Time to Divorce?

elmobo

..hhmm..is that so? maybe I'm just too premature to have this.. but It's good to know it while I'm still young and to have that knowledge too.

George Grand

headrott wrote: »

Are you saying there is no (domestic) wisdom to be dispensed George?

Greg

No. What I'm saying is this ain't "Hey, my water heater....", "Hey, any good stereo shops in..."

It's a private affair between two individuals, neither of whom you know in the slightest, and have only heard from one of those two people.

Flush this thing.

Gavin.Wright

Wow - what have I started here? Good advice from everyone, but I think this thread has gotten a bit off topic. Thanks for all the responses.

rooftop59

I am sorry but it cannot possibly be true that everyone here has offered good advice - the law of non-contradiction simply excludes that possibility.

My advice (which of course is good ;-) - Go talk to a real person, preferably a therapist, a minister, and/or most importantly your wife!

Paul

rebuy

No more info on your dirty laundry? See what a couple of questions can do here, you have them all worked up...:eek:

wayne3burk

I always told my daughters that they should never get married - that they should sign 4 yr renewable, renegotiable contracts....

So if things didn't work out the contract could expire and they could just walk away - or even cancel the contract before it ran it's course.

The older daughter is in the process of getting a divorce after 2 yrs of marraige (after a short 6 months of dating and knowing each other before the marraige).

The other one is coming up on her 2 year wedding anniversary and 10 yr anniversary of their first date.

My wife and I had our 30th anniversary last February. Marriage is never easy - it's hard work and hard choices and if anyone's been married for 30 yrs and never considered divorce then they're luckier than me.

When someone asks me if I'm happily married, I used to joke yeah - I've been happily married for 4 years, out of about 10.

well good luck

should i stay or should i go now....

polkfarmboy

Gavin.Wright wrote: »

Wow - what have I started here? Good advice from everyone, but I think this thread has gotten a bit off topic. Thanks for all the responses.

Gavin the answer you seek lies in the question you have asked

nooshinjohn

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Gavin the answer you seek lies in the question you have asked

PFB... Shaolin Master.:rolleyes:

DMara

There you go, having the nerve to ask these CP lunatics about love & life, like they'll be able to help you at all Have you seen them in real action yet? Go read their amp-cable wars, that'll teach you more about divorcing than asking them a straight question :biggrin:

headrott

newrival wrote: »

No, I'm sorry, it's not fact, It is anecdotal. The times may be 'achangin hyuk hyuk, but that doesn't connote the quality of change. Some may say that it is a change for the better. There are some that look to the past with rose colored glasses and reminisce of days of milk and honey that never existed.

If we agree that the times they are a changin', then you must realise that either the change was for the better or for the worse, correct? It can't really be both regardless of peoples' views upon it. Either people are happier as a whole (society) or they are less happy as a whole. Which is it? That answer is absolutely not anecdotal evidence, but fact.

newrival wrote: »

You looking around at all of societies domestic woes and blaming it on the whipper snappers and their hippie views of marriage [not a quote] is a prime example of the fallacy of the simple cause. It's a far more complex issue; That is, Unless you and a couple others here have it all figured out already.

Most would consider me a "whipper snapper" as I am 38, and as far as "hippie views" I would say that people at least during the "hippie period" (i.e. 1966 to 1975 roughly) were at least trying to understand what their (as a society) intentions were as a whole. Of course, this could not be said for every person, but the average person was trying to learn and understand how things worked. Today's society (on average) the same can not be said. Also, I never said that "hippies" ruined marriage because of their views on it. I will not try to tell you I know and understand everything. I absolutely do not. But, I do understand some things regarding people and how and why they react to things as they do (in a general sense of course, not necessarily specifics).

newrival wrote: »

I would bet you could do all kinds of statistics that show a correlation between divorce and societal problems. However, correlation does not prove causality. Moreover, correlation doesn't even prove there is a relation greater than circumstantial chance, and even less so, establish the directional flow of cause/effect.

In my opionion, statistics should not be used to show or "prove" anything regarding human behavior. Why? Because people can react irrationally and that itself would skew those statistics towards the irrational. People reacting as animals and lower behaviorally should not be "the norm". That was my point above. When people are not satisfied (happy), that is when they react irrationally. The more dissatisfied (or less happy) they are, the more irrationally (and extreme) they react. Even to the point of shooting their family and themselves as was brought up earlier. These behaviors are absolutely not brought on by "circumstantial chance". I can establish a direct
flow of these behaviors from parents to children, passed down from generation to generation. When a person or people are unhappy, one way
of dealing with this felling is to pass that unhappiness on to the people around you. This does not make the person that is unhappy more happy, but can certainly make the person who is more happy, unhappy (or less happy). However, that does not mean that the child cannot recognize his/her continuance of unhappiness, understand why he/she is unhappy and realize what is needed to make them happy and do it to allow themseves to be happy.

We can debate all day what makes people happy. I'm sure there are many
many ideas about that. I believe I have some understanding of what is
needed to be happy. However, I will not try to convince anyone of that
understanding.

Greg

headrott

George Grand wrote: »

No. What I'm saying is this ain't "Hey, my water heater....", "Hey, any good stereo shops in..."

It's a private affair between two individuals, neither of whom you know in the slightest, and have only heard from one of those two people.

Flush this thing.

Understood George. But, happiness is derived from a common source to all people. Conversely, unhappiness is derived the lack of that source. If, in fact it is from a common source that makes people happy (or lack of that source to make them unhappy) then we can apply that (in a general sense, of course) to all cases of unhappiness. You cannot get too specific, especially when you don't know the specifics of what is going on (as you stated) and I agree with you.

Greg

Melz709

i have been watching this thread. i dint claim to have the answer, or even the right advice. what i have...is the experience.

i got divorced.

i didnt start out that way. our problems initially started outas a seperation. we decided that we could not solve out problems living together, so i moved out. we spent the next year was spent arguing, talking, screaming and questioning. we didn know what the hell went wrong, but we realized that we still wanted to be together...we worked it out and i moved back.

i was happy for 3months.

when is it time to divorce? after that month, there was no definitive answer, " i got divorced because...".

it was time to divorce because i FELT nothing...and that vacuum is your answer. when you feel nithing about you surroundings, no anger, happiness, dispair...nothing, then its time to go. i moved out and, as i drove away i instantly felt something...relief, and i knew it was the right decision.

im happy. and i was worried that maybe that was not real.

it was, and still is.

bobman1235

headrott wrote: »

If we agree that the times they are a changin', then you must realise that either the change was for the better or for the worse, correct? It can't really be both regardless of peoples' views upon it. Either people are happier as a whole (society) or they are less happy as a whole. Which is it? That answer is absolutely not anecdotal evidence, but fact.

I believe this is an inherently flawed view. Why does societal change have to correlate to some change in general "happiness" level? Every change is likely going to make some people less happy and others more happy; measuring the balance of those immeasurable qualities is impossible.

A lot of people look at the 50's as a paradigm of the family unit in America, but that doesn't mean all families were happy, just that they were together. Women in particular had a defined role that they were not allowed to break out of, and no matter what her husband did she was stuck. So yeah, considering this board and this thread is 99.9% male, obviously that sounds like an awesome setup; I'm guessing most women would be much happier living in 2011 than 1955.

All those kids who grew up with those parents with perfect idyllic families in the 50's and 60's are the adults that are all miserable, getting divorced, and going through therapy right now, so obviously growing up in that environment didn't create a perfect generation, did it?

cfrizz

bobman1235 wrote: »

I believe this is an inherently flawed view. Why does societal change have to correlate to some change in general "happiness" level? Every change is likely going to make some people less happy and others more happy; measuring the balance of those immeasurable qualities is impossible.

A lot of people look at the 50's as a paradigm of the family unit in America, but that doesn't mean all families were happy, just that they were together. Women in particular had a defined role that they were not allowed to break out of, and no matter what her husband did she was stuck. So yeah, considering this board and this thread is 99.9% male, obviously that sounds like an awesome setup; I'm guessing most women would be much happier living in 2011 than 1955.

All those kids who grew up with those parents with perfect idyllic families in the 50's and 60's are the adults that are all miserable, getting divorced, and going through therapy right now, so obviously growing up in that environment didn't create a perfect generation, did it?

Outstanding post Bob, and right on the money. I like having my freedom, I like having my own money, I like being independent.

Any woman who is looking for some man to take care of her in this day & age is an idiot. Since 9 times out of 10 they won't do so, or if they do, there will be strings attached that aren't worth the price.

You couldn't pay me to want to be trapped in the 50's, I value my independence too much for that.

nooshinjohn

cfrizz wrote: »

You couldn't pay me to want to be trapped in the 50's, I value my independence too much for that.

If at any time your spouse makes you feel this way, you picked the wrong one to be with. Marriages fail because people these days are all about themselves. Each day when I wake up, I ask myself what one thing can I do today to make my wife smile and fortunately she does the same for me. We put each other first, and we each have our independence because of that. We respect each other and because of that respect, we would never allow a thought to come into our head that would break the trust we have for each other. Because we trust each other, we are free to live lives that allow us to persue our dreams and goals together as any couple should.

There are days when I have to be the rock and days where she is. She is also the perfect counterbalance, in that she is strong in areas that I am not, and I am strong in the ways she is not. People seem to forget that life is not supposed to be an easy task, but to share that journey with one that is uniquely different than you, and yet so very much the same makes it all worthwhile.

I love my wife, and I place her above all else. I truly believe that if people took the commitments they make to the ones they profess to love more seriously, the world would be a better place.

Marriage is not an institution we should see as a place to suffocate, grow old and die. Rather we see it as a safe place to spread your wings and soar higher than you could ever do alone. It should also be that safe haven where you can rest and recover from the garbage the world throws your way.

I may be a hopeless romantic in these thoughts... but by believing in them and never waivering, I am blessed to have found my huckleberry.

I should also point out that I also have in my past, a failed marriage. The reasons for the failure is that I did not live up to my principles, made poor choices and did not have the courage to stand on my own. My relationship defined me and not the other way around.

bobman1235

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Marriage is not an institution we should see as a place to suffocate, grow old and die. Rather we see it as a safe place to spread your wings and soar higher than you could ever do alone. It should also be that safe haven where you can rest and recover from the garbage the world throws your way.

I should also point out that I also have in my past, a failed marriage. The reasons for the failure is that I did not live up to my principles, made poor choices and did not have the courage to stand on my own. My relationship defined me and not the other way around.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I see marriage as that. I'm just a realist, and realize that we all make mistakes, and where in the past these mistakes were irreversible, now they are not. You yourself once made a mistake, so you can't at the same time say "marriages fail because kids these days rabble rabble." You can say "marriages fail because people make mistakes, like I once did, and they learn from them."

TECHNOKID

I should also point out that I also have in my past, a failed marriage. The reasons for the failure is that I did not live up to my principles, made poor choices and did not have the courage to stand on my own. My relationship defined me and not the other way around.

Your statement above is key to the way this discussion has evolved. Most people do not realize that by running away from the relationship (mariage) they are actually trying to run away from themselves. By getting a divorce, you are not solving the problem as the problem is within you and until you solve the problem that is within you you will more likely repeat the same from one relation to the other relation.

" You can say "marriages fail because people make mistakes, like I once did, and they learn from them."

IMHO, the mistake that is made is not having the courage, patience and willingness of making the mariage a success despite the ups and downs. IMHO, many mariages break down are caused over simple childish disagreement rather than serious partner behavior(s) (generally speaking, we all know there are exceptions).

Why would it be worse with the newer generation? My guess is I must admit my generation might not have been the greatest example and the younger generation is drawing the conclusion that mariage is not worth the efort. Yet again, one must realize that after a break up the issues and/or problems are far from being resolved as they are within you and will more likely be repeated from relation to relation. To back this up, nowadays you are not talking only 1 bad mariage but rather failed relation after failed relation. Again, the only mistake is the "lack of courage + lack of patience + willingness to make it work which IMHO is = to lack of love + commitment to selfishness.

So, here is a question, why would people waste time and energy getting married? Why not simply live their affairs until they tire of them, let them run their course and save them selves a whole lot of problems acting this way? Why making a lifetime commitment if one believes it simply like a job that has no future and that is bound to be replaced as you grow and are more markettage? Or maybe like your electronics, you start with a budget rig with the intention of upgrading as you tire of the present one?

Is a wedding simply to buy a glamourous evening with wedding dress and toxedo? Why bother, if the commitment has only the value of a love affair why waste the money for a wedding and an eventual divorce? Sorry but IMHO, this is PI$$ POOR management of one's finance and emotional state, right?