, with a 5 channel amp, rated at 80 wpc @ 8 ohms, if I'm only using 3 of those channels, what's done with the remaining 2 channels? Does the remaining 160 wpc (80x2) go unused or is it divided up between the 3 used channels? Like I said before, not very knowledgeable on amps. But I am factoring 2, based on the answer to that question: Emotiva XPA-200 or UPA-500.

"Many of this can be had used at nearly half retail, which is a no brainer if your wallet squeaks when opened."

Heh.. With some of the names you've mentioned (HSU, Velodyne, SVS, etc..) there is a thin line on price between new and used. Other words, it's so small of a difference I didn't really notice. Still doing a little more research on subs but have a few I'm looking at, at the moment: PSW505, BIC PL200 and Velodyne SB-1000. Very hard to get unbiased reviews these days, as most of these seem to be pushing brand over build.

tonyb

Anon,

Depends on what your shooting for and what the wallet allows. Please don't take my comments as confrontational, just trying to steer you towards something I know will put a smile on your face everytime you turn it on.

Pioneer SC, Yamaha Advantage series are the 2 receivers you should be looking at. They stand a tad bit taller in the crowd. We also give suggestions based on experience rather than marketing hype. Having all your channels on an external amplifier is optimal, but not always a necessity. The Polk line of speakers, especially the monitor line is pretty easy to drive with any mid-line receiver, but once you start getting up towards the RTIA7's and higher, an amp really makes them shine. Now the size of your room is pretty large my friend, everything in audio serves a purpose....with certain inherit limitations. Kinda like having the right tool for the job if you will. If your going after that movie theatre sound, in a room that big, my assertion you need bigger speakers, better subwoofer, and better power, I still stand by.

Receivers and power ratings are a cluster f%$k of misinformation, the single best thing you can do when picking out a receiver is to have pre-outs to enable you to add more power should you ever decide to upgrade the speakers. Marantz makes nice receivers too that sound darn good, if that brand tickles your fancy. Amps.....is like an ice cream store, many flavors to choose from. Some like the Emo you suggested, a lot don't too. Wouldn't be my first choice but if new with warranty is what your after, then they fit the bill on the cheap.

Thing is, audio gear like cars, devalues fairly quickly. If you want better gear and reasonable cash outlay, the used market is where it's at. Goes without saying however that you have to be careful where you buy used gear from. Stay away from Ebay, too many scammers. Audiogon.....craigslist, would be the first 2 spots I'd look aside from here in our Flea Market.

Lastly, we'd really like to help you achieve better sound in the end. Maybe if you can be more descriptive of exactly what you feel your system is lacking, we can move forward a step at a time......address your issues one by one. Make sense my good man ? We have already pointed to the receiver and subwoofer, let us know whats in your line of sight in those areas and we can guide you to what will make you smile.

Anon

tonyb wrote: »

Anon,

Depends on what your shooting for and what the wallet allows. Please don't take my comments as confrontational, just trying to steer you towards something I know will put a smile on your face everytime you turn it on.

Pioneer SC, Yamaha Advantage series are the 2 receivers you should be looking at. They stand a tad bit taller in the crowd. We also give suggestions based on experience rather than marketing hype. Having all your channels on an external amplifier is optimal, but not always a necessity. The Polk line of speakers, especially the monitor line is pretty easy to drive with any mid-line receiver, but once you start getting up towards the RTIA7's and higher, an amp really makes them shine. Now the size of your room is pretty large my friend, everything in audio serves a purpose....with certain inherit limitations. Kinda like having the right tool for the job if you will. If your going after that movie theatre sound, in a room that big, my assertion you need bigger speakers, better subwoofer, and better power, I still stand by.

Receivers and power ratings are a cluster f%$k of misinformation, the single best thing you can do when picking out a receiver is to have pre-outs to enable you to add more power should you ever decide to upgrade the speakers. Marantz makes nice receivers too that sound darn good, if that brand tickles your fancy. Amps.....is like an ice cream store, many flavors to choose from. Some like the Emo you suggested, a lot don't too. Wouldn't be my first choice but if new with warranty is what your after, then they fit the bill on the cheap.

Thing is, audio gear like cars, devalues fairly quickly. If you want better gear and reasonable cash outlay, the used market is where it's at. Goes without saying however that you have to be careful where you buy used gear from. Stay away from Ebay, too many scammers. Audiogon.....craigslist, would be the first 2 spots I'd look aside from here in our Flea Market.

Lastly, we'd really like to help you achieve better sound in the end. Maybe if you can be more descriptive of exactly what you feel your system is lacking, we can move forward a step at a time......address your issues one by one. Make sense my good man ? We have already pointed to the receiver and subwoofer, let us know whats in your line of sight in those areas and we can guide you to what will make you smile.

No problem. No offense taken whatsoever. I try to poke fun at my lack of knowledge in the av dept. as it shows You're help is greatly appreciated and is 100x better than trying to rely on bias opinions from Amazon and the likes. Basically, in a nutshell, I'm trying to get the most from what I currently have, while maximizing what I can, where it counts. Acoustic treatments are not an option, so I'm left with hardware as the only route. I do plan on eventually upgrading my speakers but for now I'm interested in making upgrades where it counts and will pay off in the long run. What I feel is most lacking, are bass and power. Bass is virtually non-existent from the current sub. I've tried different placements but even when it is there, its lacking. As for power, friends of mine, as well as yourself and other people on this forum, have pointed out that the Yammy I previously had, was the big part of the missing brightness. Just not enough wattage was being fed to the speakers to drive them to their potential. I screwed myself, by purchasing a receiver with no preouts. Seems from what I have gathered, my biggest gains right now, is getting an avr with preouts, an amplifier and a better sub. That way I can push the speakers I do have to their potential for now and still have the base of what I need down the road, when I decide to upgrade the speakers, to a higher end line. What I have to work with now, is a price point of $1700 total. This is the gist of what I feel is lacking and the basis of what I have gathered from other advice in the forum.
I haven't checked Audiogon but I have checked Craigslist locally, which most of what was in my area are car amplifiers. I unfortunately do not have access to view the flea market or "for sale" listings in the forum. Again I appreciate the help Tony and value your opinions and advice.

tonyb

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/receivers-pioneer-elite-9-2-channel-network-receiver-sc-67-open-box-flawless-cond-like-new-2013-10-18-miscellaneous-91303

pretzelfisch

Costco is selling a Pioneer 1222 in store for under 500.
talk to rythmik about your room and something like a http://rythmikaudio.com/E15.html
talk to psa about a xs30 http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xs30 or two xs15 for your room. that will probably get you close, next would be to find a used amp.

Anon

tonyb wrote: »

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/receivers-pioneer-elite-9-2-channel-network-receiver-sc-67-open-box-flawless-cond-like-new-2013-10-18-miscellaneous-91303

I actually like the offerings for that AVR. I think I might just go with that one.

Anon

pretzelfisch wrote: »

Costco is selling a Pioneer 1222 in store for under 500.
talk to rythmik about your room and something like a http://rythmikaudio.com/E15.html
talk to psa about a xs30 http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xs30 or two xs15 for your room. that will probably get you close, next would be to find a used amp.

Thanks for the recommendation Pretzelfisch. In my neck of the woods, Costco only carries Denon and Samsung. Like both of the subs you pointed out but both will break the bank for me ATM unless I just go with the one xs15 and forgoe the amp for now.

tonyb

You won't need an amp with that pioneer receiver, it will drive the monitor speakers with 2 knobs behind it's back.

Anon

tonyb wrote: »

You won't need an amp with that pioneer receiver, it will drive the monitor speakers with 2 knobs behind it's back.

Ok, so that SC-67, should be able to handle all speakers, without over-taxing the amp? I know the sub I likely will get, will have it's own amp so that is a mute point but I like to turn things up as well. I'm not sure whether the power ratings are real world but from what I've heard here, Pioneer's D-class amps tend to be more precise on output. I've also got a buddy of mine, who has been making me an offer on an extra laptop of mine.. Really wish I had saved myself the cash earlier and knew what I do now but live and learn. For me, this is a worthwhile investment anyway, as it seems all I do anymore is work. So at least I have something to enjoy, when I'm not. After my buddy and I seal the deal I should be up to about $2500 firm. Either way I like that SC-67 and think I'm going to go with it regardless. So with the purchase of that SC-67 I should be down to roughly about $1500. And from what I'm gathering, seems I should focus more on the sub next, rather than an amp. So I guess my next question, is can I afford both or should I just invest in the sub for now and look for the amp later?

Here are a two of the subs I have been looking at:

SVS PB12-NSD $769
HSU VTF-15H $899

I chose these 2 based off ratings and reviews. In your opinion, are either of these sufficient enough or should I look a little higher?

pretzelfisch

I have a 13 x 17 living room with a 6 foot open door way. I use one rythmik LV12R, and while I am still playing with positioning it, it pressurizes the room around -20. I think either of those subs will do well.

Anon

pretzelfisch wrote: »

I have a 13 x 17 living room with a 6 foot open door way. I use one rythmik LV12R, and while I am still playing with positioning it, it pressurizes the room around -20. I think either of those subs will do well.

Sounds like a sure bet then. Think I'll stick with the HSU VTF-15H.

I am curious about something Tony mentioned earlier regarding the RTiA9's.. Especially since they can be had refurbished from P.A. at about $500 a speaker. If I did decide to go with the RTiA9's and CSiA6 center, given the choice I made with the Pioneer SC-67,and the HSU sub, would I need to invest in an external amp at that point to drive the RTiA9's and CSiA6 to avoid tover-taxing the SC-67? If so, what exactly would I be looking at price-wise? I've checked around and it looks like the amp I'd need to drive these 3, would range anywhere from $1,000 on up, new. I've had no luck finding any amps locally on CL, other than Emotiva (which I'm seeing these are notorious for humming under load.. Guess that's due to cheap parts.) Ones I've been seeing on AudiogoN, used, are still dipping into the $1,000 on up range and that's for a lower watt rating (100-200). Once again, appreciate the help guys.

Anon

Never mind. Got my answers on another forum. Moderator, please close thread.