Whats the top HT center channels out there?

2

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  • Larry Chanin
    Larry Chanin Posts: 601
    edited May 2011
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Bookshelf speakers acting like center speakers is the trick!

    I love my setup with dual centers...

    Hi Trey,

    I agree that stacked bookshelf speakers matched to the mains are a great way to go. In my case it works for vintage SDAs as well.

    I have my front speakers and subwoofer concealed behind acoustically transparent panels. Here's a photo with the panels removed.

    shadow2.jpg

    Here's the lower center channel.

    DSCN0297.jpg

    Here's the upper center channel.

    crsup2.jpg

    I used to have a single CS400i, but this has a better timbre match and of course does a much better job of filling the sonic hole between my mains which are spaced 13 feet apart on either side of my screen.

    Larry
    Larry's Home Theater
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  • Lietuvis91
    Lietuvis91 Posts: 908
    edited May 2011
    hmmm... so maybe 2 m40s next to each other would be a good center channel...

    This actually sounds VERY doable in my setup, especially given the amplification I will have to push them (parasound hca1000a) I just may have to try this, if I don't get the desired results out of my amped cs2.
    Then I can make the cs2 a single rear channel, or something...
    Living Room 7.1 HT Rig:

    M70 | CS2 | M60 | Atrium5 - Surr. | SUB - Emotiva ULTRA12 + Tara Labs sub cable | Pioneer Elite VSX-52 | Parasound HCAs 1000A | Sony BDP-S790 | Belkin PureAV PF60 | MIT Exp2 Wires

    Bedroom 5.0 HT Rig (Music/Movies/Gaming) :

    LSi9 | LsiC | Lsi/fx | Marantz SR7002 | NAD T955 | Sony BDP-S360 | Belkin PureAV PF30 | AQ Blue Racer II ICs & AQ Type 4 wires | PS3
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  • Larry Chanin
    Larry Chanin Posts: 601
    edited May 2011
    Lietuvis91 wrote: »
    hmmm... so maybe 2 m40s next to each other would be a good center channel...

    This actually sounds VERY doable in my setup, especially given the amplification I will have to push them (parasound hca1000a) I just may have to try this, if I don't get the desired results out of my amped cs2.
    Then I can make the cs2 a single rear channel, or something...

    Hi,

    In my opinion dual horizontal centers defeats the purpose of having an unsmeared, stable center sonic image anchored where it is supposed to be. In the stacked centers arrangement the phantom image stays in the center both horizontally and vertically because the speakers remain equidistant from all listeners regardless of whether they are seated off-axis. In the horizontal arrangement you will have the sonic image pulling off-center when seated off center because the speakers are no longer equidistant from the listeners.

    By the way, I'm using a Parasound HCA-2200 II with 220 watts RMS into 8 ohms, and 385 watts RMS into 4 ohms for each center channel speaker. I'm using the line level from my preamplifier's center preout to a "Y" cable and into each channel input on the Parasound amplifier, then speaker cables from the right and left channel of the stereo amp to each center speaker.

    Larry
    Larry's Home Theater
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  • Lietuvis91
    Lietuvis91 Posts: 908
    edited May 2011
    Well, in my case I think it could still work because the m40s would sit on their sides next to each other making one giant center channel speaker.

    So the cs2 sits on the shelf below the TV: O.O

    While 2 m40s would look something like this: 0.0 0.0

    seems m40s would still form a wider sound stage compared to a single cs2. Theoretically...

    I'm quiet intrigued this idea :smile:
    Living Room 7.1 HT Rig:

    M70 | CS2 | M60 | Atrium5 - Surr. | SUB - Emotiva ULTRA12 + Tara Labs sub cable | Pioneer Elite VSX-52 | Parasound HCAs 1000A | Sony BDP-S790 | Belkin PureAV PF60 | MIT Exp2 Wires

    Bedroom 5.0 HT Rig (Music/Movies/Gaming) :

    LSi9 | LsiC | Lsi/fx | Marantz SR7002 | NAD T955 | Sony BDP-S360 | Belkin PureAV PF30 | AQ Blue Racer II ICs & AQ Type 4 wires | PS3
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  • Larry Chanin
    Larry Chanin Posts: 601
    edited May 2011
    Lietuvis91 wrote: »
    Well, in my case I think it could still work because the m40s would sit on their sides next to each other making one giant center channel speaker.

    So the cs2 sits on the shelf below the TV: O.O

    While 2 m40s would look something like this: 0.0 0.0

    seems m40s would still form a wider sound stage compared to a single cs2. Theoretically...

    I'm quiet intrigued this idea :smile:

    Hi,

    Some folks believe that conventional center channel speakers are compromised, in comparison to the main speakers, because the drivers are forced to be placed horizontally. This means the further off-center one sits the more there is a difference in distance, and this can cause phase differences and comb filtering. The two center approach exaggerates this situation.

    Nevertheless, if you think it makes sense it shouldn't be too difficult to experiment and see how you like it. Particularly if you are the only listener seated on axis.

    Larry
    Larry's Home Theater
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2011
    I wouldn't hesitate to run dual center channels again and usually do if at all possible.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited May 2011
    dorokusai wrote: »
    I wouldn't hesitate to run dual center channels again and usually do if at all possible.

    So Mark your saying I need 2 LSiC's then lol......
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • pdxfj
    pdxfj Posts: 376
    edited May 2011
    I had the same issue with the CS2 that Leituvis describes since our setups were almost identical. It wasn't until I got an external amp that the CS2 really came to life. It has no problem keeping up with my M70's and puts out a surprising amount of bass. I'm still tweaking placement of the M70's but the CS2 is very clear and detailed compared to what it was before.

    My plan is when I build my dedicated theater is to use an AT screen and get another M70 for use as a center channel.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,204
    edited May 2011
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    Quite often I find myself just watching a bluray on 2 channel for the simple fact that tower speakers do such a great job .

    Is there any center channel out there that can perform like a tower can for clarity and dynamics during movie night ?

    Here's the deal I would like each member to choose one center channel and post a pic and a description of why its awesome :smile:
    I never did ask , what exactly is your entire system and the room it's in your unhappy with?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited May 2011
    mantis wrote: »
    I never did ask , what exactly is your entire system and the room it's in your unhappy with?

    Well its not so much that I am unhappy Dan and I do apologize for giving this impression .I have martin logan source se that has paper woofers so I went for the best possible match martin logan recommends and that happens to be the matinee that also has paper woofers for the seamless blend .

    Here's my deal, the source sound f'n fantastic on movies but the center just cant compete with the larger panels on the source .The matinee retails for over $1500 and I got it for less because I bought a store demo model and let me just say that my $150 polk csi5 had way more juice in the sack than the matinee

    I just made the op to see what exactly is out there in the world of monster center channels .
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  • love2listen
    love2listen Posts: 172
    edited May 2011
    I'm running dual Lsi9's as my center channel and am very pleased with the way it sounds. The other day a prospective buyer was here to listen to some of the gear and he asked me to connect the LsiC instead of the 9's. After listening to some SACD's and watching a few clips of movies, he felt, as I do, that the dual 9's really bring together the front stage very nicely.
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  • Lietuvis91
    Lietuvis91 Posts: 908
    edited May 2011
    A friend of mine brought up a interesting point: are bookshelves shielded well enough to be placed next to each other? He seemed to think that center channel speakers are typically specially shielded and bookshelves are not. Is there any truth to this?
    Living Room 7.1 HT Rig:

    M70 | CS2 | M60 | Atrium5 - Surr. | SUB - Emotiva ULTRA12 + Tara Labs sub cable | Pioneer Elite VSX-52 | Parasound HCAs 1000A | Sony BDP-S790 | Belkin PureAV PF60 | MIT Exp2 Wires

    Bedroom 5.0 HT Rig (Music/Movies/Gaming) :

    LSi9 | LsiC | Lsi/fx | Marantz SR7002 | NAD T955 | Sony BDP-S360 | Belkin PureAV PF30 | AQ Blue Racer II ICs & AQ Type 4 wires | PS3
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited May 2011
    This dual center channel thing really has me intrigued but one thing that concerns me is that the two channels are not equidistant . If I was to buy another matinee center ch then I would have to stick it above my projector screen so this would mean that the top would be further away from me than the bottom as I like to pull the center channel out a few feet from the wall
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2011
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    So Mark your saying I need 2 LSiC's then lol......

    Hey, whatever it takes for you to achieve high quality sound man.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2011
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    This dual center channel thing really has me intrigued but one thing that concerns me is that the two channels are not equidistant . If I was to buy another matinee center ch then I would have to stick it above my projector screen so this would mean that the top would be further away from me than the bottom as I like to pull the center channel out a few feet from the wall

    That's when your AVR's room setup or distance parameters come into play, if you have them. The delay between a loudspeaker that's a foot away from the other, in your situation for example, is nothing to worry about.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited May 2011
    dorokusai wrote: »
    Hey, whatever it takes for you to achieve high quality sound man.

    Hehehehe.... I know I was just joking w/ you since you had 2 LSiC's for sale (one of which I have of course).... its something I will deal with in a 6 months or so once I get used to how it sounds, but right now I am in Audio Nirvana.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,204
    edited May 2011
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    Well its not so much that I am unhappy Dan and I do apologize for giving this impression .I have martin logan source se that has paper woofers so I went for the best possible match martin logan recommends and that happens to be the matinee that also has paper woofers for the seamless blend .

    Here's my deal, the source sound f'n fantastic on movies but the center just cant compete with the larger panels on the source .The matinee retails for over $1500 and I got it for less because I bought a store demo model and let me just say that my $150 polk csi5 had way more juice in the sack than the matinee

    I just made the op to see what exactly is out there in the world of monster center channels .
    Nothing out their is going to match your ML speakers other then a ML center channel. This also holds true for the surround speakers. You can however use different subs but as good as ML subs are I stongly suggest you use one or 2 if you are not already.
    The CSi5 is a completely different speakers and matches the RTi series speakers. If you used one in your current system , you would notice a tonal difference which is very distracting when watching movies. You kinda can get away with this with surround speakers for most movies that don't use the surrounds much. But when things move around the room , you can hear the difference instead of enjoying the movie.
    What are you driving the speakers with? Are you giving them enough current to sound their best? how about placement and calibration? That center should be ran in small and crossed over at 80hz. It will perform it's best their.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited May 2011
    I replaced my LSiC with a PSB Synchrony One center. It was a drop in replacement. The levels matched all around. Anyway, it made a great differance in center channel sound. Bigger, wider, and blends perfect with the other 4 LSi15s. One of my better upgrades.

    http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Synchrony/Synchrony-One-C
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2011
    PSB is the Polk Audio of Canada.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited May 2011
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I replaced my LSiC with a PSB Synchrony One center. It was a drop in replacement. The levels matched all around. Anyway, it made a great differance in center channel sound. Bigger, wider, and blends perfect with the other 4 LSi15s. One of my better upgrades.

    http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Synchrony/Synchrony-One-C

    What made you go with 4 LSi 15's rather than something like the FXi's or the 9's or 7's? I ask because its been a thought in my mind as well to possibly get another set of 15's or get the 25's for my fronts....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited May 2011
    I' surprised there hasn't been more talk about the processor/receiver.
    If I hear that the center channel is not blending into the mains, My first suspicion is the processor (given the center is timbre matched). I would look into the center width parameters which are specifically related to the blending of the center into the mains.

    If the center is not timbre matched, however, it's always going to stick out like a sore thumb
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2011
    I believe Polk's new TOTL center will be a W T/M W, that will be something to watch for.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2011
    Face wrote: »
    I believe Polk's new TOTL center will be a W T/M W, that will be something to watch for.

    It will be under my television Face, that's for sure. It's time to go back to big speakers again I guess...ho hum, the trials and tribulations of ole' dorokusai.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Topper
    Topper Posts: 403
    edited May 2011
    you guys got me curious about dual center speakers - how do you guys have them powered and wired in? I think i might want to try this.

    (EDIT: is this even possible with a receiver powered setup or just for those with external amps?)
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  • love2listen
    love2listen Posts: 172
    edited May 2011
    My 9's are powered by a Sunfire Amp, which also power the 15's up front.
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  • bluecomet
    bluecomet Posts: 1,118
    edited May 2011
    Correct me if I am wrong but when you run dual centers, you wire them in series. I am also thinking about doing this with dual SRT centers.
    Polk HT system 1: LSIC, LSI25 mains, LSI F/X rears, Lsi F/X rear centers,
    Yamaha RX-V2500 System, Carver A753 3 channel amp.

    Polk HT system 2: , SRT system with f/x 1,000's rear speakers on 7.1 system currently using Onkyo TX-RZ820 receiver, powered by Sunfire Grand Theater amp

    Polk Speaker collection: SDA SRS 1.2tl x 2, SRT system, SDA SRS 2 P/B, SDA 2A, SDA 1C Studio, SDA CRS+, Monitor 7B & 4, SRS 3.1tl, RTA 15tl, LS90, LSI 9
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited May 2011
    bluecomet wrote: »
    Correct me if I am wrong but when you run dual centers, you wire them in series. I am also thinking about doing this with dual SRT centers.

    I think your RX-2500 supports a center presence speaker. You would wire your additional center channel using that connection. No parallel/series wiring needed.

    Try it either way.
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited May 2011
    Face wrote: »
    I believe Polk's new TOTL center will be a W T/M W, that will be something to watch for.

    Which is the type that I run and for off axis response the right way to do a center channel.
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited May 2011
    Topper wrote: »
    you guys got me curious about dual center speakers - how do you guys have them powered and wired in? I think i might want to try this.

    (EDIT: is this even possible with a receiver powered setup or just for those with external amps?)

    What receiver do you have? If it is a 9.x or 11.x it has support for height/presence speakers.
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  • Larry Chanin
    Larry Chanin Posts: 601
    edited May 2011
    dorokusai wrote: »
    That's when your AVR's room setup or distance parameters come into play, if you have them. The delay between a loudspeaker that's a foot away from the other, in your situation for example, is nothing to worry about.

    Hi Mark,

    How do you do that when both speakers are connected to the same channel? That is, there is only one distance available per channel.

    Larry
    Larry's Home Theater
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