Mubarak has RESIGNED

nooshinjohn

Timothy Smith wrote: »

Choices are usually never between pure good and pure bad. Some times it's between bad (Shah) and much worse (Kohmeini).

Happens every time a dictator is tossed. Out with the despot and in with the sado-masochistic nutjob. It has happened time and time again, in the former USSR, Germany, China, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela(the list is endless)...

We are fast becoming the only nation that respects the rule of law. We live in peace, no wonder why half the world wants to come here, and why the other half hates our guts.

tonyb

Man Mike, what do they do to those poor girls to grow their butts like that ?
How about some Brazillian pie, some of the most beautiful women on the planet.

Jstas

tonyb wrote: »

How about some Brazillian pie, some of the most beautiful women on the planet.

Half of them aren't women.

markmarc

Timothy Smith wrote: »

I am not trying to "bait" you.

I think that your honest answers to my three questions are: No, No, and No.
But you avoided answering them.

Choices are usually never between pure good and pure bad. Some times it's between bad (Shah) and much worse (Kohmeini).

I don't think the Iranian people "fell under the spell". Do you think they are ignorant or children? They supported, or vocal minorities supported, Kohmeini, then they got next guy, then the next guy, then Ahmedinajad. I also blame our weak and clueless President (Carter), radical islamists, other Middle Eastern countries who are enemies of the US, Leftist Americans and Europeans, and even the Soviet Union who was not above making trouble for the US to their advantage.

Please give me your possible hopeful (but reality based) scenario of how this situation in Egypt is going to play out ending up with more freedom for the Egyptian people, and less danger of violence and war in the middle east. I just don't see it. I think that if you try to write it down it will look naive, but give it a try.

I answered "NO", and of course "NOT", (two of the questions were the same) and that is avoiding answering?!

When leaders lose the consent of who they govern, either by election or by no longer fearing their rule, change will happen either quickly or over longer period of time. Outside gov'ts have little control.

As for me being naive, don't bet on it. Right now their are thousands of different pieces in play and levels of interwoven details regarding the future of Egypt that no one in the forum have a clue about. I'll let the experts at the CIA and State Dept. play that game. In the meantime I'll pray for a peaceful Egyptian future, both internally and externally. That may seem like a copout, but in reality none of us have any real ability to influence the situation otherwise.

nooshinjohn

markmarc wrote: »

As for me being naive, don't bet on it. Right now their are thousands of different pieces in play and levels of interwoven details regarding the future of Egypt that no one in the forum have a clue about. I'll let the experts at the CIA and State Dept. play that game...

Experts??? How naive:rolleyes:...

The CIA are a collective bunch of idiots and should be disbanded. The State Department is not much better, and neither saw this coming. The CIA's list of failures is as epic as it is legendary.

markmarc wrote: »

In the meantime I'll pray for a peaceful Egyptian future, both internally and externally. That may seem like a copout, but in reality none of us have any real ability to influence the situation otherwise.

Agreed 1000%. They will need all the prayers they can get.

Demiurge

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Experts??? How naive:rolleyes:...

The CIA are a collective bunch of idiots and should be disbanded. The State Department is not much better, and neither saw this coming. The CIA's list of failures is as epic as it is legendary.

I don't know that I'd go that far, but this was priceless:

Leon Panetta wrote:

“No worries, Mubarak will be stepping down by the end of the day.”

American officials said Mr. Panetta (CIA Director) was basing his statement not on secret intelligence but on media broadcasts, which began circulating before he sat down before the House Intelligence Committee

Ricardo

Guys, listen to noosh. looks like he knows a lot.

:rolleyes:

Timothy Smith

markmarc wrote: »

I answered "NO", and of course "NOT", (two of the questions were the same) and that is avoiding answering?!

When leaders lose the consent of who they govern, either by election or by no longer fearing their rule, change will happen either quickly or over longer period of time. Outside gov'ts have little control.

As for me being naive, don't bet on it. Right now their are thousands of different pieces in play and levels of interwoven details regarding the future of Egypt that no one in the forum have a clue about. I'll let the experts at the CIA and State Dept. play that game. In the meantime I'll pray for a peaceful Egyptian future, both internally and externally. That may seem like a copout, but in reality none of us have any real ability to influence the situation otherwise.

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude.

It takes guts for you (and anyone else)to put your opinions in writing, because at that point you open yourself up for criticism, and I admire you for that.

But if you see parallels between what happened in Iran and what is happening now in Egypt, and you do in fact do answer my questions as:

1) YES: The Iranian (the average person) people are worse off now
2) YES: Iran as a country is worse off now (a different question)
3) YES: The world is worse off now with today's Iran

How can you say in retrospect..."yeah but the Shah was evil so something had to change".

And how can you say currently.."it's just too complicated and confusing..let the experts deal with it" I don't think the current crop of "experts" has any real understanding or control, especially when they are first and foremost thinking about how to spin whatever happens so that it looks like Obama can take credit or sidestep blame.

I do agree with you that we should all pray.

vc69

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Experts??? How naive:rolleyes:...

The CIA are a collective bunch of idiots and should be disbanded. The State Department is not much better, and neither saw this coming. The CIA's list of failures is as epic as it is legendary.

Good grief John, you absolutely grate against my every nerve when you insinuate that you know so much more than the rest of us.

I'd put you on my ignore list but you are so damned entertaining sometimes.

mrbigbluelight

It all boils down to the USA can't install and keep a good old fashioned dictator in power anymore. What's the world coming to !

Where's the United Fruit Company and their allies when you need them. :rolleyes:


BTW: Keiko should be the next Caliph of Egypt.

nooshinjohn

vc69 wrote: »

Good grief John, you absolutely grate against my every nerve when you insinuate that you know so much more than the rest of us.

I'd put you on my ignore list but you are so damned entertaining sometimes.

Sorry VC... I do spend a lot of time on the Discovery Channel. There are more than a few in this thread that agree with my take on this, so I am curious why it is only me that gets on your nerves. PM me if you like, and we can talk about that...
I don't know more than anyone else, much less actually. I am however a student of history, and if this mess stays true to the past, it is not hard to see what comes next. I would be as pleased as everyone if representative democracy, even that based on the European model, takes root there and flourishes. I would LOVE to be wrong on this. I PRAY that I am.

I am glad I can at least provide you a laugh or two.:cool:

cnh

Yep! And good for you! Sounds like you had a great educational experience! Dave is a bit 'naughty', we had him give a talk a while back, now back to our ONGOING coverage on the CIA, State Department and the future of Egypt?

cnh

Jstas wrote: »

You mean this one?

http://abahlali.org/files/Graeber.pdf

A political science and philosophy teacher from school that I kept in contact with after I graduated had told me about it and mailed me his copy to read back in 2005. It was on a naughty list and because of my job sensitivity, I couldn't buy the book without causing a problem for myself. So he mailed it to me and let me borrow it. It's interesting. There is another book I have that was required reading in the teacher's political science class but it's buried in boxes at home. I'll have to dig it out to remember what the title is.

But I learned about the distinction in, believe it or not, The Boy Scouts. One of the required badges for rank advancement is Citizenship in the Nation. The requirements are different now but when I had to take it one of the requirements was to be able to make the distinction between a democracy and a republic. Since my merit badge counselor was the political science head at Rutgers University, I kinda didn't get a pass on "coming close". So I learned the difference when I was 13.

[Deleted User]

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

BTW: Keiko should be the next Caliph of Egypt.

I agree but he's not that "hip". Sorry Mike, couldn't resist. :biggrin:

nooshinjohn

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

BTW: Keiko should be the next Caliph of Egypt.

Let them eat PIE!:biggrin:

nooshinjohn

Thanks for that Mike... I forgot all about that one.


I can only imagine the harem you would have... your Majesty!

cnh

You have 'my' vote, Mike!

cnh

tonyb

I don't get what it was John said so off base. I mean really, when you have the head of the CIA making statements based not on intel, but...the media news channels ? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to think somethings wrong with that. I won't speak for John, but I take it he ment as a worse case scenario, and he points out with a hope for the best,as we all do. It would only be prudent to consider worse case scenarios so you can at least be prepared for them or at least try to avoid them. Much the same way we do in our own lives. Weigh the risks and the rewards. Whats so tin foil hat about that ?
On a side note, I see the swiss have frozen Mubarak's accounts...and his sons. I know he also has coin in Germany though, we shall see if they follow suit. Though, they haven't said why they froze them, seeing he hasn't been charged with a crime. Could be an excuse for the swiss not to pay any interest on billions of dollars, just a thought.

ohskigod

Egypt will become an Islamic state, I don;t even get how there is an argument on this, call it "knee jerk" call it"a pessimistic outlook of multiple scenarios" call it what you will.

I call it **** thats just gonna happen

The women in that country (especially the educated ones that can read) better get the hell out of there quick.

Egyptian pie? yeah, hope you like it slathered in a fresh Burka compote

ohskigod

tonyb wrote: »

. I mean really, when you have the head of the CIA making statements based not on intel, but...the media news channels ? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to think somethings wrong with that..

you think that's bad? Panetta is a cornucopia of competence compared to James Clapper.


Apparently the MUSLIM brotherhood is secular in nature, and really not into violence according to him.
He's our Director of National Intelligence ladies and gentleman. Panetta, by virtue of watching the news, is infinitely more knowledgeable then this idiot. How does this guy still have a frikkin job? How did he get the job in the first place?!?!

Me, and an internet capable Ipad could do a better job!!

http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/10/dni_james_clapper_muslim_brotherhood_a_largely_secular_group.html

Anyone worried that this administration has not got us covered in foreign affairs vis a vis sizing people up that want to kill us? I am.

tonyb

Foreign affairs ?? Don't you recall, that was what Biden was for. What a joke. Muslim brotherhood....the same people who spurned Hamas, Al Quida, Taliban, yeah, quite the layed back democracy average joe types.
I do agree, the radicals will get a big foot hold, can't see it going any other way. Just like when we leave Iraq, 10 years, countless lives lost, for what ? To save face ? The extremist will march back in and another name will be on the door. It's a waiting game. They know we can't stay forever. The only ones with any power in that region to bring stability is the muslim extreme. They create turmoil, enough so you beg for the killings to stop, work to appear, food to eat, and they gallop in with the solution to your problems. Just like in Iran. See a pattern ? See the same pattern anywhere else in the world ? Better yet, have you asked yourself lately if our own gov. isn't doing the same thing ? Everything they do puts a strangle hold on the economy,makes life tougher for the average buisness,or citizen. From oil, to the EPA,FDA, to obamacare,to border security, to lack of jobs, to bailouts, to devalueing the dollar, to czars,national debt, taxes on the rise,food prices going up, to global warming and carbon credits, and now we hear of another bailout for the states. One would almost think, is this on purpose ? An arguement could be made.

F1nut

Egypt will become an Islamic state

You can take that one to the bank!

mrbigbluelight

Just hope this unrest in Egypt doesn't spread to Club Polk !

On the one hand, we have our current red-blooded American CP President, F1. Tried and true.

On the other hand ..... Keiko and his band of potential Talibanners .... no......Tallywhackers. Could he be trying to establish an Islamic .... no .... an Insomniac State here with his Weapons of **** Construction !!! :eek:

Are we revolting ? :eek:

Dean Martin didn't give Jerry Lewis straight lines that good

I'll have to see further proof of these WAC before I can make an informed decision.

nooshinjohn

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

On the other hand ..... Keiko and his band of potential Talibanners .... no......Tallywhackers. Could he be trying to establish an Islamic .... no .... an Insomniac State here with his Weapons of **** DESTRUCTION !!! :eek:

Fixed!

Are we revolting ? :eek:

Yes... or at least I am. You don't want to see me nekkid, trust me on that one!

schwarcw

Mike, you are my hero!

There is a pie for every situation!

DMara

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/18/egypt.iran.warships/index.html?hpt=T2

Today's news doesn't look like there's gonna be peace in the Middle East anytime soon

nooshinjohn

nooshinjohn wrote: »

What is forming there is called a "Caliphate", and the "democratic" movements happening across the region have the singular goal of establishing "Islamic-Socialism" in each member state, and governed by Sharia Law...

I said this way back on page one. I was called out a bit for being paranoid and overly concerned about this "peaceful" revolution that was taking place. How do you feel about that now??? I hate being right about any of this, but we must pay attention to history, and prepare for what is coming our way. Even in Wisconsin, a revolt of sorts is occuring, and members of their legislature have fled the state rather than face a vote that would go against their union allies. Thankfully, demonstrations in the U.S. are most always peaceful, but it does show the seeds of discontent are beginning to sprout even here at home. Many of the protesters in Wisconsin have called for an Egypt-like overthrow of the state government and comparing their Governor to Mubarak, or worse.

Iran is doing everything in their considerable power to bring about a Caliphate in the middle east and to hasten the return of the Mahdi, otherwise known as the 12th Imam, but it does not end there. Just like Communism or Nazism, the "twelvers" as they are called, have set their sights on global control, and are deadly serious in their ambitions. This gets WAY off into the religious aspects behind it, so I will say nothing more than the correlation between the Mahdi and the antichrist as fortold by Revelation is terrifying.

The FACT that the leaders of Iran believe they are creating the conditions needed for the Imam's return is what drives this unrest in the Muslim world. This is not just some random occurence, and without Iron-Strong leadership on the part of the United States and her western allies, we may just be seeing the beginning salvoes of WWIII.

I am not trying to be a prophet of doom here. I am looking at history and what has happened before, and the parallels between this and the lead-up to the first World War are very much the same. I have said it countless times..."do your homework". I will also go on record now and say be prepared.

kevhed72

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Even in Wisconsin, a revolt of sorts is occuring, and members of their legislature have fled the state rather than face a vote that would go against their union allies. .

Sooo, this would be named the "Cheese Revolution". I can see it now, hundreds of Wisconsin folks donning foam cheese heads and protesting outside of Madison, "Ya hey der...nobody's gonna take away our right to bargain!"

(sorry, the image popped in my head and I couldn't resist)

brettw22

All I know is that whatever I don't know, I'm going to learn it tonight on Fox News......

nooshinjohn

Better source than the Huffypost or Mediamatters, and yes I read them as well. I do not form my opinions on anything until I have done my own homework, and I encourage others to do the same thing.

I would rather carry an umbrella in the sunshine than be all wet when the rain does come, and it always does when you least expect it.

tonyb

Well John, looks like more is afoot up in Cheesehead land.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/class-war-is-here-video-of-socialists-rallying-in-wis-supports-becks-theory/

Yeah, I took it off of Becks site, but the video is priceless. With the afl-cio backing some of these nutjobs and making some pretty wacky statements themselves,one has to wonder.