Preamp ~$1-2k

falconcry72

Well this is purely hypothetical, as I don't have this kind of coin to spend on a preamp right now. I'm hoping to save up the money over the next year or so, and I'd like to get the research done ahead of time, so that by the time I have the cash I can jump on a good deal when I see it.:cool:

My only requirements are that it be tubed and have a remote for volume and hopefully input selection.


Here's my (very) shortlist so far:

- Audio Research LS-15

- Belles 20A or 21A


Thoughts? Comparisons?

Other suggestions are welcomed and encouraged.

cstmar01

BAT VK20
BAT VK3i
Audio Research
Conrad Johnson
Carey
Manley

headrott

I almost bought a Bells 21A. Good pre especially with the Auricap upgrade, and it's easy to do. I ended up getting a BAT VK3i though as it had the tubes I wanted to use in it and sounds very nice. It is in your price range (used) as well.

Greg

I-SIG

It ain't tubed, but my Wyred 4 Sound pre has made everything better. Go for balanced IC's if you can spare the coin.

Wes

falconcry72

I-SIG wrote: »

...Go for balanced IC's if you can spare the coin.

Wes

I just recently went balanced in my system, and it was a definite improvement.

I went from MIT AVT-1 single-ended IC's (MSRP ~$400) to Signal Cable Analog 2 balanced IC's (MSRP ~$120), and I am very happy about the change.

I would like to continue to run balanced, but I'm not wed to it. If I can get a good deal on a quality unbalanced piece, (ie. the Belles 350a), then so be it.

cstmar01

The bat is balanced lol. I've heard the unit and really like it. It tends to still have a ss sound to it even though its tubed. Very enjoyable and well built. They have great customer service if something goes wrong even on used gear.

quadzilla

I'm pretty impressed with my Conrad Johnson, so +1 to that suggestion.

madmax

Manley Jumbo Shrimp used.

http://www.manley.com/mspr.php

TroyD

I'd look for a Melos SHA-1. Find one. Buy it. Ronco it.

Others I've had/have that I'd recommend:

Carver C-19
Manley Shrimp.

CJ would depend on which model....I've heard some definate winners some good but not great.

Dodd Battery if you can find it....

I wouldn't let balanced be a deal breaker...unless you are dealing with unusually long runs of IC's.

BDT

george daniel

Lots of great suggestions-- the Melos is a killer pre--I killed mine unfortunately--

steveinaz

The Jumbo Shrimp has been the one I've been eye-balling for a potential tube pre.

dkg999

Rogue 66 Magnum or std can be bought used very reasonable and will get you amazingly close to the other pre's in your price range. The AR SP16L is also very good and in your price range.

skipf

Here's a great one in your range:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1319929220&/Joule-Electra-LA-100-deja-vu-a

And one just a tad more:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1318027325&/Joule-Electra-la-150-mkii-mint

Joe08867

Huge fan of Conrad Johnson. Great stuff to be had by them.

Plus they just look awesome..

falconcry72

dkg999 wrote: »

...The AR SP16L is also very good and in your price range.

How does the SP-16L stack up against the LS-15?

I'm sure they sound different. The LS-15 uses (4) 6922's in the audio circuit, but a sloid state power supply, while the SP-16L uses (3) 12AX7's for the audio and gain stages.

Any thoughts on the two?

I was also looking at the LS-1, LS-2, and LS-3B (solid state),as well as the LS-7 or 8, because they can be had cheaper, but the LS-15 and SP-16L look to be worth the extra coin.

dkg999

I've not had a chance to compare the LS-15 and the SP-16L, however there are some differences between those two tube types that would have to impact the sound. I know the 12ax7 tube gets somewhat disparaged as a pre-amp tube, but I have to say that I preferred the 12ax7 tubes in my phono pre compared to a phono pre with the 6922 tubes in it.

heiney9

The right vintage 12AX7's or even 5751's can sound marvelous.

As always, YMMV

H9

falconcry72

dkg999 wrote: »

I've not had a chance to compare the LS-15 and the SP-16L, however there are some differences between those two tube types that would have to impact the sound. I know the 12ax7 tube gets somewhat disparaged as a pre-amp tube, but I have to say that I preferred the 12ax7 tubes in my phono pre compared to a phono pre with the 6922 tubes in it.

It would be nice to be able to get my ears on both, but that's going to be virtually impossible aside from buying both.

Also, the LS-15 has balanced inputs and outputs. Not a deal-sealer by any means, but a sonic consideration, nonetheless.

venomclan

Modwright - tubes, remote and HT Bypass.

falconcry72

Alright guys, thanks to all for the thoughtful suggestions. I love learning about new gear, and it seems at this price point there is A LOT of competition, which is good thing.

I think have decided to go ARC. Not because I believe that an ARC piece will sound better than any of the others mentioned hear, but because ARC is so well known and well written about, that by getting to know an ARC product I will be able to judge other products better in comparison reviews etc. I want to own an ARC preamp at some point in my journey, so it might as well be sooner rather than later.

I've got it narrowed down to the same two mentioned above for this price range:

LS-15 and SP-16L

Can anybody compare the two?

thsmith

I would love to get my ears on a Joules Electra LA-150 only because Jesse has one and highly recommends it. They can be had in that price range used.

madmax

falconcry72 wrote: »

Alright guys, thanks to all for the thoughtful suggestions. I love learning about new gear, and it seems at this price point there is A LOT of competition, which is good thing.

Something to think about at this point is used or new. I suggest used. You can pick one up, try it and sell it for the same amount. This allows you to keep going until you find that perfect sound. The other option is new, obviously. Once you purchase it don't expect to get more than 60% of its value when you sell it. If it was the right choice then great. Some who insist on new equipment do the used thing and once they find the winner they sell it and buy a new one. Truthfully it doesn't really matter after it sits in your rack for a week.

thsmith

+1 ^^^^^^^^^^

falconcry72

The models I'm looking at are OOP, so new is out of the question.

In my entire 2-channel system, which consists of about 13 pieces, the only ones I bought new were the V-Link and Signal Cable IC's.

falconcry72

So about the ARC LS line:

It looks like the LS-15 and 16 used (4) 6922's, then for the 16 mkii they switched to (2) 6H30's. The 17 also uses (2) 6H30's.

Is there a big difference in sound quality between these two different tubes and designs?

Is it worth the extra cheddar for a 16ii or 17 vs. a 15?


A pair of Magnepan 3.6's just landed in my lap, so I feel the need now more than ever to upgrade my preamp; ironically, I now have less cash than ever to spend on one. :frown:

vc69

I cannot compare the LS15 to a SP16II per say, but I can compare the LS25 to a 26 and the difference was stunning. Frankly, When I had the 25 in house, I was never really "satisfied" and kept going back to my old VTL 2.5. I could never really put my finger on why 25 didn't cut it except to say that the VTL just sounded better. Better midrange and sparkle, a bit flubbier on the low end perhaps. The LS25 was just dry and lifeless. No dimensionality. The soundstage was wide but shallow.
Lately I have had a LS26 in the rack and it is everything the 25 was not and more. The internals are very different. The sound is very smooth, silky and warm and tight. The soundstage is 3 dimensional and lifelike. The LS26 definitely peeled back another layer of the shroud. I have yet to miss the 2.5 in the mix.

I don't know if that helps you any but there you go. I will say that for my personal taste, the VTL 2.5 is hard to beat fro twice the coin. It can be had for around 750 - 900 and would be a huge step up from your Parasound.

/.02

heiney9

6H30's tend to have a more solid state presentation rather than the typical tube presentation. They are little less 3D (euphoric) and more linear than say a 6922 or 12AX7, etc. If your other gear is already leaning on more of an SS presentation the 6H30's won't help you get a more tubey presentation.

Of course I have never heard that particular pre-amp, just going on examples of BAT gear thay use the 6H30 and what other things I've read about its use.

YMMV

H9

falconcry72

heiney9 wrote: »

6H30's tend to have a more solid state presentation rather than the typical tube presentation. They are little less 3D (euphoric) and more linear than say a 6922 or 12AX7, etc. If your other gear is already leaning on more of an SS presentation the 6H30's won't help you get a more tubey presentation.

Of course I have never heard that particular pre-amp, just going on examples of BAT gear thay use the 6H30 and what other things I've read about its use.

YMMV

H9

hmm. From your insight into the tube differences, and a few reviews I found elsewhere, it seems like the LS-15 will be tubier, warmer, and more liquid, while the LS-17 will be clearer and more transparent.

I want tuby. I want warmth. I want liquidity. My 3.6's demand it, especially in my too-small, too-bright room. My amp is not particularly warm sounding either.

falconcry72

TroyD wrote: »

Dodd Battery if you can find it....

There's one on the 'gon for 1600. Comes with a stupid generic remote instead of the awesome wood remote that it should have.

What else can you tell me about it?

falconcry72

So I've got it narrowed to the ARC LS-15 (or 16 mk1) or SP-16.

Again, the main difference appears to lie in the tubes:

LS-15: (4) 6922's in the audio circuit, solid state power supply.

SP-16: (3) 12Ax7's used for both the audio circuit and gain. If I got the non-"L" version, there would be an additional (3) 12Ax7's for the phono section.


Having a phono section is not going to sway me one way or the other, so it's really about these preamps as linestages.

I'm assuming that the SP-16 will sound tubier, based on it having tube-based gain, but I have no idea if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I have no experience with these or any other tubes.

Any help here is appreciated.

Thanks,

Ben

heiney9

Be sure and do your research on 6922 tubes, it seems many out there don't think all that highly of them as an audio tube. Don't take my word for it however because that is one tube I have not done much research on.

I think in the end you'll find a larger variety of 12AX7 and variant tubes, so you have more flexibility when tube rolling, more options and choices.

just my .02c

H9