NFL Happenings...

Jstas

Well, if you don't know by now, Mangini was canned by the Browns. Justifiably so IMO.

But what you might not know is that Leslie Frazier is the new head coach of the Vikings.

Also, Brett Favre says "...it's time to end the career." Can he be believed? Is it actually his choice or is he admitting reality in that the Vikings have already said 2011 will be the year without Favre and nobody in their right minds would take him?

DeMarcus Ware, on what many sports writers (well, people in general) unfairly call (at least IMO) the worst defense in the league gains the sack title for the year with 15.5 sacks. He should probably thank the Eagles over-rated offensive line for making it happen giving up 3 sacks to Ware alone and 6 total for pushing Ware over the top.

The Giants are bringing back Coughlin for next year. Good move IMO, he's not the problem. Flaky Eli is. Don't fire the coach over the player's screw ups.

Goodell says that there will be a CBA. Says that the NFL needs to give a little but so does the Player's Union. Will there be a 2011 season? I hope so. If only for the sake of Lions fans. They stand the best chance in a looooooong time to get in to the playoffs next year. Especially if Stafford gets and stays healthy. If there is no season next year, I think that will set them back very far. That would be a shame.

So far, the only big story still left on the table with no reporting is Jason Garrett as the Cowboys head coach. Jerry said that the rumors about a decision are false but you can't believe a word that comes out of the guy's mouth. Garrett, even if he doesn't become head coach, is still under contract for another year as the offensive coordinator. If Jerry wants him and doesn't act fast, Garrett's gonna interview. He's shown he can do it and if Jerry lame ducks on him and a decision (I doubt that will happen), Garrett's gone. Lotsa places looking for a new coach.

Lotsa stuff up in the air still too. Apparently Philly is considering unloading Kolb. Dunno if that's a smart move. Vick gets beat up pretty bad and having Kafka as your backup is the worst bet in the entire NFL at this point.


Lots of shake-ups happening.

Here's the top 20 order for the draft though:

1. Carolina
2. Denver
3. Buffalo
4. Cincinnati
5. Arizona
6. Cleveland
7. San Francisco
8. Tennessee
9. Dallas
10. Washington
11. Houston
12. Minnesota
13. Detroit
14. St. Louis
15. Miami
16. Jacksonville
17. New England from Oakland
18. San Diego
19. New York Giants
20. Tampa Bay

Some serious implications there. Especially with talent heavy teams like Denver, Dallas and Washington having picks in the top 10 and being talent heavy and subsequently payroll heavy as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Dallas and Denver trade 1st and maybe even 2nd round picks for more lower rounds where picks do not demand such a price premium.

So what do you think?

Jstas

Whoops! New news while I was postin!

Texans announced Gary Kubiak is returning as head coach next season, but they fired the defensive coordinator, Frank Bush. Interesting news with that is ex Houston Oilers coach Bum Philips was seen meeting with McNair. This has fueled further speculation following the rumors that McNair is interested in Wade Philips as a defensive coordinator.

Houston also unloaded the following coaches:
Secondary Coach David Gibbs,
Linebackers Coach Johnny Holland
Assistant Linebackers Coach Robert Saleh

Looks to me like those rumors could be valid. Seems like Houston is cleaning house in preparation for a new defensive coaching staff which is usually what happens when you are lining up a new defensive coordinator with a very different style like...oh, I dunno....Wade Phillips?

Conradicles

I hope my Browns land Coach Gruden!!!

Thanks for the info Jstas.

thebluemonkey

Once again the jets season will end in downtown indy with jaba the ryan wondering what happened this time.

Jstas

Conradicles wrote: »

I hope my Browns land Coach Gruden!!!

Thanks for the info Jstas.

I dunno. Holmgren wants somebody to coach his way. Gruden has his own style. Not much like Holmgren at all. Then again, Holmgren was the guy who gave Gruden his first pro job in 1990 with the 49'ers. So at least Holmgren thinks highly of him. However, I think Fisher's days are numbered at Tennessee and if he gets the heave-ho there I think Holmgren will make a move to get Fisher. Others think Fisher might go to San Fran if he gets canned but San Fran seems hardcore about the other Harbaugh and I don't see much of a reason for him not to go to San Fran except maybe that University of Michigan gig. That one's a wait and see. But I think Fisher is a better fit to teh Browns than Gruden. If it was anybody else running the show in Cleveland I'd say Cowher was a prime candidate but Holmgren is god there and he wants someone who can play his game.


Oh and Jacksonville will not be unloading Del Rio who's Jaguars did not perform nearly as well as expected and had a mini-implosion in December.

greyford1979

I was listening to the Browns press conference on the way home from work today, not much of a surprise there.

kingtut

How come New England picks high in the 1st two rounds every year? They've got brilliant draft management.

WagnerRC

Holmgren needs to return to the sidelines. GREAT coach

obieone

kingtut wrote: »

How come New England picks high in the 1st two rounds every year? They've got brilliant draft management.

I honestly believe Belichick has been possessed by the spirit of Red Auerbach:rolleyes:

Fireman32

thebluemonkey wrote: »

Once again the jets season will end in downtown indy with jaba the ryan wondering what happened this time.

I disagree.

Conradicles

kingtut wrote: »

They've got brilliant draft management.

They really do and it seems like the rookies they pick end up being great players that stay with the team.

Conradicles

Cower in Cleveland would be a nice addition to the division as well. I got my fingers crossed, but not my hopes up...

nooshinjohn

Leslie Frasier will be lucky to take the Vikings to 8-8 next year. I don't know why Zigi did not at least try to get someone like Tony Dungy. He would have been a great fit. Unfortunately, my team needs a fundamental rebuild at just about every position, with exceptions made for running back and a few defensive spots. Hopefully they will be smarter in their draft this year and in the free agent markets.

It would not be the first time I am wrong, but I also think talking about a 2011 season is a loosing proposition, as the owners will not loose a dime from the TV rights should a strike occur, and the players seem unwilling to back down at this point. I hope there is a season next year, but the only thing certain is that the only losers next year will be the fans. If they strike, we loose out on one of our most treasured pastimes. If they play, we will most certainly bear the costs through higher ticket prices, at the concession stands, and NFL branded merchandise.

Tour2ma

One Brown's fan here somewhat sorry to see Mangini go. He shucked all the egos. He was building a team. Progress was clear, especially on the defensive side, but that stopped with Scott Fujita's injury.

I think we can do a lot worse. Other than Cohwer, who has zero interest in Cleveland, and Jeff Fisher, who still has a job as of now, I don't see any names above that I consider a serious upgrade.

Intesting list in the hometown paper...
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/01/as_mike_holmgren_casts_his_net.html

[Deleted User]

thebluemonkey wrote: »

Once again the jets season will end in downtown indy with jaba the ryan wondering what happened this time.

The real mystery here is if he'll have a "foot" to stand on. :eek:

[Deleted User]

Conradicles wrote: »

Cower in Cleveland would be a nice addition to the division as well. I got my fingers crossed, but not my hopes up...

That would be interesting, especially the first game at Pittsburgh. :cool:

inspiredsports

Tour2ma wrote: »

One Brown's fan here somewhat sorry to see Mangini go. He shucked all the egos. He was building a team. Progress was clear, especially on the defensive side, but that stopped with Scott Fujita's injury.

I think we can do a lot worse. Other than Cohwer, who has zero interest in Cleveland, and Jeff Fisher, who still has a job as of now, I don't see any names above that I consider a serious upgrade.

Intesting list in the hometown paper...
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/01/as_mike_holmgren_casts_his_net.html

I couldn't have said it better myself. I believe Mangini's system would have yielded great results once some real talent was plugged into it.

What we lack here is consistency. Without an incredible amount of luck, it takes more than 2 years to implement a new system/formula, but that is all we ever seem to give a new head coach around here. I'm perennially frustrated with the whole sports scene here. Thank God for music!

ballen823

Jstas wrote: »

Some serious implications there. Especially with talent heavy teams like Denver, Dallas and Washington having picks in the top 10 and being talent heavy and subsequently payroll heavy as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Dallas and Denver trade 1st and maybe even 2nd round picks for more lower rounds where picks do not demand such a price premium.

So what do you think?

I thought one of the main points in the new CBA was to not give these rookies ridiculous contracts anymore? Figure that's got to be one of the few points that the owners and players union will agree upon.

Jstas

ballen823 wrote: »

I thought one of the main points in the new CBA was to not give these rookies ridiculous contracts anymore? Figure that's got to be one of the few points that the owners and players union will agree upon.

That's not really decided yet and even if it is, I wouldn't expect it to be in place anytime before the 2012 season and more likely the 2014 season. They would have to push it out far enough so that the fresh talent that went in to college as freshman this year aren't going in with the assumption and goal to make that kind of money only to have their hopes and dreams that they based their academic career path on to be dash by a CBA of a bunch of people who have nothing to do with them. That affects their academic decisions which affect the rest of their lives. So if that goes to pass, it will have to take in to account where the talent is coming from. They have to give the students the chance to make the decision about their academic career before they get involved with the prospect of millions of dollars for a 1st round pick contract. Otherwise, it's unfair to to the students who basically get the bait and switch and it's unfair to the schools trying to woo talent and give them a prospect of riches and fame that would effectively be bargained out from under them without their say in the matter. Not that they should have one in the NFL honestly but it illustrates the chain reaction and problems that something like that can create.

Demiurge

WagnerRC wrote: »

Holmgren needs to return to the sidelines. GREAT coach

I think that's a bit of a stretch.

161-111 Regular Season
13-11 Post-Season

He has one Super Bowl win and two Super Bowl losses. A mongoloid with a loaded diaper could have coached the talent rich 96 Packers to a win.

He's definitely a good coach and I'm not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great. He really rode the hell out of his small time of glory in Green Bay out into a big bag of nothing ever since. Maybe I look at it differently, but I think all that matters is championships. I'm not satisfied by getting to the playoffs like some fans are.

As much as I hate Bellichick, that's a guy worthy of the title Great Coach, in my opinion.

Jstas

Demiurge wrote: »

I think that's a bit of a stretch.

161-111 Regular Season
13-11 Post-Season

He has one Super Bowl win and two Super Bowl losses. A mongoloid with a loaded diaper could have coached the talent rich 96 Packers to a win.

He's definitely a good coach and I'm not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great. He really rode the hell out of his small time of glory in Green Bay out into a big bag of nothing ever since. Maybe I look at it differently, but I think all that matters is championships. I'm not satisfied by getting to the playoffs like some fans are.

As much as I hate Bellichick, that's a guy worthy of the title Great Coach, in my opinion.

Good, someone else can be hated on for a while!

I agree with the assessment of Holmgren. He's good at managing talent, a position better served in the front office, not the sidelines. He really should step back and let his coaches coach but he can't and he won't and I kinda figured this would happen.

I don't think Mangini was that great of a coach. He had two years to clean things up and only managed a 10-22 W-L record. Granted, he was working with the Browns and bitched like crazy when he got the job that the talent pool was weak and his plan would work if he got some talent. Well, guess what. This year he got the talent and still didn't go anywhere special with it. In fact, he literally had back to back duplicate seasons. There was no growth at all. He had the plan, he had the talent and it did nothing. He won one more game than his predecessor. He didn't do anything spectacular on the Jets either except draw tabloid attention.

Cleveland, believe me, you're better off without Mangini. Lotsa other coaches on the market that would be a much better option. Gruden and Cowher are only two of them.

And yeah, Bellichick is a great coach. No matter what happens with his talent pool, he still manages to win. He did it even without Tom Brady, so that's not the only reason behind the Patriots success. He still pulls it out of his butt and wins. He is a great coach.

AsSiMiLaTeD

As much of a **** as he is, I think it's fairly obvious that Bellichick is clearly the best coach in the league.

Don't get me wrong, as a Colts fan I still hate the Patriots. But it's hard to deny the latent and it's ridiculous how much better he is at what he does than everyone else in the league.

That team is the class of the league from the ground up, everything from how they draft to how they coach and play. I've always thought highly of my Colts in the same regard and still believe they're one of the best managed teams in the league despite their 'down' season this year, but I think the Patriots are just a notch above everyone else.

Tour2ma

Jstas wrote: »

Is it actually his choice or is he admitting reality in that the Vikings have already said 2011 will be the year without Favre and nobody in their right minds would take him?

The latter... I think he'll decide he misses the money, his money... Looks like there's a fair chance he's gonna need some... maybe a lot of money…

Jstas wrote: »

The Giants are bringing back Coughlin for next year. Good move IMO, he's not the problem. Flaky Eli is. Don't fire the coach over the player's screw ups.

I like Coughlin as well, but if a team has the talent and does not produce, that’s when you do fire the coach.

Jstas wrote: »

So far, the only big story still left on the table with no reporting is Jason Garrett as the Cowboys head coach. Garrett, even if he doesn't become head coach, is still under contract for another year as the offensive coordinator. If Jerry wants him and doesn't act fast, Garrett's gonna interview.

First, I think Marvin Lewis' situation is interesting. Maybe not big, but interesting... Not too often a coach becomes a free agent.

Jerry had to hold off to comply with the Rooney rule. However, I'm betting a Cowher conversation was in the mix as well. Garrett can interview, only when Jones gives teams permission to start talking to him, so no hurry there. If Jones is trying to find a proven NFL coach, that he can make take Garrett as his OC, he's not going to find one. Not that Garrett's bad, just that coaches want to pick their own staffs.

At any rate it looks to be all but over now...

dallasnews.com 04 Jan 2011 wrote:

Jerry Jones said the inevitable announcement that Jason Garrett will become the team's head coach could come today.

Jones told this to KRLD-FM, the Cowboys flagship radio station, Tuesday morning. He acknowledged this process is moving at a rapid pace and he's on the verge of wrapping it up. But as of now, no press conference has been scheduled.

Jones and Garrett have not spoken about the job since the season ended Sunday night, but Jones has indicated that won't be necessary given the level of famaliarity (sic) he has with Garrett. He is scheduled to interview receivers coach Ray Sherman today to satisfy the NFL's Rooney Rule regarding minority candidates.

Jstas wrote: »

... talent heavy teams like Denver, Dallas and Washington having picks in the top 10 and being talent heavy and subsequently payroll heavy as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Dallas and Denver trade 1st and maybe even 2nd round picks for more lower rounds where picks do not demand such a price premium.

Trade down within round 1 or within round 2, maybe, but drop to lower rounds would surprise me. And in the case of Dallas and Washington, it certainly would not be to save money. One thing Jones and Snyder know how to do is spend money…

Teams draft to fill needs. Teams trade down to accumulate picks (and/ or journeymen players) when they need to improve roster depth. Not that I agree that the above are “talent heavy”... at least not on both sides of the ball (DAL #23 Total D; DNV #32 D; WSH #18 O/ #31 D), but teams that believe that is their situation look to draft the one or two pieces missing to win the Superbowl. Generally these pieces are either found in rounds one and two, or by trading these high picks to get proven vet's.

On the other hand, if there are many needs, then teams (like my Brownies) go the “best player available” route, or at least should… Trading up to get a coveted player is risky and may be why coveting is a sin. (Why we traded back up into round 1 to draft Brady Quinn I’ll never know… and I was a Brady backer… at the time…). Trading down and still getting a coveted pick is genius.

dorourke07

The Lions are on the rise. For the first time in forever, we don't have a top 5 pick!

Slinger182

dorourke07 wrote: »

The Lions are on the rise. For the first time in forever, we don't have a top 5 pick!

Don't worry I heard there are going to be plenty of WRs available in the mid first round :biggrin:

Tour2ma

dorourke07 wrote: »

The Lions are on the rise. For the first time in forever, we don't have a top 5 pick!

LOL... well how are you going to get another top shelf receiver?

Nevermind... forgot that Millen is gone...:biggrin:

Here's to a Browns - Lions Superbowl in our lifetimes...

Tour2ma

Slinger182 wrote: »

Don't worry I heard there are going to be plenty of WRs available in the mid first round :biggrin:

My apologies Slinger, I was in such a hurry to post a similar line, I skipped reading your post.

You obviously have a refined sense of humor...

Jstas

Tour2ma wrote: »

I like Coughlin as well, but if a team has the talent and does not produce, that’s when you do fire the coach.

Thing is, I don't think it's the coach or the team that isn't producing. The Giants play hard. Real hard. Hell, they were the ones that killed Tony Romo for the season. The most inconsistent part of that team is Eli Manning. It's not Coughlin's fault the guy flakes out every other game. It's not the defense's fault that he can take a drive to the 2 yard line and promptly throw to the other team. It's not the Special Teams fault that they can give him stellar field position and he does nothing with it. No wonder Coughlin looks like he's having conniption fits every game. Eli is stellar on paper. On the field, he's got the personality of a wet pillow and all the drive of a sack of potatoes. The only reason Eli is anywhere near as good as people say is because of the rest of the Giants playing well enough to make him that way. Coughlin can only do so much when his team's leader is such a let down.

Tour2ma wrote: »

Jerry had to hold off to comply with the Rooney rule. However, I'm betting a Cowher conversation was in the mix as well. Garrett can interview, only when Jones gives teams permission to start talking to him, so no hurry there. If Jones is trying to find a proven NFL coach, that he can make take Garrett as his OC, he's not going to find one. Not that Garrett's bad, just that coaches want to pick their own staffs.

I know Jerry has to fulfill the Rooney rule.Well, actually, he doesn't because Garrett was promoted mid-season. Jerry is following the "spirit of the rule" probably to reduce liability. I also highly doubt that Cowher was ever considered. Cowher has made it known before that if he's gonna be a coach, he wants full control, no meddling owner or GM. That's not Jerry. If anything, Jerry was entertaining Shanahan who went elsewhere obviously and is probably regretting it at this point. Besides, Jerry loves Garrett. Garrett toes the company line and they see eye to eye on alot of things. Garrett's style is alot like Jimmy Johnson's for obvious reasons but he also goes with what Jones wants as well. That's Jerry's dream coach. Besides that, it's clear Garrett can do the job and he has the support of the players. They WANT to play for him. Something Wade lacked. Also, I do believe that Garrett is in his last year of his OC contract for 2011. If that is the case, I do not believe that he needs permission to interview elsewhere. However, it appears that he has no desire to go elsewhere and would very much like to be the Cowboys coach. On top of that, Jones has said multiple times that he's not even going to interview Garrett, he knows him well and has already proven his worth multiple times over. Says alot about Jerry's thoughts on Garrett. they are not negative in any respect.

Tour2ma wrote: »

At any rate it looks to be all but over now... Trade down within round 1 or within round 2, maybe, but drop to lower rounds would surprise me. And in the case of Dallas and Washington, it certainly would not be to save money. One thing Jones and Snyder know how to do is spend money…

For 2010 there is no salary cap. But at the same time, with the prospect of a strike looming, nobody wants to be payroll heavy and have to spend money on a team that is sitting at home doing nothing. Also, if rookies do get drafted and they end up sitting out a year, the owners lose a bunch of money. There will also likely be a cap reinstated if a new CBA comes through. The last thing they want is to have fines levied and have to start hemorrhaging expensive talent to a tight market where other teams are up against the cap as well. Besides, the Cowboys draft plans are usually to pick late. That's how they got Dez Bryant who, before his injury, has to be one of the highest value picks of last year's draft and he was a bargain comparatively. Especially when compared to guys like Tebow. I think the Cowboys will trade and pick low to get some young blood on the team. A good chunk of them are old and there's no young talent waiting in the wings. The Cowboys need lotsa picks, not high picks. Jerry doesn't want to win one Super Bowl, he wants to win them all.

Tour2ma wrote: »

Teams draft to fill needs. Teams trade down to accumulate picks (and/ or journeymen players) when they need to improve roster depth. Not that I agree that the above are “talent heavy”... at least not on both sides of the ball (DAL #23 Total D; DNV #32 D; WSH #18 O/ #31 D), but teams that believe that is their situation look to draft the one or two pieces missing to win the Superbowl. Generally these pieces are either found in rounds one and two, or by trading these high picks to get proven vet's.

Yeah, teams draft to fill needs and honestly, the Cowboys needs span the board. Yeah, some teams trade picks for vets but the Cowboys typically don't. Thye trade a high pick for two or three low picks. They ended up with twice as many picks as everyone else last year because of this method and pulled some great talent out of the draft. Lots of that talent has seen play this year since they were beat up by injuries. And rankings this year do not really mean much. It was such an ugly year that the rankings are all over the place. Dallas' D may only be 23rd in the league but the way they played after Wade was canned puts them in the top 10 easily. The offense was scoring pretty high as well (averaged like 33 points a game or something)and is ranked near the middle of the pack. Since Garrett took over, they were one of the most competitive teams and their QB was a 39 year old vet that others gave up on. When he got injured they went to a rookie and they still managed to pull out a win against a favorite in the Playoffs if they drew any other wildcard team but the Packers.

Tour2ma wrote: »

On the other hand, if there are many needs, then teams (like my Brownies) go the “best player available” route, or at least should… Trading up to get a coveted player is risky and may be why coveting is a sin. (Why we traded back up into round 1 to draft Brady Quinn I’ll never know… and I was a Brady backer… at the time…). Trading down and still getting a coveted pick is genius.

I don't think going the "best player available" route is the smart route if you have needs all over the place. If I'm coaching a bad team that needs warm, talented bodies in positions, I'm not going to spend big money on a high draft pick for one guy when the rest of my team is lacking. I'm gonna trade my #1, #2 or #3 draft pick for, say, a #28 and a #30 draft pick or three second round picks or 4 or 5 3rd round picks and so on. Having a single great player go to a team with no good players at all ends up with something along the lines of a Vinnie Testaverde. He was not a suck quarterback in any respect but he went high to a bad team and then when that team went no where, they blamed him. He went to bad team after bad team but he was also the last QB to lead the Browns to a playoff spot and advance where they beat the Pats and then got beat by the Steelers. Yeah, they went in 2002 but they blew their own 17 point lead and got stomped by the Steelers in the first round.

Anyway, before Testaverde went to the Browns, he played for the Bucs who just sucked out loud. They were so bad that Testaverde's numbers made him a laughing stock of the league. But if you watched the games, he wasn't throwing to the other team like everyone said he was. He was throwing the routes, his receivers were dropping routes and blockers were missing coverages. No wonder they couldn't score any points. Was that Testaverde's fault? Maybe but what's the guy supposed to do? Run his own routes and throw to himself? Not everybody can be Brett Favre ya know.

Jstas

Well, Bengals are extending Marvin Lewis' contract.

Raiders informed Cable that they will not be exercising the 2011 option on his contract.

Wonder if any team will pick him up?

dorourke07

Tour2ma wrote: »

LOL... well how are you going to get another top shelf receiver?

Nevermind... forgot that Millen is gone...:biggrin:

Here's to a Browns - Lions Superbowl in our lifetimes...

I will be at that game!

dorourke07

The draft could be really interesting if the CBA comes through with a new rookie salary structure in time. It could make it worth trading up if the salaries aren't rediculous. I could see a lot of teams going after that "one" guy to finish out their rosters.