Using 5 wire component cable as interconnects?

tonyb

ROHfan wrote: »

There's measurements for everything, but sometimes our brains trick us into thinking there's a difference.

Really ? What tool do you use to measure tone ? How about soundstage width and height ? No sir, you can't measure everything in audio, but your ears can...at least in the audible range.

stuwee

+1, great read!!

ROHfan

Nah. Know what? I was showing a co-worker of mine this thread. He's one of those old school tech dinosaurs. He owns every kind of meter you can think of. If it can be tested, he's tested it (including frequency response, i.e. Tone). His response to all this was along the lines of "they probably don't have the technical experience we have so debating them is pointless." Indeed.

So, I offer an apology for my strongheadedness. Look for a Karma item in the Clubhouse section that I'll be posting later in the day.

ROHfan

Keiko wrote: »

lol! That's funny!

Not in.

Uh, you never were :rolleyes:

F1nut

ROHfan wrote: »

Nah. Know what? I was showing a co-worker of mine this thread. He's one of those old school tech dinosaurs. He owns every kind of meter you can think of. If it can be tested, he's tested it (including frequency response, i.e. Tone). His response to all this was along the lines of "they probably don't have the technical experience we have so debating them is pointless." Indeed.

I simply asked you what cables you have actually tried in your rig and all you can do is come back with that side stepping pile of poo!?! Pffft.

comfortablycurt

Ya know...I used to believe in the differences that cables made, but I really don't anymore. I think there's a difference between the quality of the crappy little spaghetti noodle cables that come with cheaper gear and actual quality cables, but beyond that? Not really.

I've been doing several cable comparisons lately between cables that I have on hand, and I honestly can't really say that I hear any kind of difference anymore. That's not to say that it isn't there, I guess I just no longer give a damn. This argument is the same every single time it occurs on here, the exact same people are involved in it and are making the exact same comments...and yet nobody every has any real NEW tangible proof/evidence one way or the other to present. Hearing all you people constantly bicker back and forth about this nonsense makes me really want to not even bother with cables so that I can completely avoid being part of this ridiculous debate.

Damn. Shut the hell up already. All of you. Some of you think cables make a difference. Some of you don't. If you hear it and want to spend an average persons annual salary on a 3' length of copper wire, fantastic...more power to you. If you don't hear the difference, congrats, you just saved a shitload of money and you now get to laugh at the guy who's spending $15,000 on that 3' length of copper wire. Agree to disagree and let this burnt the hell out topic die. You don't have to sit there and try and drill YOUR own personal opinion that YOU acquired in YOUR home with YOUR gear listening to YOUR music in YOUR own preferred manner(see how that method of argument that gets brought up 20 times in every cable debate can go both ways?) into someone elses head. Peoples opinions differ. Get the hell over it and accept that. Quit acting like whiny kids in the school yard..."I'm right", "no, I'M RIGHT!", "NO, I'M RIGHT!!!"...damn. Sometimes it feels like this forum is full of a bunch of whiny 12 year olds.

My $.02

heiney9

Curt,

You still haven't given MIT's a try, IIRC. And if you are comparing similarly priced and constructed cables, you may not hear much difference at all. I have found in my personal experience that many similar designed and constructed cables sound very similar but if you venture out to more well designed cables that have a different method of construction and higher quality materials, you start to hear differences.

Of course if you no longer care, then it's a moot point because you won't be listening for those differences.

H9

F1nut

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Ya know...I used to believe in the differences that cables made, but I really don't anymore. I think there's a difference between the quality of the crappy little spaghetti noodle cables that come with cheaper gear and actual quality cables, but beyond that? Not really.

I've been doing several cable comparisons lately between cables that I have on hand, and I honestly can't really say that I hear any kind of difference anymore. That's not to say that it isn't there, I guess I just no longer give a damn.

Sorry to read that you don't care any longer. Should I remove you from the MIT cable demo program?

dorokusai

As far as the cable debate goes. I've never understood why the first place ppl go with railing against it all is that it costs a regular persons' yearly salary, or monthly salary, or that its thousands or hundreds of dollars for every single cable, in every single instance, etc etc. Can it go that way? Of course, so can every single hobby. When did audio become any different than any other hobby in regards to extremes?

Did you know that bicycles at a normal bike shop can cost $200-4000? It's just a simple bicycle, two wheels, pedals, you get the idea. Surely you can buy one for $5 at a yard sale and I'm sure that anyone who is a cable naysayer and also an avid bicyclist that's into fitness rides that yard sale model. You don't, don't lie as that's just silly.

I've said this before but the fact remains that I didn't spend anymore than $200 for my first pair of brand new, really nice, high end, ultra fabulous, MIT Shotgun interconnects. $200 folks.

Yes, it's not pocket change but in the scheme of things that we spend money on in regards to our hobbies....how is it really that crazy when it comes to audio?

You know what? They're even cheaper used.

Guess what? Brace yourself, as this has obviously has been passed up for generations of cable haters....Signal Cable/Blue Jeans Cable offer a 30 day money back guarantee and have cables from $25/pair to $100+/pair. How is that insane since Best Buy and the trusted B&M outlets that you shop at regularly sell Monster Cable and Rocketfish cables that far exceed those prices yet I bet you still shop there, and will continue to do so. That's blatant price gouging yet Signal, Blue Jeans and even Monoprice are out of control huh? PLUS, if you're not happy, you just return them like any other product in the world.

I guarantee you're not on the corporate web forums of any manufacturer, nor have you ever emailed them about this to any of the entities involved....yet you'll start waving your flag here, of all places. A loudspeaker forum. Like we as members have been secretly misguiding individuals for years, only to have you show up, part the cable sea and bestow upon the unknowing, a burning bush of truth. Give me a break.

We try our very best to keep it rational and the points of view here are solid and varied enough that no one is ever mislead here....and never has been since I joined in 2003. We're not Audioholics since they question everything that doesn't come out of an OEM box unless it's one of their advertisers. Fortunately, we don't have to really think about much here beings its simply a loudspeaker company. There dynamic is totally different from ours and always will be.

The only product we have to worry about and care about to the point of crazy town, is Polk Audio. And even that is kept within boundaries since it's not the best speaker in the world, we know that but it's good enough that we have 119,000 members. We have an active userbase that is all over the place in regards to experience, historical ownership and demographics. We welcome everyone that joins and while we have the same idiosyncrocies that happen in other forums, it's pretty damn nice to be a member here.

I'm sorry but you cable guys that want to drag price into all of this simply have nothing to stand on. That's factual information and has nothing to do with the why's and how's of it all....just facts based on price.

I never mentioned perfect surface copper or network boxes at all did I? nor did I mention why it all works. Why? Because it doesn't matter, we're just talking money. It's YOU that want to get deep cry voodoo, thievary and BS when we're talking about something as simple as a $25 cable. Weird man, just weird.

tonyb

Having been around this place for over a decade now, these cable debates get tiresome. It's one thing to have an opinion either way, but totally another to rip someone else who opposes yours.

It has been my experience,and I'm sure others too, that the one's who tout measurements have never experienced good quality cables....and I'm not talking moving from a 10 buck cable to a 25 buck cable on sony bookies with a cheap cdp either. When your system starts moving up the ladder and becomes more revealing,those small changes in cables become more noticable. Of coarse not everyone see's the value in those smaller increment improvements, but some do. If you don't, then rock on and enjoy your tunes and don't post in a cable thread. Can't be anymore simple than that.

heiney9

Most, if not all, cable naysayers I see posting on CP are just posting (trolling) for an arguement or to be contraversial. They have absolutely no interest in trying anything or improving their rig. Simply here to start an internet fight and see how much ire they can receive.

H9

Joe08867

heiney9 wrote: »

Most, if not all, cable naysayers I see posting on CP are just posting (trolling) for an arguement or to be contraversial. They have absolutely no interest in trying anything or improving their rig. Simply here to start an internet fight.

H9

Amen, :cool:

BlueFox

Personally, I like cable threads, even if some do find them repetitive. At least they are audio related, and are more interesting than the usual "What is the best toilet seat" threads.

Reading the cable threads over the years is what made me finally experiment with upgraded power cords. Who would have thought that a power cord can make a difference? Yet, it turns out they do, and the better the cord, the better the improvement. The same thing applies to interconnects and speaker cables. Thanks to these threads I broke down and bought MIT XLR ICs. Big improvement. I have gone through 3 speaker cable upgrades. Improvement each time. On the other hand, if it were not for these threads I would have a few more dollars in the bank. :biggrin:

Invariably, in these threads the ones advocating the positive attributes of cables appear more credible than the ones who feel all cables are the same. Generally, it is because they back up their statements with actual hands-on experience. Plus, with these threads, it is always fun to watch "The Stupid People" make fools of themselves with their infinite knowledge, and zero experience.

"My friend used a multi-meter and compared brand X to brand Y, and they both measured 1.3 ohms. Therefore they are the same." :rolleyes:

Joe08867

I haven't jumped into the MIT cable realm but I have upgraded all my speaker wires with Kimber and all my interconnects with Blue Jeans and there was a vast improvement over the Lamp wire and cheapo cables I was using.

Just the speaker cables changed how I listen and for how long. I find I have to tear myself away from my 2ch rig when I start listening.

mopar paul

Once upon a time I was quite skeptical of any cable improvements, and still are at some of the super expensive cables. Only when I bought nicer equipment did I decide to try some better cables. I can tell you that despite some peoples objectives, you can hear a difference. HOW? When I listen to some music, I hear material not heard with the cheaper cables. Some things are just very subtle, notes in the background, that are reavealed. (As a side note, I switched from Monster to Kimber Kable)
I know some will never be a believer, but thats ok. I have changed power cables and have not heard a difference, but some people do. That's fine by me so whats the big deal?

Joe08867

mopar paul wrote: »

Once upon a time I was quite skeptical of any cable improvements, and still are at some of the super expensive cables. Only when I bought nicer equipment did I decide to try some better cables. I can tell you that despite some peoples objectives, you can hear a difference. HOW? When I listen to some music, I hear material not heard with the cheaper cables. Some things are just very subtle, notes in the background, that are reavealed. (As a side note, I switched from Monster to Kimber Kable)
I know some will never be a believer, but thats ok. I have changed power cables and have not heard a difference, but some people do. That's fine by me so whats the big deal?

Well said, What's the big deal. You either believe or you don't.

PS Kimber is the Schiit.

bikezappa

With regard to compairing a $300 bike to a $3000 bike the difference is obvious: weight. Even a blind person can tell the difference and that is a real blind test. Also the handling, shifting and braking would be very different. The difference between a $3000 bike and $10,000 bike would be very hard to determine however.

Yes the same old same old cable threads are just boring now. If you hear a differnce then be happy that you can afford to spend the big $ on your hobby and system. It's your money and your opinion and your music system. But please don't use BS science to justify the value of big buck cables or fuses or line cords.

reeltrouble1

nice to see you finally posted bail after 45 days and are back out on the streets.

RT1

DON73

I bought a pair of the MIT cables that were on sale because the arrows were pointing the wrong way. MITs regular price was $249 and I paid $49. My initial impression was that the high end was a little more laid back and that the volume was lowered. Now I believe the laid back sound was a result of lowering the volume. I don't know how long I've had the cables but I'm sure it's been several months and I've never felt that they actually sound better than the $25 pair I have in my system now. I had to remove the MITs when I put an integrated tube amp in my system. The tube amps VU meter would bounce from minimum to maximum even with no speakers connected. That little box on the speaker end of the cables probably has nothing but a resistor in it. I have tried $125 Tara interconnects and couldn't hear a difference in the RS interconnects I was using.......the RS cables are still working and one of the Taras has an open circuit somewhere inside the cable. I have a pair of garden hose size speaker cables somewhere here that didn't make any difference in the sound until one of the flat wound wires broke. I have a pair of Kimber interconnects and speaker wires (not expensive) that I don't use any more because I don't like the stiffness. It's been almost 30 yrs. since I bought those so I don't remember if they made the sound better. My wife thought the interconnects did. I'm still willing to try different ways to improve the sound of my system but I'm a bit skeptical based on what little experience I have but I try not to talk down to those here that are firm believers that cables make a significant (I fail in this effort from time to time). These discussions always end up the same way......a pissing contest and efforts by some to insult and degrade another member! Happy cabling.

dorokusai

xcapri79 wrote: »

A representative of Polk Audio shouldn't bash Audioholics. They are one of the best sources of accurate and common sense audio related information around. Their cable education is a must for those who really want to learn about cables.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables

One, I'm not bashing Audioholics. They're a website that frowns upon things that all rational individuals, including those here, tend to do so when spending money. I don't believe anyone has said that was wrong.

My comments were directed at the cable debate, not Audioholics, so if you want to establish your hard-hat, at least get it pointed in the right direction. That website could easily survive without advertisements but unfortunately they are somewhat bound by them, we're not. I agree, it IS a great source of infromration, as I've also stated historically, contrary to the party line found here. Do I agree with it all? No, of course not but that's the glory of opinion.

Two, don't tell me what I should say or not say as I'm as critical of all parties involved to say the least. My historical comments prove that 10 fold. My opinion won't change regardless of your boring attempt to fuel some new anger.

To think that you could contribute yet just don't, boggles me but it's your life man. Why not quote me correctly? As your pick and choose effort is just cheap.

cstmar01

bikezappa wrote: »

With regard to compairing a $300 bike to a $3000 bike the difference is obvious: weight. Even a blind person can tell the difference and that is a real blind test. Also the handling, shifting and braking would be very different. The difference between a $3000 bike and $10,000 bike would be very hard to determine however.

Yes the same old same old cable threads are just boring now. If you hear a differnce then be happy that you can afford to spend the big $ on your hobby and system. It's your money and your opinion and your music system. But please don't use BS science to justify the value of big buck cables or fuses or line cords.

really? so your going to use a hardtail bike for doing DH riding? I would LOVE to see someone do this as you will probably kill yourself trying. A 10K bike cost so as you gain improvements. Is is something that the average joe is going to ride when doing some single track or just going for a ride into town? no. But it does have its place if you're serious about riding and need the extra performance.

The differences would be easy to spot in a 10K bike Vs a less expensive one. Frame construction, quality of the parts used in the drive train, the fork, if its full suspension vs hardtail ect. Its not all about weight. If its DH your bike will run heavier (and if your going to chuck yourself down a ski slope I would pray to God you using something better than a lighter race frame).

Audio is the same way. If your big into it and demand the best of the best you can get it. Just because you don't find yourself with the need to do DH stuff doesn't mean others don't. If you want to just play around on the starter single track be my guest but please don't mess around on the tech. trails, your just being annoying and getting in other people's way.

cstmar01

And ps x what is the point to posting what you did? The op already made a choice and the convo was dead. But no again you have to start onthe campaign to rid the world of those who spend money on cables. You're as annoying as the political ads that run during elections, lots of annoying talk that no one listens to anymore because they already saw it 500 times before

bikezappa

cstmar01 wrote: »

really? so your going to use a hardtail bike for doing DH riding? I would LOVE to see someone do this as you will probably kill yourself trying. A 10K bike cost so as you gain improvements. Is is something that the average joe is going to ride when doing some single track or just going for a ride into town? no. But it does have its place if you're serious about riding and need the extra performance.

The differences would be easy to spot in a 10K bike Vs a less expensive one. Frame construction, quality of the parts used in the drive train, the fork, if its full suspension vs hardtail ect. Its not all about weight. If its DH your bike will run heavier (and if your going to chuck yourself down a ski slope I would pray to God you using something better than a lighter race frame).

Audio is the same way. If your big into it and demand the best of the best you can get it. Just because you don't find yourself with the need to do DH stuff doesn't mean others don't. If you want to just play around on the starter single track be my guest but please don't mess around on the tech. trails, your just being annoying and getting in other people's way.

In life and bike racing and audio there is the law of diminishing returns for the money spent.

I thought that was clear with my examples of bike costs related to performance, that was all I was trying to explain. This bike example was also posted before on this thread. Hope this clears that up.

I don?t get upset with anyone?s comments about their opinions or perceptions of music, expensive and cheap audio cables or fuses or line cords.
That?s what the forum is about.

It?s just a little boring to read the same things over and over and have posters miss quoted again and again.

In the end Mother Nature always bats last however. Grin.

dorokusai

I think you were pretty clear BZ, never read otherwise.

Drenis

dorokusai wrote: »

One, I'm not bashing Audioholics. They're a website that frowns upon things that all rational individuals, including those here, tend to do so when spending money. I don't believe anyone has said that was wrong.

My comments were directed at the cable debate, not Audioholics, so if you want to establish your hard-hat, at least get it pointed in the right direction. That website could easily survive without advertisements but unfortunately they are somewhat bound by them, we're not. I agree, it IS a great source of infromration, as I've also stated historically, contrary to the party line found here. Do I agree with it all? No, of course not but that's the glory of opinion.

Two, don't tell me what I should say or not say as I'm as critical of all parties involved to say the least. My historical comments prove that 10 fold. My opinion won't change regardless of your boring attempt to fuel some new anger.

To think that you could contribute yet just don't, boggles me but it's your life man. Why not quote me correctly? As your pick and choose effort is just cheap.

And I thought me and you got off on the wrong foot... You can come down for a demo and some beer anytime you want. :biggrin:

And just to nail the coffin some more, if it wasn't for CP, I would have always been a anal guy doubting any sort of IC or speaker wires or any cables in general outside of cheap stuff or at the best, monoprice offerings.

dorokusai

Drenis - I'll take you up on that sometime, same offer here :biggrin:

Toolfan66

xcapri79 wrote: »

Cable directionality and the RLC boxes on the cables are two of the scams pointed out by Audioholics.
The other top ten are listed in the following link:



http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/top-ten-signs-an-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil

The following article is worth reading on the subject as well.
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/audio-cables-science-or-religion

You sound like someone trying to shove some sort of religion down someones throat. get over it you know all this does is fuel a fire and IMO your just trolling again.

BlueFox

Just because somebody publishes a list on the Internet doesn't make it the truth. Also, just because somebody does not understand the science does not make it BS. I wonder how many of these cable nay-sayers are religious nuts. There certainly seems to be the same blind fanaticism to only one opinion, along with the inability to think clearly, and having a closed mind.

RuSsMaN

Hey, the Audioholics store has JPS Ultraconductor Bi-Wires with free shipping. From $449 to $1149 / pair.

Something to consider.

dcmartinpc

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Hey, the Audioholics store has JPS Ultraconductor Bi-Wires with free shipping. From $449 to $1149 / pair.

Something to consider.

I was going to say something about this... It seems that expensive cables are only OK if they say they are :biggrin: (And they are selling them!) Everything else is snake oil. :eek:

When people get so revved up about this it DRIVE ME NUTS! This is not the end of the world people! And the people that seem to get the MOST revved up and poke the bear are the ones screaming that a wire is a wire... Good for you. If that is your opinion, you have every right for that to be your opinion. But, here is the catch, I ALSO have every right to my opinion. I have some of those "snakeoil" boxes on my speaker cables, albeit the cheaper ones, but I have them none the less. You know what? I thought they sounded a little better than my previous cables. Again, my opinion. I see no reason to bash and smash based on opinions of those who truly believe they hear a difference. On either side!

It is honestly insulting since you are telling me that my ears are WRONG! You are insulting my intellingence, my ear as an audiophile, and calling me a liar, all at once! It is just plain rude. We can disagree, and that is OK. But please do not insult me for hearing a difference and saying just because it can't be proved electrically that I don't hear it. If I can hear it, it is good enough for me, and if I want to spend a million dollars on cables, I have every right to do that without these cable thugs insulting me! (Not that I have a million dollars, just making a point :rolleyes:)

Can't we all play nice? Can't we can agree to disagree. This applies across the board. It is about finding what each and every one of us likes, and settling there. What I like with likely be different than what others like. And guess what? That is OK

Do your research, find what you like, and sit back and enjoy the music :cool:

Don