The SVS has landed!!!!!!

VR3 · August 2003

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
OK, I dredged up that pic from Off Topic - here I am, the REAL Dr. Spec:

Looks like you have a antler going straight into your ear......and your eyes lit up and went on as a game show light bulb....;)

Tour2ma · August 2003

I think this is the original... the deer won...

faster100 · August 2003

was this my Svs thread? I forgot... But i'm kidding anyways..

I'm off this morning to get my slate on, wish me luck i find a nice heavy piece to place under the beast. will post pictures later if its nice enough for a photo shoot, LOL

Frank Z · August 2003

Originally posted by faster100
was this my Svs thread? I forgot... But i'm kidding anyways..

I'm off this morning to get my slate on, wish me luck i find a nice heavy piece to place under the beast. will post pictures later if its nice enough for a photo shoot, LOL

Your right, lets get back on track shall we!! Make sure you take some before and after SPL measurements to share with us. It would be interesting to see/read about the difference a slab makes. Looking forward to your results.

wallstreet · August 2003

Is it me, or is it that the SVS subs are way too big! Doc, you ever compared the SVS to a smaller Sunfire or Velodyne?

hoosier21 · August 2003

Originally posted by wallstreet
Is it me, or is it that the SVS subs are way too big! Doc, you ever compared the SVS to a smaller Sunfire or Velodyne?

You can't cheat physics, bass needs big drivers and big cabinets.

faster100 · August 2003

The old rule of thumb i remember , small enclosures need big power, larger cabinets require less power.. I think..

anyways.. I went to the rock shop, They had pieces of slate like material, he said it wasnt really slate..:rolleyes: So i told him what i was doing, he said i have something that will work.. A 24x24 steel reinforced concrete A/C slab.. 2" thick.. and heavy as heck..

works great in that space, seems real smooth.. he said this is about as dense as you can get.. This was a very large place that sold everything related to rock and stone.. cost $8.75

any suggestions on a treatment, paint? faux finish, glaze, I was thinking of glueing some marble tile on top to fancy it up.. 4 12x12" pieces should fit perfect.. would this rattle?? will it work??

Ok far as spl, watched the Jurrassic park 3 same scene as mentioned earlier.. only meter was chest level about a foot further then before which was at the front right corner of the couch arm.. first reading 8 foot from sub 108 db

second reading with the slab at 9' from sub 109-110 db peaks and above through that scene.. yet to check the Boo crying scene in monsters..

faster100 · August 2003

forgot the pic of the slab :rolleyes:

wallstreet · August 2003

Just wrap it in carpet.

dorokusai · August 2003

Simple and easy would be to seal it, then paint it, then seal it again. You could choose any color you wanted for that.

faster100 · August 2003

I have some tile sealer, wonder if that would work? will read the bottle.. do they make a glaze or top coat that would be shiney??

so what you guys think of the slab?? it will look better after its painted..

dorokusai · August 2003

TileLab makes a Matte and a Gloss sealer. You can buy it at Home Depot.

I think the slab is great, what an inexpensive tweak

You could also, use a concrete sealing paint, then paint a color, and finish with selaer. The options are limitless for what you can do in the color area.

Dr. Spec · August 2003

I think the slab looks great! That would be a piece of cake to seal and then paint.

But more important, how does it sound to you? Is the bass tighter and less boomy and more natural, and does the slab noticeably decrease vibration transmission through the wooden floor?

faster100 · August 2003

there he is, yes yes and yes.. 1-2db increase so far.. more solid.. I think it took care of the window rattle also.. only watched a few things.. just brought it home a short time ago.. this weekend will be for testing for sure, going to get my csi30 today also.. just installed my Monster lock banana's on the mains.. got them today also.. Spec , i posted a small review above about the slab..

