How good are your speakers?

Howmuch

Hello to everyone
I am doing over my Ht system but seem to find myself feeling like the guy with a small ding dong at a **** party when I see speakers in the $1000 up categories. I mean in your honest opinions how much better can a speaker that cost $5000 be compared to a good all round speaker ,say the tsi500's. I know you get what you pay for but that has to be up to a point. If you are lucky enough to be able to buy a very expensive set of speakers does that also mean that you need to pay the same for your amp and audio-source to in order to appreciate them.
Sorry for the newbie post but as a music lover I always wondered what I was missing.

tonyb

If you ever wondered what your missing, theres only one way to find out,right?
Normally your associated gear steps up with your speakers, true, but then again,wouldn't you want to ? There's a whole world of sound heads and shoulders above what the tsi500's can do. While a decent speaker on it's own, there's just too much out there to stay stagnant. I guess if you never hear anything better, in your mind it doesn't exist, so if your happy, don't go out looking for better, your sure to find it.

Cayuga

Well said tonyb, being happy aint bad!

zingo

Do you have the opportunity to listen to different audio systems whether at a HIFI shop or a friend's house? The only way you will be able to answer that question for yourself is to do some listening yourself. The sound reproduced by your audio equipment is 100% preference, which means some people have expensive systems and some people don't. Can more expensive speakers/equipment sound better? Absolutely. But it's the same way with anything in life...

Howmuch

I absolutely believe that an expensive speaker sounds better buuut....to what degree? A $200 speaker may sound twice as good as a $100 dollar speaker ,a $400 dollar speaker may even sound twice as good as a $200 speaker and so on to a point. However theres a point where the money your spending is only making a fractional difference to the sound quality. Im guessing here but it seems like from $0-$1000 dollars you may be getting 95% sound quality, $1000 up is the other 5%. Please tell me what percentage you feel are appropriate.
10 years ago even 20, were your speakers crap? No! Despite all the technical information and hype, how much better have speakers truly got. After a certain price range we seem to be chasing musical ghost.

gsxr141

for what it's worth... i just picked up a new set of tsi400's for my ht setup, and they sound great. i also put a used set of infinity sm62's in the bedroom, and i think they sound incredible. i say this, because i believe every speaker is going to sound different to different people.
my thinking is, get the best product in the price range you are comfortable in.

danz1906

System matching is very important to getting the best sound out of
whatever speakers you have.

Howmuch

O.K last ramblings on this topic for me but I've just been checking a ton of speakers over the $200,000 range(no thats not a mis-type).
COME ON! Please somebody defend this craziness. Any sound engineers out their .Are you trying to tell me that the sound reproduction and THD is over a 1000% better (for the price) and that wasn't even the most expensive speaker > Come on Polk make a speaker for a million dollars so someone can buy it!

blueboxer

As you said previously, you often get what you paid for, but equally true is the law of diminishing return. My first system was a Yamaha HT in a box that I bought as a store demo for $200. My next system consisted of a Yamaha AVR and Boston Acoustic VR's all around, which at a heavy discount was about $3500. Was the difference in sound quality equal to that of the cost? No, but was it worth it to me? Absolutely, it was in my opinion. Since then I have been slowly climbing up the chain from receivers to separates, higher end cables, etc...

The cost-benefit of each improvement seems to be diminishing more and more each time, but ocassionally I will find something relatively inexpensive that shocks me in its performance. It is all trial and error, tasting different offerings, and deciding for yourself. My current speakers retail for about $6,000 and I am at the point where I am paying that amount just for two speakers without even blinking an eye, especially after listening to various offerings from multiple manufacturers and price points. I still feel that my current speakers were a great value, but I also hear the improvements that could be had with other setups.

There is always the flip side, and my friend who bought my first Yamaha system for $100 still uses it, loves it, and feels no need to look further.

Howmuch

blueboxer for you....Transmission Audio Ultimate $2,000,000.
I'm only kidding ,I know what you mean . I'm just venting about some of these crazy prices and crazier claims.
Sad thing is by the time we can afford high end stuff some of our hearing range has already started to decrease

ben62670

What is your budget? For music I would recomend the LSi's with a good pre and an amp.

98Badger

Howmuch wrote: »

Hello to everyone
I am doing over my Ht system but seem to find myself feeling like the guy with a small ding dong at a **** party when I see speakers in the $1000 up categories. I mean in your honest opinions how much better can a speaker that cost $5000 be compared to a good all round speaker ,say the tsi500's. I know you get what you pay for but that has to be up to a point. If you are lucky enough to be able to buy a very expensive set of speakers does that also mean that you need to pay the same for your amp and audio-source to in order to appreciate them.
Sorry for the newbie post but as a music lover I always wondered what I was missing.

I was in the same place you are at about 2-3 years ago. At the time I thought spending $500 on just two speakers was borderline nuts. I really believed they would be the last speakers I would buy for the next 10+ years. Well, three speaker upgrades later, I'm at the Paradigm S8's. For many of us the improvement becomes an addiction and it's worth the extra cost involved. I used to try to rationalize by figuring out the cost per hour of listening to music (usually 3-4 hours a day). Now I don't worry about it and just enjoy the tunes. Will it be the same for you? Only time will tell.

mantis

It looks to me you just entered this hobby. Judging on your comments I feel it's safe to assume.

Speakers for home audio can cost 100 buck to upwards 100K plus. I have Installed speakers in these price ranges and they are incredible. Ever drive a BMW and a chevy? What about a Hyundai and a Porsche? Different class speakers for different class budgets and taste.
Some like to get to work and some like to do it with style. Some like comfort and superior drivability , Some just want to get to the store.
I suggest you take your music and start visiting Hi Fi shops and learn why speakers cost more . It's not always about being better. It's about being better for the one listening.

Howmuch

Hi Mantis
Unfortunately I'm not really new to this and thats the problem. After 20 years of buying components and speakers ,same questions ,same debates . So I thought maybe to hear this Magic sound I might need to spend Tons of money .Thats why i ask if these expensive speaker really sound that good.

ben62670

Don't read specs. Take reviews with a grain of salt. Use your ears as final judgment. Bring familiar well recorded music with you when you audition.
Don't look at price tags before you listen!

tonyb

Think of it like eating plain vahnilla ice cream your whole life, and then walking into a 33 flavors store.
I guess it comes down to how important the sound is and what your willing to pay for it. Some are happy with a 200 buck HTIB, others need the latest and greatest. Like I said, if you have no urge to seek out better sound, stay home and enjoy what you have.

polkfarmboy

Howmuch wrote: »

Hi Mantis
Unfortunately I'm not really new to this and thats the problem. After 20 years of buying components and speakers ,same questions ,same debates . So I thought maybe to hear this Magic sound I might need to spend Tons of money .Thats why i ask if these expensive speaker really sound that good.

I say yes

I done the whole cone speaker thing and wanted something different without spending 10000 dollars so I bought myself some electrostats. After hearing electrostatic speakers I thought this was a great move and it never cost me lots of money

You can buy a pair of martin logan source for $670 per speaker and thats rock bottom price right there . Maybe you should try something technically different if your not happy with cones and domes .

The folded motion tweeter tech was invented in the 1970 and patented but it seems that martin logan bought this tech and it sounds way better than a dome tweeter when it comes to Ht and they sell for cheap

I would say buy yourself some cheap magnepan mmg for $600 a pair and enjoy a 40% difference in sound

mdaudioguy

Of course there's the law of diminishing returns, but it does imply returns nonetheless. If I was wealthy - really wealthy - I'd be finding out for myself how good those $200,000 speakers might sound. My goal? To one day spend even more than I already have on this hobby. I've only just begun. I say whatever the market will bear is a fair price. I understand that a speaker that costs more than a car (or possibly a house, for that matter) seems exorbitant to you, so it's easy to dismiss it as ridiculous and not worth your money. But, if they're actually selling them to customers, then those people can justify the expenditure.

Look at it this way: Say you catch a cab into the city to grab a bite to eat. The further you drive into the city, the more pricey the restaurants. Where do you choose to get out? Will the food be better than all of the restaurants you passed earlier? If you stay in the cab longer, is your meal guaranteed to be better? Only by stopping and eating at some of those places will you ever be able to know. Perhaps you think the hot roast beef sandwich with fries at the diner is to die for... So why go further? Maybe the steak at the bistro will be even better... I don't know what you'll think of it, but I can guarantee you it will cost more. And then there's that place that also serves steak, but also has an incredible ambiance... and an award-winning dessert menu! Choices, choices....
Ah, you can always just get that hot roast beef sandwich and stop at Dairy Queen on the way home.

cnh

No offense Howmuch, but this thread sounds fishy to me? You've been in the hobby for 20 years and you don't have any idea of how a 200 dollar pair of speakers compares to a 20K pair?

Also, you have two issues above. HT and Two Channel. It's a lot easier to do HT and I, personally, would NOT spend an arm and a leg doing it. I've heard 100K systems in that range and they're better than a mid-fi system but the law of diminishing returns is REALLY kicking in by that price point?

Now on the two channel side things are a lot more rarefied and you can spend quite a bit more than "I" have there. And that will bring some tangible improvements. Of course it's NOT simply PRICE but WHAT you put 'together'.

In conclusion. I do hope this is an honest thread.

cnh

F1nut

Im guessing here but it seems like from $0-$1000 dollars you may be getting 95% sound quality, $1000 up is the other 5%. Please tell me what percentage you feel are appropriate.

Your math is flawed.

Howmuch

Let me try to put this another way.
If a sound engineer with all his high tech gadgets were to measure the sound output from a $1000 speaker and one from a $10,000 dollar speaker how much variation do you think he will get. Do you see where I'm coming from . Taking away preference and looks ,what will the numbers say.
If anyone has true data or links I would love to read them.
If a speakers only job is to output the source its given ,as accurately as possible.Then should this not be an easy test for a sound analyzer?
At what price point is the AVERAGE person going to find it hard to discern the difference from one speaker to the next.
Please understand I know more expensive speakers will technically reproduce sound better but wheres the plateau at what price point does the diminishing returns start to kick in. If a person asked your advice on how much to spend for a Pair of good speakers, at what price point would you feel comfortable starting at (and no you dont know their budget )

F1nut

Your questions have no answer. Perhaps this isn't the hobby for you.

VR3

I would say the 4-5000 mark is the 95%

Everything after that is getting the remainder

BlueFox

This is sort of an interesting thread, although it feels like a speaker/power cable troll thread.

Anyway, my current speakers are $5K list for a pair. So far, they have worked very well, since over the last year I have made a number of changes that resulted in better and better sound. However, I am wondering whether I should go crazy and upgrade to speakers in the 15K area. For example, in that range there are Thiel CS 3.7, B&W 802D, and Wilson Sophia speakers, and I'm sure others. I seriously doubt if they did not work quite well there would not be a market for them. Yet, there is.

Of course, if I do buy them then I will need to upgrade my speaker wires to around the $5K area. Oh well. :rolleyes:

PolkClyde

ben62670 wrote: »

Don't read specs. Take reviews with a grain of salt. Use your ears as final judgment. Bring familiar well recorded music with you when you audition.
Don't look at price tags before you listen!

I agree with you...I'm about to spend some bucks on a new pair of speakers.but hey,they came out in 1988,am I going backwards,or what? ha ha ha.

ben62670

From his responses I would guess another troll. He is completely dodging all the preferences and use your own ears type of statements going to what engineers and measurements say. Sounds like one of those guys that believes if two amps have the same specs then they have the same sound. It could be that he just has been misinformed all his life. Who knows, but I am done offering any opinions to fall on deaf ears.
Later
Have fun
Ben

PolkClyde

cnh wrote: »

No offense Howmuch, but this thread sounds fishy to me? You've been in the hobby for 20 years and you don't have any idea of how a 200 dollar pair of speakers compares to a 20K pair?

Also, you have two issues above. HT and Two Channel. It's a lot easier to do HT and I, personally, would NOT spend an arm and a leg doing it. I've heard 100K systems in that range and they're better than a mid-fi system but the law of diminishing returns is REALLY kicking in by that price point?

Now on the two channel side things are a lot more rarefied and you can spend quite a bit more than "I" have there. And that will bring some tangible improvements. Of course it's NOT simply PRICE but WHAT you put 'together'.

In conclusion. I do hope this is an honest thread.

cnh

I thought,at $5,000 the law of diminishing returns,have walked n the door and took a seat,instead of just "kicking in" at the 100k price point.

dorokusai

How good? Awesome....any other questions I can thoroughly answer?

PolkClyde

BlueFox wrote: »

This is sort of an interesting thread, although it feels like a speaker/power cable troll thread.

Anyway, my current speakers are $5K list for a pair. So far, they have worked very well, since over the last year I have made a number of changes that resulted in better and better sound. However, I am wondering whether I should go crazy and upgrade to speakers in the 15K area. For example, in that range there are Thiel CS 3.7, B&W 802D, and Wilson Sophia speakers, and I'm sure others. I seriously doubt if they did not work quite well there would not be a market for them. Yet, there is.

Of course, if I do buy them then I will need to upgrade my speaker wires to around the $5K area. Oh well. :rolleyes:

But,wouldn't your feelings get hurt,if you go over to someone's house and hear an old inexpensive Radio Shack system,that has that it factor,that yours doesn't.I bet someone here,have experience something like that.

Tony M

Sounds like he's allready made his/her mind up.....sad.

I had my revelation when I heard my AMT 1D's with the Heil midrange/tweeter folded pleats design. Right then, I realized why they sold for 1200.00 a pair.

Then years later, I heard my OHM WALSH 2's. Again, costly for the size and weight but oh what a sound. I had a rare wood finish too. These guys/gals need to realize components and optional finishes in and out of these products cost $. Look at those Aluminum towers that sell for 50,000.00. The reviewers say they sound pretty amazing.....They probably do in my humble opinion.

I'm soooooo glad I have this audio realm as one of my hobbies. My readings in audio mags show me where I stand in society.

dorokusai

PolkClyde wrote: »

But,wouldn't your feelings get hurt,if you go over to someone's house and hear an old inexpensive Radio Shack system,that has that it factor,that yours doesn't.I bet someone here,have experience something like that.

I've never listened to a setup based on generic gear or garbage, that sounded better than even my well thought out...generic setup.

Have I heard less expensive rigs, that were actually built or assembled by someone who knows what they're doing AND they sounded as good or better than my rig? Yes, of course I have, that's awesome.

I keep my rigs based in reality and modestly priced so not only does that allow me to enjoy a huge array of quality gear, it also keeps me grounded in my perspective. It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion.

There's nothing better than hearing something great....if not awesome and it's not all boutique gear. I'm no creditcardophile since anyone can do that and it's even been done on here over the years.

The only reason I know anything about audio is because I've assembled, owned and experimented with things that would make a more expensive system look stupid. There no greater feeling than embarrassing the guy you don't really like anyways, with a drop dead setup....for far less money.