Martin Logan Vantage vs. RTi12

Sherardp

I'm always looking for the next best thing. Being overseas sometimes makes it hard though. I'm considering a speaker upgrade and would buy these next month while stateside and ship them. That said how would the ML Vantage perform against my current 12's. Are they easy to hook up with having a powered sub? I would just be upgrading the front end. Thoughts/advise appreciated.

BlueFox

I have no experience at all with this subject, but I can talk about it. :biggrin:

Why are you interested in electro-static speakers?

I became interested when I kept reading great review of the Magnepan 3.7. I am looking to upgrade my 2 channel speakers, and my first reaction is to get a conventional box speaker. However, now that I have seen all the positive press about the 3.7 speakers I need to do more research. The biggest negative in the reviews is that the speaker is great down to 40Hz.

http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_37

Having the woofer built in as part of the speaker seems to be the solution to low freq response with electro-statics. What are you looking for with the Vantage?
http://www.martinlogan.com/products/vantage

Sherardp

With the Vantage I was looking for a speaker that would be equal or better than the RTi12 in HT and 2 channel listening. In a theater environment I would like for it to play well and give me plenty of detail in the front soundstage. The price of them for a pair, roughly 2K-2500 on the used market make them easily obtainable and worth the try. My only regard, is that like you Bluefox I have no experience with them, nor do I know what to expect.

They seem well regarded around here, so I figured I can't go wrong for the price.

leroyjr1

Look at Def Tech Mythos ST. It's a upgrade from your 12's and its a dual purpose speaker.

mantis

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Look at Def Tech Mythos ST. It's a upgrade from your 12's and its a dual purpose speaker.

Strong Ditto on that as well as the Mythos STS.

As far as the Vantage series from Martin Logan , yes they are very nice and are a ugh upgrade over your 12's. They have a more balanced soundstage and depth. Clarity is huge here. They are a very nice well rounded music / Theater speaker.
But are they right for you? You must go listen to them.

So also check out the Definitive Technology line. The Mythos series are a excellent upgrade for anyone currently using polk RT anything series speakers. They have the ability to explode when called upon yet can make you cry when your favorite song comes on.

There are so many speakers out there to choose from it's extremely hard to choose just one. But for your needs I would go with this package to replace yours.
Definitive Technology

Fronts-BP8080ST.
These have built in subs and have a Mythos type musical ability. They fill the room with incredible sound that comes from everywhere. For theater I'm really loving them. I find them to be one of the very best floor standing 3000.00 and under speaker I have ever heard.

Center-CS8080HD.
Breath taking is all I can say. I'm bringing one home myself to see how it mates directly compared to my Mythos 10 for my Mythos system. From what I was told from Def Tech , this center will mate perfectly with the Mythos series. I have Installed it with BP so far and it's amazing. It's a killer center also with a built in powered subwoofer. It's about as punchy and clear as it gets. For it's price It's really leading the class. Truly exceptional.

Surrounds-SR8080BP.
These are incredible. I was shocked when I put them in how damn dynamic they are. They really throw out a huge wall of sound and deep clarity. Thrilling and involving yet don't call any attention to themselves. They do their job extremely well as they fool you into believing what's going on on screen or off it happening in your room. Very believable.

Surround back-DI5.5LCR.
Dude , you want surround back? Look no further. These speakers are so impressive they make me laugh every single time I Install them. I can't believe how damn good they really are. They will give you a cleaner look then your current on wall approach with those ugly **** wall brackets not to mention these will go inside the wall for a superior clean look. Not only will they look sexy , they will bring you to the point of "why didn't I get these before?".

So thats the system I would propose to you IF you want to stay floor standing and all. I would go all In wall in theater was your game. I would build you a superior in wall system that would blow your mind and clean up your theater room look. I would also run at least 2 or 4 In wall subs to balance out the bass response in your very nice theater room. Wish you lived closer I would love to Spec , Install and calibrate it for you.

Good luck bro with the upgrade. If you need anything don't hesitate to ask.

falconcry72

BlueFox wrote: »

Why are you interested in electro-static speakers?

I became interested when I kept reading great review of the Magnepan 3.7. I am looking to upgrade my 2 channel speakers...

Just a quick fyi: Magnepans are not electro-stats.

But if you're looking for good 2 channel speakers, they're definitely worth a listen. Nothing else sounds like a Magnepan.

Sherardp

Going to have to figure out getting the best deal on the 8080STs. All the others should be with ease. PM me a smoking deal on those fronts Mantis. We can talk shipping also, using my own UPS account.

Poee7R

For 2ch the RTi's could not come near the Vantage'. But Im thinking you could say the same when it comes to the RTi's and the impact required for HT.

With a good sub the ML's would be fine for HT, but probably not perfect. I have not heard the Def Techs, but I would think it hard for them to keep up with the ML's in a 2ch rig, but they (Mythos) would probably walk them in HT. Then again the speed of a panel makes the reality of sound efx great.

For me the ML's wouldnt be a second thought, and would be on the way already. Ive been into stats for a few years now and Ill always have a pair in the main rig. Life is great without tweeters. :biggrin:


Dave

leroyjr1

Sherardp wrote: »

Going to have to figure out getting the best deal on the 8080STs. All the others should be with ease. PM me a smoking deal on those fronts Mantis. We can talk shipping also, using my own UPS account.

I'd take the Mythos over the New Bi-Polars.

polkfarmboy

The ML vantage would kill the mythos for music in the airy transparent sound or the mids .The way the martin logan reproduces the human voice is second to none and once you have them in your rig for a while its almost impossible to go back to listening to any other speaker . So many people listen to an electrostat for 5 minutes in a store improperly setup and make there assumptions . If the mythos was that great then Why is mantis wanting to get rid of his and get something else ? The maggies are quite good but the lack the mids that the logans give you but I only heard the 1.7's

I have read about alot of guys saying how the vantage in a smaller room giving the spires and summit a run for there money and the bigger boys only having the real advantage in a huge room .The problem with electrostats is that you will want more more more as its addictive

The vantage is the choice for HT by many logan users because of the powerd woofers and the awesome bass control thats adjustable on the back of the speaker . The powerd woofer makes them very easy to drive with little power and you get a front row seat when listening to concert music with just a few watts brining out all of the details instead of having to crank it up , try that with the mythos .The vista is the same speaker but even with high end amps costing thousands cant get them to sing in the bass department like the vantage

The mythos will win for bass but they wont be as musical or acurite in that department . If you have a sub then they will blow them out of the water

Here is a problem I see for you and had the same prob myself. I had a csi5 with my ML source se and the sound was worlds apart and not a good integration .I went out and bought the matinee center channel and I lost the bass that I got from my beloved csi5 and prefferd it to my matinee for movies so I had to fork out the cash for the Stage center channel .If you go for vantage then ML recomends the motif , same speaker as the stage but it has aluminum cones instead of paper like the matinee . I still cant see the motif being that much better but never listened to it . So for the center you could go with the ML theater and thats going to cost between $800 -$1200 so it gets expensive fast but let me just say its well worth the money

Many people say ML are just for music but how many of them have actually had a chance to sit through hundreds of movies and try it out .Nearly every logan owner would never go back to the norm for HT . If you dont want to spend thousands of dollars then I would not go down the path of electrostats

nooshinjohn

polkfarmboy wrote: »

The maggies are quite good but the lack the mids that the logans give you but I only heard the 1.7's

My MMG's are not lacking in the mid department, so either you are talking out your $#@ again or you don't have a clue about what you are listening for. I have heard the Vantage's set up in the affore-mentioned poor quality listening room, and they sounded like crap. The sales-dude and I spent just a few minutes moving them to a better room and positioning them. The next thing that happened was pure audio bliss. They were being driven beautifully by a set of Mcintosh MC501's, and the sound was spectacular. These are a definite step up from the RTi12's.


I would say grab them and don't look back... or wait for a set of the new LSiM's to come your way.

leroyjr1

polkfarmboy wrote: »

The ML vantage would kill the mythos for music in the airy transparent sound or the mids .The way the martin logan reproduces the human voice is second to none and once you have them in your rig for a while its almost impossible to go back to listening to any other speaker . So many people listen to an electrostat for 5 minutes in a store improperly setup and make there assumptions . If the mythos was that great then Why is mantis wanting to get rid of his and get something else ? The maggies are quite good but the lack the mids that the logans give you but I only heard the 1.7's

I have read about alot of guys saying how the vantage in a smaller room giving the spires and summit a run for there money and the bigger boys only having the real advantage in a huge room .The problem with electrostats is that you will want more more more as its addictive

The vantage is the choice for HT by many logan users because of the powerd woofers and the awesome bass control thats adjustable on the back of the speaker . The powerd woofer makes them very easy to drive with little power and you get a front row seat when listening to concert music with just a few watts brining out all of the details instead of having to crank it up , try that with the mythos .The vista is the same speaker but even with high end amps costing thousands cant get them to sing in the bass department like the vantage

The mythos will win for bass but they wont be as musical or acurite in that department . If you have a sub then they will blow them out of the water

Here is a problem I see for you and had the same prob myself. I had a csi5 with my ML source se and the sound was worlds apart and not a good integration .I went out and bought the matinee center channel and I lost the bass that I got from my beloved csi5 and prefferd it to my matinee for movies so I had to fork out the cash for the Stage center channel .If you go for vantage then ML recomends the motif , same speaker as the stage but it has aluminum cones instead of paper like the matinee . I still cant see the motif being that much better but never listened to it . So for the center you could go with the ML theater and thats going to cost between $800 -$1200 so it gets expensive fast but let me just say its well worth the money

Many people say ML are just for music but how many of them have actually had a chance to sit through hundreds of movies and try it out .Nearly every logan owner would never go back to the norm for HT . If you dont want to spend thousands of dollars then I would not go down the path of electrostats

Have you even heard the Mythos line or are you just assuming?

nooshinjohn

PFB's entire post looks like he copied it from somewhere, except the points where he inserts opinion based upon what he read...

polkfarmboy

Hmm john I live in maggie country so you dont have to be so harsh with your reply as its just my opinion. I am not saying maggies lack the mids I am saying they lack the lower mids that the logans have making them sound kinda thin in comparison .This is especialy true with the mmg's as they have a very small soundstage(joke) . I take it as a compliment that you said I copied my post from some place .You sound really defensive and angry because I dont think the maggies are up to snuff for my preferance

Lee when I was first auditioning speakers the mythos was one of the first recomendation I was given to go out and have a listen .I am not saying they are bad I am saying that the vantages are by far the better speaker and more accurate but accuracy isnt what many prefer .I think the Logans have a really quick off the mark sound when hearing gun shot but the mythos has a better sound when it comes to a building explosion because they have more oomph but thats what a subs for

If I was gona buy a new set of speakers then my choice would be either the Vantage of the new polks that are coming out

leroyjr1

polkfarmboy wrote: »

So many people listen to an electrostat for 5 minutes in a store improperly setup and make there assumptions

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Lee when I was first auditioning speakers the mythos was one of the first recomendation I was given to go out and have a listen

^^^^ I hope you spent more than 5 min.

polkfarmboy

leroyjr1 wrote: »

^^^^ I hope you spent more than 5 min.

I confess it was a short demo and never got to hear them powered with the whole works ,high end components and cables etc .The whole comparison isnt fair to do though as both speakers are completely diff animals . Electrostats can do things other speakers cant and its the whole apples to oranges as they say

nooshinjohn

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I confess it was a short demo and never got to hear them powered with the whole works ,high end components and cables etc .The whole comparison isnt fair to do though as both speakers are completely diff animals . Electrostats can do things other speakers cant and its the whole apples to oranges as they say

So to translate for you, you have heard them in passing, but never stopped long enough to pay attention? Does that sum it up correctly.


Seems to me then that your opinions and input on the subject are irrelevant, Thanks for playing.

Johnny, what parting gifts do we have for PFB? Anything but cuttlery please.:rolleyes:

polkfarmboy

nooshinjohn wrote: »

So to translate for you, you have heard them in passing, but never stopped long enough to pay attention? Does that sum it up correctly.


Seems to me then that your opinions and input on the subject are irrelevant, Thanks for playing.

Johnny, what parting gifts do we have for PFB? Anything but cuttlery please.:rolleyes:

I heard them long enough to know that there are complete differences in the way they sounded and I choose ML source from the same seller that I demo'd the mythos at .I got my ML's home and knew I made the right choice .You sound like the type of guy who sits down to pee as you cant respond without whining

mantis

polkfarmboy wrote: »

The ML vantage would kill the mythos for music in the airy transparent sound or the mids .The way the martin logan reproduces the human voice is second to none and once you have them in your rig for a while its almost impossible to go back to listening to any other speaker . So many people listen to an electrostat for 5 minutes in a store improperly setup and make there assumptions . If the mythos was that great then Why is mantis wanting to get rid of his and get something else ? The maggies are quite good but the lack the mids that the logans give you but I only heard the 1.7's

I have read about alot of guys saying how the vantage in a smaller room giving the spires and summit a run for there money and the bigger boys only having the real advantage in a huge room .The problem with electrostats is that you will want more more more as its addictive

The vantage is the choice for HT by many logan users because of the powerd woofers and the awesome bass control thats adjustable on the back of the speaker . The powerd woofer makes them very easy to drive with little power and you get a front row seat when listening to concert music with just a few watts brining out all of the details instead of having to crank it up , try that with the mythos .The vista is the same speaker but even with high end amps costing thousands cant get them to sing in the bass department like the vantage

The mythos will win for bass but they wont be as musical or acurite in that department . If you have a sub then they will blow them out of the water

Here is a problem I see for you and had the same prob myself. I had a csi5 with my ML source se and the sound was worlds apart and not a good integration .I went out and bought the matinee center channel and I lost the bass that I got from my beloved csi5 and prefferd it to my matinee for movies so I had to fork out the cash for the Stage center channel .If you go for vantage then ML recomends the motif , same speaker as the stage but it has aluminum cones instead of paper like the matinee . I still cant see the motif being that much better but never listened to it . So for the center you could go with the ML theater and thats going to cost between $800 -$1200 so it gets expensive fast but let me just say its well worth the money

Many people say ML are just for music but how many of them have actually had a chance to sit through hundreds of movies and try it out .Nearly every logan owner would never go back to the norm for HT . If you dont want to spend thousands of dollars then I would not go down the path of electrostats

Sound reproduction is a very personal experience. I'm a fan of Martin Logan as well as Definitive Technology. In my opinion the Vantage will have some problems competing with the Mythos ST's. I never had them side by side but would love to do so. They are a remarkable speaker but so is the Mythos ST. I have listened to them many times on some very different gear. I walked away pleased and thought they would make a nice sit down and relax jazz speaker. I can see many things going right with the ML's.

As far as me getting rid of the Mythos ST's? Not happening. I demo'd many speakers and came home loving my ST's. They are here to stay for a very long time. I had them for about 2 years now and have no desire anymore to move them. A guy made me a very attractive offer but I turned it down and decided to keep them. They are that good at music and movies. They really don't do anything wrong and do so many things right. The longer I have them the more I love them.

SRTer

Nooshinjonh and Polkfarmboy, keep em above the belt. Too many low blows.

Well, I have heard the Martin Logans and the Def Techs and I would say that the Martin Logans sounded better and I love the design.

However, I found the ML to be very directional. They had to be toed in. And one would have to be sitting in the sweet spot which I thought was pretty narrow.

The Def Tech gave a omnipresent sound which was very pleasing but didn't sound as accurate as the ML. It seemed to mid range heavy. Looks don't mean much but I don't like the Def Tech over the ML in looks.

I personal ended up with RTi A9's and A7's when it was all said and done. I felt the ML's would be best for a 2 channel music setup and the Def Tech for HT. I though I could get a little of both from the RTi A setup.

I would like to think I didn't end up with junk, but I hear everyone in this thread saying that Def Tech and ML's are worlds way from the RTi12/RTi A9 speakers. Therefore, I'm sadden by these statements. I guess I'm off to B&W for my two channel build sometime next year if I can pull the Minh together.

polkfarmboy

SRTer wrote: »

Nooshinjonh and Polkfarmboy, keep em above the belt. Too many low blows.

Well, I have heard the Martin Logans and the Def Techs and I would say that the Martin Logans sounded better and I love the design.

However, I found the ML to be very directional. They had to be toed in. And one would have to be sitting in the sweet spot which I thought was pretty narrow.

The Def Tech gave a omnipresent sound which was very pleasing but didn't sound as accurate as the ML. It seemed to mid range heavy. Looks don't mean much but I don't like the Def Tech over the ML in looks.

I personal ended up with RTi A9's and A7's when it was all said and done. I felt the ML's would be best for a 2 channel music setup and the Def Tech for HT. I though I could get a little of both from the RTi A setup.

I would like to think I didn't end up with junk, but I hear everyone in this thread saying that Def Tech and ML's are worlds way from the RTi12/RTi A9 speakers. Therefore, I'm sadden by these statements. I guess I'm off to B&W for my two channel build sometime next year if I can pull the Minh together.

You have some great speakers and yes they are worlds apart comparing the vantages to rti12 would be the same as comparing rti8 to the martin logan source. I own both the source and rti8 and I love them both for different reasons and use them for 2 totally different applications

Maybe you should keep the rti setup for movies and music and buy a set of logans for some music .This review of the new electromotion might have you thinking about the above suggestion .here is what hometheaterreview had to say about them http://hometheaterreview.com/martinlogan-electromotion-loudspeaker-reviewed/

If you are going to spend $2400 then you could fork out an extra hundered for these puppies . This is an offering from one of the guys formerly at polk and def tech http://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-two-tower

What really gets me interested in the Electromotion speakers is that they dont have any binding posts

SRTer

nooshinjohn wrote: »

My MMG's are not lacking in the mid department, so either you are talking out your $#@ again or you don't have a clue about what you are listening for. I have heard the Vantage's set up in the affore-mentioned poor quality listening room, and they sounded like crap. The sales-dude and I spent just a few minutes moving them to a better room and positioning them. The next thing that happened was pure audio bliss. They were being driven beautifully by a set of Mcintosh MC501's, and the sound was spectacular. These are a definite step up from the RTi12's.


I would say grab them and don't look back... or wait for a set of the new LSiM's to come your way.

Now this is interesting. My neighbor just had me over to hear his Maggies. I really liked them. He is running a Denon AVR with a Emotiva XPA-2 which should be making 500 watts because his Maggies are 4 ohms with a 86 sensitivity.

He complained that they didn't make enough bass even with the amp. Then I had him over to listen to my RTi A9's in stereo and RTi A9 front, and RTi A7 rears, CSi A6 on the Pio Elite SC-35.

Unless he wanted me to feel good with my junk, he praised the sound and repeatedly asked how much power was I running. He thought the bass and mids where rich and full in 2 channel without running my powered sub.

He has bought a sub from Emotiva to add to the Maggies but he was impressed at the RTi A9 sound against his Maggies and power sub.

nooshinjohn

SRTer wrote: »

Now this is interesting. My neighbor just had me over to hear his Maggies. I really liked them. He is running a Denon AVR with a Emotiva XPA-2 which should be making 500 watts because his Maggies are 4 ohms with a 86 sensitivity.

He complained that they didn't make enough bass even with the amp. Then I had him over to listen to my RTi A9's in stereo and RTi A9 front, and RTi A7 rears, CSi A6 on the Pio Elite SC-35.

Unless he wanted me to feel good with my junk, he praised the sound and repeatedly asked how much power was I running. He thought the bass and mids where rich and full in 2 channel without running my powered sub.

He has bought a sub from Emotiva to add to the Maggies but he was impressed at the RTi A9 sound against his Maggies and power sub.

I wonder if he would get more out of his with better amplification. I have found that my little MMG's love tubes more than SS. I will need to take back the MC275 sometime next week, but thank god there is a trip to Snohomish in my future.

SRTer

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I wonder if he would get more out of his with better amplification. I have found that my little MMG's love tubes more than SS. I will need to take back the MC275 sometime next week, but thank god there is a trip to Snohomish in my future.

I would love to see tubes on them Maggies too. However, it should not help the low end because they seem to be rated to play down to 40ish hertzs. Therefore, one would more and likely find a powered sub necessary even in 2 channel.

I know many people love and hate Emotiva, but with 500 watts, I don't think tubes are going to add much more current without spending the price of a used car to help the lower end.

The Maggies were super clean and accurate.

Sherardp

I thought the Golden Ear Tritons were similar to the new Polks. I may just wait and buy the new Polks. Not sure about price, but I have 4K in hand right now and can add to that if need be. I have seem some awesome deals on the Def Tech stuff and the Logans via Audiogon. I would love to hear the Def Techs, but neither are out here in Japan. So I'm stuck, give me something to work with guys.

I can even keep what I have and still be ok, just thought I would venture off and see what's out there though.

nooshinjohn

If you don't have a rush on figuring out what to grab, the 707's will be demo'd and reviewed within the next couple weeks. I think they will give the ML's a big fight, as they certainly look the part now. If not the LSiM's, I would still go ML over the RTi's

polkfarmboy

Sherardp wrote: »

I thought the Golden Ear Tritons were similar to the new Polks. I may just wait and buy the new Polks. Not sure about price, but I have 4K in hand right now and can add to that if need be. I have seem some awesome deals on the Def Tech stuff and the Logans via Audiogon. I would love to hear the Def Techs, but neither are out here in Japan. So I'm stuck, give me something to work with guys.

I can even keep what I have and still be ok, just thought I would venture off and see what's out there though.

Holy crap :eek: 4k man...... You know you could just wait it out a little and put another $400 to that amount and buy a used pair of summit .Thats some badass speakers that will pretty much destroy everything out there . I dont think you would ever wana upgrade from the under 20k market if you had those in house

When I was choosing new speakers the first thing I looked into was whats the best center channel because thats most important and its going to give a good indication of how good the HT performance can be .

I wish gordon was here to chime in as he is alot more familiar with the high end offerings from ML

Poee7R

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Holy Thats some badass speakers that will pretty much destroy everything out there . I dont think you would ever wana upgrade from the under 20k market if you had those in house

Im a ML fan, but this statement is just stupid.

You reading alot over at the ML forums lately eh?

Sherardp good luck, i dont want to muck this thread up anymore, but if I may. Since you're thinking about getting out of the box, also keep in mind brands like Quad, Innersound and Soundlab (May be hard to find at the right price with having to ship them oversea's). Any of which I would be proud to listen to day in and day out.

Would also recommend Apogee and Acoustat, but both of those would probably require maintenance at some point and with lack of parts and you being out of the country, may be hard to work with.


Dave

Sherardp

mantis wrote: »

There are so many speakers out there to choose from it's extremely hard to choose just one. But for your needs I would go with this package to replace yours.
Definitive Technology

Fronts-BP8080ST.
These have built in subs and have a Mythos type musical ability. They fill the room with incredible sound that comes from everywhere. For theater I'm really loving them. I find them to be one of the very best floor standing 3000.00 and under speaker I have ever heard.

Center-CS8080HD.
Breath taking is all I can say. I'm bringing one home myself to see how it mates directly compared to my Mythos 10 for my Mythos system. From what I was told from Def Tech , this center will mate perfectly with the Mythos series. I have Installed it with BP so far and it's amazing. It's a killer center also with a built in powered subwoofer. It's about as punchy and clear as it gets. For it's price It's really leading the class. Truly exceptional.

Surrounds-SR8080BP.
These are incredible. I was shocked when I put them in how damn dynamic they are. They really throw out a huge wall of sound and deep clarity. Thrilling and involving yet don't call any attention to themselves. They do their job extremely well as they fool you into believing what's going on on screen or off it happening in your room. Very believable.

Surround back-DI5.5LCR.
Dude , you want surround back? Look no further. These speakers are so impressive they make me laugh every single time I Install them. I can't believe how damn good they really are. They will give you a cleaner look then your current on wall approach with those ugly **** wall brackets not to mention these will go inside the wall for a superior clean look. Not only will they look sexy , they will bring you to the point of "why didn't I get these before?".

Working a killer deal from Authorized dealer on this package. The fronts are new, center demo, surrounds are demo. Everything for 2900, but I just went back and offered 2600 shipped.

mantis

Sherardp wrote: »

Working a killer deal from Authorized dealer on this package. The fronts are new, center demo, surrounds are demo. Everything for 2900, but I just went back and offered 2600 shipped.

Thats a stupid price for that system and if you can get it for that , jump right now , get in the car and drive to them. Take a boat , fly a plane , do whats necessary to get that system. The mains are 3k alone.

stuwee

Sherardp wrote: »

Working a killer deal from Authorized dealer on this package. The fronts are new, center demo, surrounds are demo. Everything for 2900, but I just went back and offered 2600 shipped.

That is a killer price, but I still would have gone with the ML's. Get the right amp and cables and man, your jaw would hit the floor, walk into the soundstage fun! I'm trying to remember my cousin's rig, big Classe' and some green Viper cable, I think?? Enjoy the new set-up, you'll be pleased