- Power Cable -do or don't spend $$

dee1949

....simple question and not meant to start a debate. If you have old wiring going to a multi strip........will a high end amp audio cable do any good. What would work beside having a dedicated curcuit?

BlueFox

Get a power conditioner and buy power cables. The wiring in my house is original (1958) and better power cables (Pangea, Shunyata) connected to the Panamax power conditioner make an audible, positive difference.

dee1949

...that's what i want to hear. I have a cheap power conditioner "Pure AV" conditioner. Will a quality audio power cable make a difference. Can't afford the best. Want the best bang for the buck. Can it be spent better ?

Systems

What kind of amp are you running, and what model # of Pure AV conditioner?

TORI3

Signal Cable power cords are priced pretty good.

Can't tell you if they sound good -- 2 of them are being delivered next week.

RuSsMaN

Don't use a power conditioner unless you need one. Upgraded power cables can and will make a difference. Upgrading the wall receptacle is beneficial also.

cokewithvanilla

That's always been my question about cables... if the thing at the other end is not as good as the cable...... For example, if your house is wired with standard 12GA from lowes, with a $.97 AC outlet... how can it possibly make a big, or even small difference to have a 1k power cord?

I've never had an expensive PC, so IDK, but that's always been my logic... can anyone explain this?

cokewithvanilla

Lasareath wrote: »

The better the cord the more electrons move faster and easier into your equipment and then you get better sound.

I know nothing about this, so the electrons will speed up after they hit the better PC? is there any point at which the lines throughout your house become a sort of limitation?

Also,


in this example, would you really notice a difference between the 2k Ics now that you've connected them to the $2 ics? and does the same concept apply to PCs?

BlueFox

Lasareath wrote: »

The better the cord the more electrons move faster and easier into your equipment and then you get better sound.

If you are south of the equator the electrons are stationary, and the holes flow faster. :rolleyes:

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

That's always been my question about cables... if the thing at the other end is not as good as the cable...... For example, if your house is wired with standard 12GA from lowes, with a $.97 AC outlet... how can it possibly make a big, or even small difference to have a 1k power cord?

I've never had an expensive PC, so IDK, but that's always been my logic... can anyone explain this?

Whatever the condtion of the signal is when it reaches your receptacle you want to preserve the integrity of that signal as much as possible, by using inferior connectors and cable after that point you are only increasing the odds of degradation happening.

If you have a nice tight fit with the receptacle a large contact base inside and the proper gauge of wire and the neccesary insulation your chances of maintaining the integrity of that signal is increased greatly. Your entire system is only as good as it's weakest link.

Some areas the voltage may raise or drop greatly which has a negative impact on your gear also, whether you believe it or not your speakers will play louder at 120 volts on the same settings on your preamp than they will at 116 volts.


REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

Whatever the condtion of the signal is when it reaches your receptacle you want to preserve the integrity of that signal as much as possible...Your entire system is only as good as it's weakest link.

Some areas the voltage may raise or drop greatly which has a negative impact on your gear also, whether you believe it or not your speakers will play louder at 120 volts on the same settings on your preamp than they will at 116 volts.


REGARDS SNOW

Makes sense. So I guess my next question is how much of a difference? For example, lets say you have some good cable running through the house, and you have a nice outlet, if you use the exact wire that's running through the walls to go the 2-3 feet to your equipment vs an expensive high quality PC, how much better is it preserving the signal? Can this be measured? Is it really the connector than that is the most important part since the cable running through your house runs tens of feet and this simple runs a few feet? Is there a certain point that you can say this cable will make no discernible difference until the cable running through the walls is changed?

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Makes sense. So I guess my next question is how much of a difference? For example, lets say you have some good cable running through the house, and you have a nice outlet, if you use the exact wire that's running through the walls to go the 2-3 feet to your equipment vs an expensive high quality PC, how much better is it preserving the signal? Can this be measured? Is it really the connector than that is the most important part since the cable running through your house runs tens of feet and this simple runs a few feet? Is there a certain point that you can say this cable will make no discernible difference until the cable running through the walls is changed?

Q-1. Well that would depend on how poor of quality cable you were using before. And you should be able to measure some differences between cables yes, for example hooking up a cheap pair of 24 gauge jumper cables with cheap poorly made connectors to another car versus a thick pair of welding cables with nice connectors the nice cables will deliver more power "amps" quicker and recharge the battery faster.

Q-2. I think every part of the equation is equally important hence the wakest link comment.

Q-3. I dont have the answer to that question, but I do think once you are capable of delivering the signal unaltered then their likely wouldndt be a noticeable difference.



REGARDS SNOW

ben62670

Most aftermarket PC's are shielded to reduce the noise floor. The heavier gage wire adds capacitance. In wall wire is solid strand, and PC wire is fine strand. Remember that the electrons tend to flow on the surface of the wire. The better wire improves flow smoothness. I think that a longer aftermarket cord might sound better than a shorter one. That is not based on fact or experience. It would be nice if someone could do a little shootout.

snow

I think that for most of us buying an used aftermarket cable for a decent price annd seeing/hearing if it makes a difference is the best solution, if it doesnt than re sell it get your money back and move on, if it does make a positive difference keep it.

REGARDS SNOW

Systems

I read once you should not consider the power cable as the Last few feet to your system.
You should view it as the First few feet.

bikerboy

OP: I find positive changes in the quality of the sound of my system with diy VH Audio pc. I was not as impressed with lower priced SC or PS Audio pc. You need to try some for yourself as we cant convince you of the changes that can be heard.
Coke w/V: The pc/interconnect improvement cannot be proven with current scientific tests. Just use your ears as test equipment and you decide. The OP has read as you have all the arguments for or against the use of upgraded pc/ic wire. Sometimes your ears or your gear wont allow the differences to be heard. Or you will decide it isnt worth the cost vs improvement. You are the only one who matters when you hit play and hear the music.
I use a PS Audio Quintet and VH Audio 1,2,3 and 4 flavor PC. Works for me. YMMV!!!!!!!!!!!

MacLeod

Get the standard, basic power cables from Home Depot or whatever power cord came with your gear.

That power youre getting from the wall has already ran thru hundreds of miles of all kinds of different cables, transformers, junction boxes and God knows what else. The last 3 feet of magic cable arent gonna matter.

Besides, your amps, pre-amps etc run on DC not the AC they get out of the wall. Your gear converts the incoming AC to DC in the unit's power supply before its delivered to your amp's guts so it doesnt really matter how fancy your power cord is.

When you fill up your car at the gas station, does it matter what type of hose youre using to fill up the tank? Would a vinyl hose give you better gas mileage than a nylon hose? Does rubber give you more horsepower?

snow

MacLeod wrote: »

Get the standard, basic power cables from Home Depot or whatever power cord came with your gear.

That power youre getting from the wall has already ran thru hundreds of miles of all kinds of different cables, transformers, junction boxes and God knows what else. The last 3 feet of magic cable arent gonna matter.

Besides, your amps, pre-amps etc run on DC not the AC they get out of the wall. Your gear converts the incoming AC to DC in the unit's power supply before its delivered to your amp's guts so it doesnt really matter how fancy your power cord is.

When you fill up your car at the gas station, does it matter what type of hose youre using to fill up the tank? Would a vinyl hose give you better gas mileage than a nylon hose? Does rubber give you more horsepower?

Pretty sad :frown: you cant even tell us in your own words you have to use a quote from a magazine 10 years ago. I would understand if this is something you have tried and it didnt work and you then shared your own personal experience but to do it like this is sad.

REGARDS SNOW

greg2350

MacLeod wrote: »

Get the standard, basic power cables from Home Depot or whatever power cord came with your gear.

That power youre getting from the wall has already ran thru hundreds of miles of all kinds of different cables, transformers, junction boxes and God knows what else. The last 3 feet of magic cable arent gonna matter.

Besides, your amps, pre-amps etc run on DC not the AC they get out of the wall. Your gear converts the incoming AC to DC in the unit's power supply before its delivered to your amp's guts so it doesnt really matter how fancy your power cord is.

When you fill up your car at the gas station, does it matter what type of hose youre using to fill up the tank? Would a vinyl hose give you better gas mileage than a nylon hose? Does rubber give you more horsepower?

snow wrote: »

Pretty sad :frown: you cant even tell us in your own words you have to use a quote from a magazine 10 years ago. I would understand if this is something you have tried and it didnt work and you then shared your own personal experience but to do it like this is sad.

REGARDS SNOW

Yeah that may be a quote from a magazine but its fact. I wish my dad would join this forum just for this thread. He has a masters degree in electrical engineering worked for TI for 23 yrs and now works for raytheon so he knows a thing or 2 about electricity, according to him that quote from whatever magazine from 10 yrs ago is absolutely true that last 3 ft isnt going to make an audible difference. Doesnt matter he could type 10 pages of fact in here and you guys still wouldnt believe it even coming from an expert and he would qualify as an expert. He says you could take the same amp, speakers power cord setup hookup in a house take it to the power station and plug it in then you would hear a difference. If you have old wiring in your house then the last 3 ft power cord isnt going to improve the dirty power coming into your house or improve the old wiring. Ill get flamed for my statements but dont really care I trust what he says not because hes my dad but because he has plenty of experience and knowledge dealing with electricity. His knowledge of electricty goes well beyond your electrician you call to do some wiring in your house.

Unless you have a dogs hearing I think all these cables that cost $1000,s of dollars are stupid, I feel you would get more improvement in SQ spending that money on source, power, and speakers more than spending that kinda money on cables.:biggrin:

Systems

My dad can whoop your dad!

BlueFox

greg2350 wrote: »

Yeah that may be a quote from a magazine but its fact. I wish my dad would join this forum just for this thread. He has a masters degree in electrical engineering worked for TI for 23 yrs and now works for raytheon so he knows a thing or 2 about electricity, according to him that quote from whatever magazine from 10 yrs ago is absolutely true that last 3 ft doesnt make a difference.

A good engineer has an open mind, and understands our knowledge is still at the bottom of the learning curve. Otherwise, he is a poor engineer.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-indepth.html

greg2350

BlueFox wrote: »

A good engineer has an open mind, and understands our knowledge is still at the bottom of the learning curve. Otherwise, he is a poor engineer.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-indepth.html

Thats about the responses I expected its cool flame on I will still sleep good tonight. He must not be to poor of an engineer when he designs the guidence systems on the the missles our military use.:rolleyes:

My point was I feel that spending that kinda money on source, amp or speakers will render more improved SQ than buying $2,000 cables

BlueFox

greg2350 wrote: »

My point was I feel that spending that kinda money on source, amp or speakers will render more improved SQ than buying $2,000 cables

First you were talking about $1000 cables. Now you are talking about $2000 cables. Has there been that much inflation in the last hour?

Also, not to disappoint you, but designing rockets does not mean you know everything. Even in your field of expertise. Sorry. :rolleyes:

ben62670

I paid less than $200 for 3 power cords. Where did $2000 come from? Well anyways I feel that the last few feet of cable can indeed help. It is not about what is lost, but about what is gained. Very basically most aftermarket cables are shielded. This help with EMI and RFI. Also I feel that the extra capacitance of the cable helps clean out the dirty juice. Yes AC is converted to DC, but dirty noise needs to be filtered out. Why else would people rave about battery powered gear? In another PC thread I was interested in whether or not a 6 foot cable would sound better than a 3 foot cable, or a 3 better than a 6.

greg2350

BlueFox wrote: »

First you were talking about $1000 cables. Now you are talking about $2000 cables. Has there been that much inflation in the last hour?

Also, not to disappoint you, but designing rockets does not mean you know everything. Even in your field of expertise. Sorry. :rolleyes:

$50 cables $100 cables $1,000 cables $2,000 cables point was expensive cables in general. Didnt say he who knew everything just said he knows alot about elecricty and he designes the guidence system not the rockets themselves (READ WHAT I SAID) Thats what he does know but over his career has worked on alot of different things involving electricty, Thats what I meant by his experience.:rolleyes:

snow

greg2350 wrote: »

Yeah that may be a quote from a magazine but its fact. I wish my dad would join this forum just for this thread. He has a masters degree in electrical engineering worked for TI for 23 yrs and now works for raytheon so he knows a thing or 2 about electricity, according to him that quote from whatever magazine from 10 yrs ago is absolutely true that last 3 ft isnt going to make an audible difference. Doesnt matter he could type 10 pages of fact in here and you guys still wouldnt believe it even coming from an expert and he would qualify as an expert. He says you could take the same amp, speakers power cord setup hookup in a house take it to the power station and plug it in then you would hear a difference. If you have old wiring in your house then the last 3 ft power cord isnt going to improve the dirty power coming into your house or improve the old wiring. Ill get flamed for my statements but dont really care I trust what he says not because hes my dad but because he has plenty of experience and knowledge dealing with electricity. His knowledge of electricty goes well beyond your electrician you call to do some wiring in your house.

Unless you have a dogs hearing I think all these cables that cost $1000,s of dollars are stupid, I feel you would get more improvement in SQ spending that money on source, power, and speakers more than spending that kinda money on cables.:biggrin:

On a personal level I could care less if your father is Albert Einstein. Listen and look for yourself and then tell us your oppinion not your fathers.

BlueFox wrote: »

A good engineer has an open mind, and understands our knowledge is still at the bottom of the learning curve. Otherwise, he is a poor engineer.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-indepth.html

Agreed 100% I am skeptical of many things but I have lived long enough to know that I can be wrong and to dismiss a claim out of hand without a personal trial is both close minded and shows an unwillingness to further ones knowledge, sad indeed.

greg2350 wrote: »

Thats about the responses I expected its cool flame on I will still sleep good tonight. He must not be to poor of an engineer when he designs the guidence systems on the the missles our military use.:rolleyes:

My point was I feel that spending that kinda money on source, amp or speakers will render more improved SQ than buying $2,000 cables

Not once did I mention a dollar value to spend on PC's I think that if it is indeed true that quality PC's can make a difference in either audio or video it can be achieved at a much lower cost than 2k. In fact I think that one should be able to find a good quality used PC for less than $100.00 to experiment with.



REGARDS SNOW

greg2350

snow wrote: »

On a personal level I could care less if your father is Albert Einstein. Listen and look for yourself and then tell us your oppinion not your fathers.

Personal:rolleyes: you guys take the cable debates personally Pops wasnt stating his opinion just facts. I have tried the expensive cables and my OPINION was my ears said to my brain cant hear the difference wasnt worth the money.:rolleyes:

ben62670

greg2350 wrote: »

...I have tried the expensive cables and my OPINION was my ears said to my brain cant hear the difference wasnt worth the money.:rolleyes:

You're a lucky man Greg

Systems

In another PC thread I was interested in whether or not a 6 foot cable would sound better than a 3 foot cable, or a 3 better than a 6.

I got this from a very respected member on another forum:

Only particular power cable designs with filtering aspects (not to be confused with shielding) require long lengths for optimized performance.

ben62670

It would be nice to know what he meant about filtering aspects.

BlueFox

ben62670 wrote: »

You're a lucky man Greg

No ****. :biggrin: