Loudness switch... can I live without it?

m1aman
m1aman Posts: 143
edited July 2011 in 2 Channel Audio
Thinking about going from a vintage Pioneer receiver with a loudness switch to a new Cambridge system without one. Those of you who have had to make the transition... do you find it annoying? I fear I will find myself constantly fiddling with the controls without my beloved loudness switch. Is the loudness switch just a dated feature?
Post edited by m1aman on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
«13

Comments

  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited July 2011
    Unless you listen to a lot of LOW volume music in the background you won't miss a thing and you'll hear a lot more!

    As I type this I am listening to a two channel system with a Nakamichi pre-amp that has absolutely NO tone controls of any kind. It sounds great!

    My integrated tube amp is the same...no tone controls....everything is flat but lush and warm.

    And at least the Cambridge has tone controls, you can adjust at your whim?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cubdog
    cubdog Posts: 835
    edited July 2011
    Free yourself. Live without.

    cubdog
    Shuguang Classic S8MK
    Emotiva XDA-2
    Bel Canto M300 mono blocks
    Bel Canto DAC 1.5
    Squeezebox Touch
    Sony SS-M7
    A/D/S L710
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • DollarDave
    DollarDave Posts: 2,575
    edited July 2011
    I listen to both low-level and loud music. I personally like a properly designed loudness switch/button like B&K, NAD, and HK have on many of their units. If done correctly, it fades as the volume increases which suposedly mimics our hearing ability.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,809
    edited July 2011
    I don't miss loudness compensation, tone controls, balance control, nor an active preamp. Less is more, sometimes.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    Yeah, what the Hell, just fix the sound with a long parade of cable changes instead of the controls the engineers specifically designed for that purpose. Some of the minimalist, die-hards on here who shun everything but a volume knob really crack me up ! I wonder if any of em remove the brakes from their cars??:biggrin: FWIW, a boost to the bass control can somewhat mimic the loudness feature.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,809
    edited July 2011
    I don't much "believe" in cables... but I do agree they can be used as a very expensive form of tone control.

    I don' 'roll' tubes, much, either. I just use pretty good stuff that I like... not even terribly expensive stuff: one could - fairly easily - spend more on a set of "interconnects" than I have invested in the whole system in the living room. It sounds good loud. It sounds good soft.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • m1aman
    m1aman Posts: 143
    edited July 2011
    I gotta admit I don't know anything about such things. All I have ever had were receivers with a loudness control. The Cambridge setup will be my first separates ever. I wasn't even aware there were systems with no tone controls.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,575
    edited July 2011
    gdb wrote: »
    Yeah, what the Hell, just fix the sound with a long parade of cable changes instead of the controls the engineers specifically designed for that purpose. Some of the minimalist, die-hards on here who shun everything but a volume knob really crack me up ! I wonder if any of em remove the brakes from their cars??:biggrin: FWIW, a boost to the bass control can somewhat mimic the loudness feature.

    It's amazing how little you know about this hobby.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    It's amazing how little you know about this hobby.

    It's even more amazing how much you're convinced you do know. :biggrin: For me it's not a hobby or an obsession, merely the means to an end that is music reproduction that is acceptable/ pleasing to my ears. I do not seek recognition, status or title, just good music.:rolleyes:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited July 2011
    Loudness control=Satan
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Loudness control=Satan

    I thought the Bose Monster was Satan !?!:eek::biggrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    Keiko wrote: »
    Precisely why I put gdb on the iList months ago, Jess. The boy's got issues.

    Hello to you too, how's your bud H.I. doing, Hmmmm ????? You kids really are a genuine scream. Isn't there anything else in your life, do you ever get "lucky" with another human? Better sweeten up towards me haole, I'm going to be in yer neighborhood very soon!:eek:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    Keiko wrote: »
    Precisely why I put gdb on the iList months ago, Jess. The boy's got issues.

    How do you see my offerings if I am, in fact, on your prestigious ignore list?? You peeking ?:biggrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2011
    The only loudness control remotely useful IMO is of the variable sort as that utilized in a number of Yamaha's products over the years..
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • stuwee
    stuwee Posts: 1,508
    edited July 2011
    We all peek, it's human nature!! :biggrin:

    I only use the loudness switch in low level situ's.

    I Love Yamaha's loudness contour control since I put the CX-600U in the main rig...don't know how I lived without it! Brilliant!!

    I rarely use tone controls, but I must have them on certain recordings. And I'm a recent IC convert, just lowly Tara Labs Greens.
    Thorens TD125MKII, SME3009,Shure V15/ Teac V-8000S, Denon DN-790R cass, Teac 3340 RtR decks, Onix CD2...Sumo Electra Plus pre>SAE A1001 amp>Martin Logan Summit's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited July 2011
    Easy on the name calling boys!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,809
    edited July 2011
    FTGV wrote: »
    The only loudness control remotely useful IMO is of the variable sort as that utilized in a number of Yamaha's products over the years..

    I would concur. Others have used that approach as well; for example the EICO HF-52 mono integrated tube amp I had in high school (itself of ca. mid-1950s vintage) had a flat 'level' control and a variable contour 'loudness' control that worked just like the Yamahas.

    The only drawback to the Yamaha variable loudness was that the curves were based on the classic but now somewhat discredited Fletcher-Munson 'equal intensity perception' loudness curves.

    You can see the Yamaha variable loudness contours,e.g., on page 20 of http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/AFR/CR-2020.pdf
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • m1aman
    m1aman Posts: 143
    edited July 2011
    Well, you guys have got me listening to my music with the loudness switch off all night. I am adjusting to it and I do hear some vocals more clearly (bohemian rhapsody)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited July 2011
    m1aman wrote: »
    Well, you guys have got me listening to my music with the loudness switch off all night. I am adjusting to it and I do hear some vocals more clearly (bohemian rhapsody)

    Do the Fandando !!!:biggrin: Do what sounds right to you and not what any know it all on here say's is best, correct, optimal, blah blah blah !:wink: Maybe a set of earphones will eliminate the need to keep the volume down and the loudness switched on.:smile:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited July 2011
    Kenneth Swauger wrote: »
    Easy on the name calling boys!

    Uh-oh, somebody's about to get a spanking! :eek:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,381
    edited July 2011
    The need for "loudness" also depends on your speakers. Some are able to produce a full range sound at low volume without compensation. For example, my RTA11TL's need no compensation but smaller bookshelf speakers like the Monitor 5 benefit from a little boost at low listening levels.
    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fossy
    fossy Posts: 1,378
    edited July 2011
    loudness... I have that feature on my low $$$ pre but never use it... I find it's just not needed ..... bohemian rhapsody kicks
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • quadzilla
    quadzilla Posts: 1,543
    edited July 2011
    This is what I've figured out about tone, loudness etc.... If you set everything up right, including your room, and it measures reasonably flat at the listening position, then if the recording sounds like ****, it means the recording sounds like ****. It doesn't mean you should start fiddling knobs trying to make it sound like not-****.

    So I'm a semi-purist in that I have a balance and a volume, but nothing else. Don't see the need for any other fiddlewidgets in my set up.

    And to the snarky commentor above, no, I didn't remove the brakes from my car, since they're essential to it's operation, just like I would't rip the stylus out of my cartridge. However, if I was trying to make my car go faster, the A/C would be the first thing to go, since A/C isn't essential to the car's operation, and it sucks power even when it's not being used, just like most tone and loudness controls impede the signal even when they're not being used.
    Turntable: Empire 208
    Arm: Rega 300
    Cart: Shelter 501 III
    Phono Pre: Aural Thrills
    Digital: Pioneer DV-79ai
    Pre: Conrad Johnson ET3 SE
    Amp: Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000
    Cables: Cardas Neutral Reference
    Speakers: SDA 2.3TL, heavily modified
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Beta
    Beta Posts: 267
    edited July 2011
    gdb wrote: »
    For me it's not a hobby or an obsession

    No tone control on my preamp. Only three knobs. Volume, left gain and right gain. Nothing else.

    I love how my system sounds right now. However, no doubt I will be swapping something out and trying a new piece sooner rather than later.

    Guess I need to say this; Hi, my name is Beta and I am obsessed with this hobby.

    For some it's the journey, not one destination.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited July 2011
    Only two knobs on my Integrated. Volume and source. That is all that is needed in my world.

    I leave the bells and whistles for the HT setup.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited July 2011
    m1aman wrote: »
    Well, you guys have got me listening to my music with the loudness switch off all night. I am adjusting to it and I do hear some vocals more clearly (bohemian rhapsody)

    Hmmm....a Queen man, welcome to the Freddy Mercury club. Dig them too, but on the loudness switch, don't worry about it. You'll enjoy the Cambridge to no end and you can even have a short funeral service for that beloved loudness switch.:smile:
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,809
    edited July 2011
    I see a little silhouetteo of an amp...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited July 2011
    Last time I checked, I didn't see a loudness switch on any musical instrument.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,179
    edited July 2011
    Loudness switch... can I live without it?

    ABSOLUTELY.......it's really not a necessity at all, more of a crutch.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • wayne3burk
    wayne3burk Posts: 939
    edited July 2011
    If you're going to a modern AV Receiver with a Sub out- get a musical sub and play with the crossover and volume... You'll find that it's much more flexible than a loudness switch and the results can be pleasently surprising.

    Just my two half-pence worth.
    wayne
    Yamaha RX-V2700, EMI 711As (front), RCA K-16 (rear), Magnavox Console (Center & TV Stand), Sony SMP-N200 media streamer, Dual 1249 TT =--- Sharp Aquas 60" LCD tellie
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter