I just fried one of my 1C's. Like literally, smoke. See pic...

nspindel
nspindel Posts: 5,343
edited November 2011 in 2 Channel Audio
I'm no electrical engineer, but I think this is bad. Very very bad.

photo.jpg


I made the mistake of powering up my amp before I turned on the tube preamp. When I switched the preamp from headphones to line output, there was a pop noise, and then....

I'm pretty sure all four drivers are fried. One is literally burnt to a crisp, the other ones are not moving in and out well.

Can someone help me out with the steps to diagnose exactly what I fried here? How can I test out the crossovers? And the tweeters?

Damn. This ain't good...
Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
Post edited by nspindel on
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited July 2011
    DAMN! When you do something you do it BIG!!
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    Sucks to be you right now, sorry that happened! I need a checklist myself to keep me from making a big "pop" with my setup.:frown:
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    The good news, if there's any positive to be found here, is that I have a pair of CRS+'s that I haven't even started rebuilding yet, so I can poach the 6510's and 6511's from them, so I have the four replacement drivers in hand already, although will need new ones for the CRS+'s. I just need to know how to test the crossovers before I power anything up again.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    Proceed slowly & cautiously...... and good luck. :smile:
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,603
    edited July 2011
    Damn that sucks! But uhhh take more pics! :biggrin:
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    Sorry dude, smoke's all gone, show's over...
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited July 2011
    If you cannot find old 10's and 11's i have a couple new style from current polk stock if you want them.
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,603
    edited July 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    Sorry dude, smoke's all gone, show's over...

    Yeah, I meant take pics of the burnt drivers. :tongue::rolleyes:
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2011
    The smoke looks to be from the voicecoils ,I suspect they protested so loudly because they recieved a large spike of DC.Get your credit card ready.
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,287
    edited July 2011
    Not to be a dunce ...but can someone explain what happened so I or anyone else don't repeat

    thanks

    Or was this a volumn issue
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2011
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Not to be a dunce ...but can someone explain what happened so I or anyone else don't repeat

    thanks

    Or was this a volumn issue
    My guess is that when he switch on his preamp it sent a DC voltage spike that the amp then sent to the woofers voicecoils,which if high enough in level will destroy them.Being a tube pre it will have DC blocking coupling caps at it's output but if they had insufficient time to charge fully(such as at turn on) or leaky ,DC can be passed to the amp.For this scenario to happen the amp would need to be a directly coupled design,I'm assuming it is.
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited July 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    The good news, if there's any positive to be found here, is that I have a pair of CRS+'s that I haven't even started rebuilding yet, so I can poach the 6510's and 6511's from them, so I have the four replacement drivers in hand already, although will need new ones for the CRS+'s. I just need to know how to test the crossovers before I power anything up again.

    Ugh! Sorry about your misfortune, Neil, but I gotta say, you've got a great attitude! You got handed a bunch of lemons and you're already figuring out how to make lemonade!
    Good luck getting it all straightened out, but I've no doubt you'll be fine. I'm sure you'll get all the help you need here.

    Later,
    Ed
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    More good news, as good news goes here. Took everything apart, the tweeters have a dcr of 6.4 ohms each, and I can't find any evidence of burn marks on any of the Sonicaps, and meter readings don't show any shorts, resistors measure ok, etc. Drivers, different story. Three out of the four read dead on my meter, and the fourth is quite seized up even though it still shows a meter reading.

    So I'm going to look at the bright side here. First of all, I've been procrastinating pulling these apart anyway to do the mortite, jb weld, dynamat, and rings. Well, now one of them is already pulled apart. Also, it looks like I only need to replace the four drivers, and I'm fortunate enough to have a complete set of spares on hand.

    So I guess it's time to further mod my 1C's!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2011
    The caps in series with the tweets saved them,the woofers have no such line of defense.
    So the problem only occured on one side?
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    I'm pretty sure that nothing happened on the other side. Well, I didn't see any smoke, let's put it that way. I haven't tested it yet, but as long as I have some mods to do I'll measure everything when I pull it apart.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited July 2011
    That is one of the coolest pics EVER.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2011
    Before using the amp and preamp again I would be putting a meter on their respective outputs to verify that there is not an excessive amount of DC offset present.(ie less than 50mv.)
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,151
    edited July 2011
    Wow, sorry that happened. :frown:


    I can count on 2 hands how many times I turned my system on, only to be reminded of where the volume knob had been moved to. Luckily I never had what happened to you happen to me. I did have a shorted balance knob blow up a RT3000p tweeter once. The other speakers handled the short real well. That sound might just be the loudest noise I've ever heard from a set of speakers..:eek:..It was like a bomb went off right in front of me..My wife even came running to the room to see if I was all right and to ask what the heck happened.:eek:This smilie was how she looked for real. I might have looked like it too.:eek:

    I guess your experience was a quick pop and a quick sizzle of sorts?

    Again, sorry for your misfortune in this case. I agree with others, you have a great outlook about this.:wink:
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    RuSsMaN wrote: »
    That is one of the coolest pics EVER.

    I'm pretty sure I'm lucky enough here that I can actually laugh at that. I actually think it's pretty funny that as my speaker was smoking like that, my first instinct was to take a picture of it to show all of you characters:cool:
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    FTGV wrote: »
    Before using the amp and preamp again I would be putting a meter on their respective outputs to verify that there is not an excessive amount of DC offset present.(ie less than 50mv.)

    Will do.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited July 2011
    RuSsMaN wrote: »
    That is one of the coolest pics EVER.

    Took the words outa my f'n budlight stankin mouth .I love this pic and it should be put on a sticky for setting up precautions
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2011
    FTGV wrote: »
    My guess is that when he switch on his preamp it sent a DC voltage spike that the amp then sent to the woofers voicecoils,which if high enough in level will destroy them.Being a tube pre it will have DC blocking coupling caps at it's output but if they had insufficient time to charge fully(such as at turn on) or leaky ,DC can be passed to the amp.For this scenario to happen the amp would need to be a directly coupled design,I'm assuming it is.
    Toobes rule, right? Nice big DC spikes to the woofs and they go woof!



    nspindel, great attitude toward your miss fortune! I guess you see your glass as still half full.
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited July 2011
    awesome pic... did it smell too?
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2011
    sorry for your misfortune--bummer-- what amp/pre was in use please sir/ Best of luck for a speedy recovery.:smile:
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,418
    edited July 2011
    I called a haz-mat team for you, and they should be there shortly:biggrin:


    try the Armacell on the new drivers instead of moretite. It does a better job of sealing to the baffle without any of teh complications that come from moretite
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    danger boy wrote: »
    awesome pic... did it smell too?

    Stunk!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,184
    edited July 2011
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    try the Armacell on the new drivers instead of moretite. It does a better job of sealing to the baffle without any of teh complications that come from moretite

    +1. http://www.homedepot.com/buy/plumbing-pipe-insulation/armacell-armaflex-2-in-x-30-in-r-1-foam-insulation-tape-153843.html
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's
    Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
    SDA 2B TL's
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    I already have the armacell. Is there a thread showing pics of installing it? The stuff isn't thick enough to cut a full size round piece from a template. So what do you do? Cut it into thin strips and then curl it around the drivers?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • codyc1ark
    codyc1ark Posts: 2,532
    edited July 2011
    Thats just... Depleating...
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited July 2011
    Nope. It's an opportunity to further improve my already great speakers.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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