I played some music also, I just need more demo time.. sit relax and listen, but the rattle is all but gone i do believe!! Great idea.. Guys

I installed the rubber feet on the pb1, I assume this is ok being its on concrete. sits better. I just love this sub, I'm glad i bought it and its the best item that i have noticed the biggest difference in, be it speakers, receivers, wire.. By far night and day. I take back all my previous comments where i defended my 404 sub.. " with stuff like" Its a great sub" It doesnt sound boomy.. its hits pretty hard" these are great and you don't have to pay thousands for them,

I don't agree on the new value based sub 500.00 range subs.. That's what makes SVS stand out, their not cheapo subs and there not thousands for a mid level sub of this size and degree of bass.. getting a cheaper sub line in the 300 range seems it will give people the wrong idea of quality.. maybe its just me, Plus its the excitement of having to save for it and wait for it,

kberg · August 2003

faster,

To be honest, I think the slab looks fine as is!

faster100 · August 2003

well its not bad, but its a living room not a deticated HT.. and a color would look better, I might try and get some paint color matched to the sub, minus the color variations (granite like look)

Dr. Spec · August 2003

I'm surprised you are getting any SPL increase at all.

I would have expected the exact opposite. By reducing vibration transmission to the floor, you also reduce the ability of the floor to create its own sound.

Its funny, but some HT designers/installers with wimpy subs actually recommend and install sub-floors over concrete slabs specifically for the purpose of increasing vibration and SPL at the key listening positions. Sort of like a pseudo buttkicker (tactile transducer). I have always thought this was an incredibly stupid idea and I have never heard a wooden floor built over an open space that came reven remotely close to the bass sound quality (not quantity) of a concrete slab.

The problem (if you can call it that) with a concrete floor, is that it is much harder for a sub to create the impression of being powerful, because you are completely eliminating floor boom and floor vibration. All that's left is pressurizing the air.

If your sub can - without the aid of a wooden floor - pressurize the air sufficiently to waffle your pants and shake the couch on HT special effects, it's a powerful sub. Because that is a very tough test for a sub on a concrete floor.

Doc

faster100 · August 2003

it truely did increase.. now i guess i had it on a tripod for the first test and held it in my hand the second time.. maybe it was in a small null and a foot over to the left was a bit better, i'm not for sure.

i sure know i love it and im having a great week!!!! Me and the wife decided on trying to get some color swatches from walmart to match as close as possible then going back or to home depot and have them mix us up a brownish/tan color for it..

burdette · August 2003

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
I'm surprised you are getting any SPL increase at all. I would have expected the exact opposite. By reducing vibration transmission to the floor, you also reduce the ability of the floor to create its own sound.

Wouldn't that depend somewhat on what frequencies from the sub are being eaten up by the floor, and the ratio of the power being taken by the floor to the SPL the floor produces? I mean... it would take different levels of power to get different floors moving in the first place. And, some floors would be better than other floors at acting as a driver for audio frequencies once they were moving. If you think about the floor as a passive radiator.. or even a 'port'... then the size, weight, etc. of the floor, plus furniture, etc, would determine exactly how much SPL you get... just like you can put different PR or even the same one with weight added to change the response.

Originally posted by Dr. Spec

If your sub can - without the aid of a wooden floor - pressurize the air sufficiently to waffle your pants and shake the couch on HT special effects, it's a powerful sub. Because that is a very tough test for a sub on a concrete floor.
Doc

My sub is on a concrete basement floor. Each time you throw out little comments like that, it revitalizes the complete lack of remorse I have at paying the money and putting in the design and build time to have a *good* sub. I've never regretted it for a moment, but I can sometimes forget *how much* I don't regret it.

Dr. Spec · August 2003

Originally posted by burdette
Wouldn't that depend somewhat on what frequencies from the sub are being eaten up by the floor, and the ratio of the power being taken by the floor to the SPL the floor produces? I mean... it would take different levels of power to get different floors moving in the first place. And, some floors would be better than other floors at acting as a driver for audio frequencies once they were moving. If you think about the floor as a passive radiator.. or even a 'port'... then the size, weight, etc. of the floor, plus furniture, etc, would determine exactly how much SPL you get... just like you can put different PR or even the same one with weight added to change the response.

I think we can agree on one thing - adding a wooden floor always adds some increase in boom and SPL, however small.

I agree, though, some wooden floors are much worse than others. What you are getting at is each structural has its own unique sympathetic resonance frequency (like the famous Tacoma Narrows Washington bridge disaster). In one house, I've seen a powerful sub turn the cheap wooden floor into a virtual trampoline, even 10 feet away. It was just the right size and rafter spacing and thickness, etc. for the sub to excite its resonance frequency and it sounded terrible. Standing under it in the basement below was even worse; the whole floor did indeed look like a huge passive radiator and you could actually feel the sound pressure it was creating.

Dr. Spec · August 2003

Originally posted by faster100 I just love this sub, I'm glad I bought it and it's the best item that I have noticed the biggest difference in, be it speakers, receivers, wire......by far night and day.

I take back all my previous comments where I defended my 404 sub with stuff like "it's a great sub", "it doesn't sound boomy" and "it hits pretty hard".

The BASS AUTHORITY strikes again. No BS comments from another satisfied customer. Wimpy subs beware; SVS wants in.

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/animation.htm

fireshoes · August 2003

That animation is TOO funny!

faster100 · August 2003

well just got my Csi30 center for rear duty via UPS!! I need to make or buy some sort of shelf now, angled because my couch is right on the back wall and the rear center will need to point down somewhat right?? or just fireing straight be sufficient? Let me know what the rules are on this one?

burdette · August 2003

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
I think we can agree on one thing - adding a wooden floor always adds some increase in boom and SPL, however small.

No, I don't think we agree on that.

If I understand you, you're saying that in all instances, the floor is essentially more efficient than the sub, because you say above that adding a wooden floor will always increase SPL in the room.

What I said was that I would think that whether the moving floor actually *INCREASED* SPL would depend on the specifics of the floor.. and that I believe the floor could absorb the power, but not necessarily convert that into sound pressure in the room.

I guess I don't see why output from the sub, being converted to movement of the floor, that being converted into sound pressure in the room, would *always* give more SPL than if ALL the sub's output were going directly to creating sound pressure in the room, avoiding that circuitous path.

We don't have to keep talking about this. I certainly don't claim to know all there is to know on transducers and energy conversion and efficiency. This is very much a "seems to me..." subject.

brettw22 · August 2003

burdette....I think that you guys are saying the same, just different. He's saying that a wooden floor for say a main floor in a house is going to have different characteristics than if that same sub is on the floor in the basement and on concrete. The floor on the wood floor is going to take the transfer from the sub, and through it's own resonance, create a sound in and of itself, whereas the concrete slab in the basement won't enhance/change/alter the sound because it's not moving because of the sub.

Same sub on different floor types is going to sound different in each room.....

burdette · August 2003

I was interested in this just from the learning perspective. No need to drag it out.

What I think we all.. ?.. agree on is if you've got a good sub sitting on a floor that will potentially resonate, you should probably get a good base underneath your bass.

My only real experience with a sub is the one I have now, and it is and always has been sitting on concrete.

faster100 · August 2003

Ok wow.. we just watched Jet Li's new movie Cradle 2 the grave..
alot of action and fight scenes.. Alot of solid bass and room pressure i guess you could call it. This slab does a good job of keeping the vibration down and still gives that full bass presense.. in explosions and fight scenes, punches.. Just wow.. my wife is impressed with it as well, enough said rigth there. Installed my shelf for my rear center csi30.. done alot over the last few days.. this sounds fantastic!!!!!!

I'm done, Happy what can i say.. just for kicks i will get a better sub cable though.. can it get much better?? will i notice a difference? I think not but just for principal i'll do it.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions and comments.. just gotta paint the slab, paint my new shelf, and its a weekend.

later, it's getting late... I'm tired from lugging speakers and concrete slabs around

dorokusai · August 2003

Obviously you don't need anymore compliments

Great subwoofer, you have truly traveled over to the "I am crazy zone" as far as audio nuts go....; )

faster100 · August 2003

Thanks Doro,,, this threads great!! 5 pages long.. on my pc anyways..

later all.

Dr. Spec · August 2003

Originally posted by brettw22
The floor on the wood floor is going to take the transfer from the sub, and through it's own resonance, create a sound in and of itself, whereas the concrete slab in the basement won't enhance/change/alter the sound because it's not moving because of the sub.

Yes, that is what I meant. I probably didn't explain it well, sorry.

If you jump up and down on a wooden floor, you can hear it boom and resonate through the entire house. It's quite deep and strong, actually. When one of the kid's falls on the floor upstairs, I can always feel it in my chest, and it always illicits a shout from one of the adults to the effect of "what the hell is going on up there!?".

The same cannot be said of a concrete floor, which generates no sound or air pressure or boom at all when you jump up and down or fall on it.

The reactive forces of a strong woofer, particularly a downward firing woofer, can illicit the same type of sound and pressure response from a wooden floor as a child jumping up and down on it.

The SVS has landed!!!!!!

Comments