What polypropylene Caps Are Good and Cheap?

saemark30
saemark30 Posts: 146
edited February 2013 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I tried the Solen Fast caps and they are detailed but too crisp.
Any one have a better suggestion?
I'm looking for inexpensive ones that you would use on a daily basis for crossovers.
Post edited by saemark30 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
«13

Comments

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,571
    edited July 2011
    "What polypropylene Caps Are Good and Cheap?"


    Isn't that an oxymoron?

    From my lifes limited experience nothing good is cheap, and nothing cheap is good?

    Dayton comes to mind then you go to Sonicap's,Clearity and then just up in price from there.
    I've used Sonicap's and Axon and both I'm very happy with.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    What I mean is I don't need the Ferrari of polys just the Toyota equivalent.
    Something you can live with.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,571
    edited July 2011
    Oh you need Bennic then
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    Clarity Caps are a great alternative to Solen in the same price range. I've used both and the PX series is much better sounding, with the SA series being a nice step up.

    Other notables include Sonicaps which are excellent but you do pay more. I also like Auricaps but they can be pricey and not sure all values are represented very well.

    Dayton and Bennic are very average and I'd choose Clarity Caps over them and IIRc, the price differenc is minimal.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    Yes some say Bennic makes the caps for Dayton Audio.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    What Clarity Caps range would be good for 10uF crossover use?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    Bennic and Dayton are the same as are Axon and Solen.

    Typically for the older Monitor series use Clarity Caps for the high pass and Bennic/Dayton or Axon/Solen for the low pass and Mills non-inductive wire wound resistors and you are golden for a very modest budget.

    In your neck of the woods Parts Connexion is still running a 20% off sale............get to it!!!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    Another possibilty is to bypass the Solen with Auricaps.
    Maybe 10uf Solen + 0.01uF Auricap?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    saemark30 wrote: »
    Another possibilty is to bypass the Solen with Auricaps.
    Maybe 10uf Solen + 0.01uF Auricap?

    I suppose if you already have the Solens and aren't looking to spend a lot of money, otherwise just get a better "singular" cap. Many have not liked the results of using a small value bypass cap to try to enhance the performance of a poor sounding cap.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    Or bypass with polystyrene caps.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    Yep, but the same caution as I stated before bypassing a lower quality cap with a small value "better" cap. I guess you'll only know if you do it.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2011
    first impression with Obligatto's appear to be worth the money,, no too much unlike a pio cap.YMMV-good luck.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2011
    I really like entire line of Jantzen Z-Caps. A few folks here don't like the standard Z-Caps, but I like the as a budget cap and think they sound good for the price.
    Jake
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    You mean the Obligatto oil film one?
    Not bad only $11 for 10uF.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited July 2011
    saemark30 wrote: »
    Another possibilty is to bypass the Solen with Auricaps.
    Maybe 10uf Solen + 0.01uF Auricap?


    A bad idea that will result in unwanted artifacts.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited July 2011
    saemark30 wrote: »
    You mean the Obligatto oil film one?
    Not bad only $11 for 10uF.


    No, the copper or premium. They are great sounding caps, only problem is the limited values.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    So far my list of preference:
    Obbligato Gold Premium
    ClarityCaps ESA
    WIMA MKP10
    BENNIC
    SOLEN
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    Madison has these for $0.60.
    Hard to believe, can they be usable for audio?
    https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1463
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2011
    saemark30 wrote: »
    I'm looking for inexpensive ones that you would use on a daily basis for crossovers.
    http://meniscusaudio.com/capacitors-pulsex-polypropylene-c-101_104.html
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    saemark30 wrote: »
    So far my list of preference:
    Obbligato Gold Premium
    ClarityCaps ESA
    WIMA MKP10
    BENNIC
    SOLEN

    Does this list include preferences based on the values you need? I know the Obbligato and WIMA don't come in a lot of values.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    You have two threads going about the same subject, one is all you need. I recommend the Clarity Caps PX or SA line for the 12uF cap.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    Its a toss up between Obbligato Gold Premium and ClarityCaps ESA for the tweeters. not sure about the midrange, and Solen for the woofers
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    Damn, in your other thread you are talking about cheaper caps so I made my recommendation based on that. If your budget allows then by all means get the ESA caps.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    i HATE when the same person starts two threads about the same topic, it's annoying to try and keep up in both threads......I'm outta here.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    I'm new here heiney9 and must apologize for enthusiastically posting similar threads.
    ClarityCaps PX or SA would be my choice but Parts Connexion doesn't seem to have them listed.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    Tony Gee of www.HumbleHomemadehifi.com recommends bypassing with MKP1837 0.1uF capacitors on everything.
    I don't see the harm of it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited July 2011
    Ok, so you have two differing opinions. I am very familiar with that site, it's up to you to decide for yourself. Many of us here have actually tried it and didn't care for the artifacts added to the signal. Perhaps when you try it, you'll draw a different conclusion.

    If you talk to Jeff at Sonicraft he'll recommend the same thing sometimes.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited July 2011
    saemark30 wrote: »
    Tony Gee of www.HumbleHomemadehifi.com recommends bypassing with MKP1837 0.1uF capacitors on everything.
    I don't see the harm of it.

    That's true, you will not see the harm, but you will hear it.
    So why use a bypass at all? There are actually components of very high frequencies in some audio waveforms. Some are high order harmonics. If you think of a square wave, the right angles at the top of the wave are extremely high in frequency. Sometimes there are high frequency components in very fast audio sounds, for example, the instantaneous tap of a drum stick on a cymbal. These are the sounds that should be "helped" by including a small-value bypass capacitor in a high pass crossover.

    Well, I don't think so. If the 8 ?F capacitor blocks frequencies below 5000 Hz and passes frequencies above 5000 Hz, why do we need what is actually another crossover for the same tweeter, but operating at frequencies already passed by the big cap? I am sure engineers have a very good reason, and a couple of them have tried to educate me on this subject. I respect the science and electrical theory on this subject, and my technical background helps me to understand it fairly well. But there is one small problem: the bypasses all sound bad! They add a quality that at first sounds like an increase in air and detail, but after a couple of hours becomes an intrusive harshness and discontinuity in the upper treble. Remove the bypass: all of the detail is present but without that grating and annoying sound. The high frequencies are cleaner, smoother, and much more enjoyable. It doesn't matter if the bypass cap is Teflon?, polystyrene, or common polypropylene, the results are very similar. And to be avoided.

    The above comments mirror the personal experiences of myself and many others here.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited July 2011
    I hate bypass caps. Add to much garbage to the sound. Tried them on my Polk's before I knew better. They came right out.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • saemark30
    saemark30 Posts: 146
    edited July 2011
    Which tweeters did you try the bypass on? The SL2000 sounds harsh with the standard mylar caps. My plan is to replace them both.
    Not to lose focus, but I am also considering biamping as you can see in my other thread.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter