Bluejeans versus Signal Cable wires?

heiney9

be83663 wrote: »

Is Silver better than Copper then, like if I bought Signal Cable's Silver-mixed RCA cable rather than all-Copper Monster's RCA Cable then?

They sound different, who's to say which is "better". In my rig I have yet to find a silver cable I completely like, but that's me with my gear. It will vary based on your likes, dislikes and the performance of your rig.

M* blows no matter what it's made out of. Go with Signal regardless of if you choose silver or copper.

H9

madmax

An $80 monster cable, even if free is a bad deal. It could end up in your audio system by mistake and cause a complete lack of performance.
madmax

Audioquest

ben62670 wrote: »

AQ you just don't get it.

Well, I do actually. Maybe you didn't read my post, I said there is a difference in cables but there is a diminishing return and a lot of snake-oil in the business with companies buying mass produced wire from a mill and having their label or jacket installed.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/5/6528.html

If you have access to some medium (Bryston, Classe, Monarchy etc) or higher end gear and several higher and lower end cables see what you find.
Also try this with some lower end gear such as receivers.

Have a few friends gather and don't prompt them. Give them each a sheet of paper to record their comments and use the same source music for each comparison.

...you may be surprised. No 2 humans ears hear the same and no one is right or wrong when it comes to their individual tastes. If it did there'd be very few manufacturers that would be deemed correct.

PS- cable treatment is a good thing to keep bare wire from oxidizing. Communications companies even use it for good reason. Why do you think the less oxygen in copper to start with is better? Read up on it.

Audioquest

..and another good one



Audio Cable "Break In" Science or Psychological?


Cable Vendor Claim
"'Breaking in' a cable has everything to do with the insulation - not the wire itself. The insulation (or dielectric) will absorb energy from the conductor when a current is flowing (i.e. when music is playing). This energy-absorption causes the dielectric's molecules to re-arrange themselves from a random order into a uniform order. When the molecules have been rearranged, the dielectric will absorb less energy & consequently cause less distortion." - Audioquest

Audioholics Response

Thus their conclusion is the dielectric , not the wire causes distortion! Claims regarding insulation molecules "aligning" with a signal, skin effect, strand jumping, etc, are anecdotal at best. Let's not forget that an audio signal is AC, and effectively random from a physical perspective. Nothing can align to a random signal by being anything other than random - exactly the state they claim is "cured" by injecting a signal.

"Break In" is not a proven audible or measurable phenomenon. The perception of changes in sound quality with time is likely attributable to the classical placebo effect, i.e., a listener anticipating a possible audible difference is predisposed to hear one whether or not it exists. Note that Audioquest isn't the only exotic cable vendor that claims cables "Break In". This is actually quite a popular myth touted by many other exotic cable vendors and cable forum cult hobbyists alike.

Audioholics Forum Feedback Response

Fellow Audioholics.com forum members recently engaged in a discussion about the cable "break in" myth that I felt was invaluable and worth turning into an article. Rather than diving into the technical aspects of the cable "break in" myth, our forum members discussed the physiological ones and how exotic cable vendors may be playing on this scenario to hook unwary consumers into believing something which they cannot prove through measurements, analytical analysis or controlled Double Blind Listening Tests (DBT's). Incidentally, we allow DBT discussions in any of our forums...

"So is cable break in just a ploy for getting people to keep the cables beyond the return period, or perhaps long enough that their desire to do anything about the lack of any improvement is gone?" - Paul F

"I think there's more to it than that. There is a neural adjustment effect that occurs when a stimulus we are accustomed to changes, known as 'habituation'.

When you change to new cables, there may appear to be an audible difference. If this seems to be for the better, well and good - you'll keep the cables. If the cables seem marginally worse than the old ones, the 'break in improvement' claim will encourage you to persevere with them for a while. Over this time your auditory system will habituate to the new sound balance, resulting in a perceived improvement. If you then swap back to the old cables for a 'fair' comparison, they will probably sound worse, as you are now adjusted to the new ones.

The second effect that comes into play is our suggestibility. Some people are more suggestible than others, but most of us are surprisingly open to persuasion. Expensive audio cables are an almost ideal example: we are persuaded to get them because they will improve the sound, and will get better over time, they cost a lot of money so they ought to be 'special', we've gone to some to get them because we want a change for the better, we'd hate our choice to be a failure, it would be a hassle to return them and start again, and most importantly, the judgment is purely subjective and very susceptible to emotional influence.

Under these conditions, the chances are we'll convince ourselves the new cables sound better, even if on someone else's identical system they might sound slightly worse - after all, 'worse' is subjective, and they have to break in, right?

In reality, there probably won't be a significant audible difference, but our expectations and suggestibility will manufacture one.

There are probably quite a few old-hands who are resistant to these effects, you know, the cynics and pessimists but it doesn't matter to the snake-oil salesmen, there are enough suggestible people seeking auditory nirvana for them to prosper, get rich, afford swanky web sites, buy advertising space in all the glossy magazines, and still give a decent mark-up to the retail outlets." - DLorde

Interestingly, the New Scientists recently commented on the London Heathrow Hi Fi Show, saying that among the cables selling for up to £30,000 for 6 metres, they found Quad demonstrating their latest speakers to great enthusiasm. The orange cable to the speakers looked oddly familiar. When asked about it, Tony Faulkner, the recording engineer demonstrating them (who'd used the speakers as monitors while recording Saint-Saen's complete works for piano & orchestra, Gramophone's Record of the Year), said of the cables:

"Yes, they would look familiar if you have a garden. Before the show opened we went over the road to the DIY superstore and bought one of those £20 extension leads that Black & Decker sells for electric hedge-cutters. They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me. The show's been running for three days and no one in the audience has noticed..." - New Scientist Magazine

disneyjoe7

ben62670 wrote: »

AQ you just don't get it.

Agreed +1

dpowell

be83663 wrote: »

Maybe what people are saying is that Monster's $60 market-priced cable is actually worse than Signal Cable's $36/pair Signal One or $49/pair Signal Two Cables. :cool:

If you buy Signal Cables and don't like them, there are probably plenty of forum members who will eagerly take them off your hands and you can get most of what you've invested back out of them. Not so with M*.....

dorokusai

Audioquest wrote: »

PS- cable treatment is a good thing to keep bare wire from oxidizing. Communications companies even use it for good reason. Why do you think the less oxygen in copper to start with is better? Read up on it.

The only time I've seen products like No-Ox used in regards to communications companies is for grounding, and for good reason. Aside from that, I've never noticed it anywhere else in 20 years....but my experience doesn't speak for the industry as a whole by no means.

Signal Cable and BJC also offer a 100% money back guarantee.

be83663

Audioquest wrote: »

"So is cable break in just a ploy for getting people to keep the cables beyond the return period, or perhaps long enough that their desire to do anything about the lack of any improvement is gone?" - Paul F.

If there really is such thing as "Break-In Period", rather than one's ears getting used to the change of sounds or getting lazy to do anything about it, why not, after what one believes the break-in period has occurred, bring in other people to listen to his/her system and ask for their opinions if the sound is too harsh or natural?
If really "broken-in", then people should like the sound of your system; if not, then their ears will be bothered.

Also, if your system is Only as Good as Your Weakest Link, then Signal Cable Silver Resolution RCA and Signal Cable Ultra Copper Speaker Cable combination could give out just Copper performance Overall, unless I go with their $249/pair Silver Resolution Speaker Cable along with the the Silver Resolution RCA as well--then it will give out an overall Silver performance.

Wouldn't it be better to make all in one material, either all Copper or all Silver, for a better sound quality?

Audioquest

dorokusai wrote: »

The only time I've seen products like No-Ox used in regards to communications companies is for grounding, and for good reason. Aside from that, I've never noticed it anywhere else in 20 years....but my experience doesn't speak for the industry as a whole by no means.

Signal Cable and BJC also offer a 100% money back guarantee.

That's the purpose of Pro-Gold or any other corrosion inhibiting protectant, to prolong the effects of a perfect contact, not any voodoo magic as some might think...nothing more, nothing less.

be83663

Audioquest wrote: »

That's the purpose of Pro-Gold or any other corrosion inhibiting protectant, to prolong the effects of a perfect contact, not any voodoo magic as some might think...nothing more, nothing less.

That is why I decided to go with Monster Cable's M1000 High Performance Stereo Audio Cable, instead of with Signal Cable's Silver Resolution RCA Cable; because M1000 has patented 12-Cut Terbine Connector, with 24K Gold Plating, that can withhold over a hundred pound because of their Tight fittings.

Also, comparing the Silver Resolution RCA and the M1000, Silver does not look like it has much Dielectric Insulation, whereas M1000 has "special MicroFiber dielectric insulation, for maximum rejection of interference, and innovative PEX dielectric for improved signal transfer" and good insulation just from the looks of it.

dorokusai

Audioquest wrote: »

That's the purpose of Pro-Gold or any other corrosion inhibiting protectant, to prolong the effects of a perfect contact, not any voodoo magic as some might think...nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not in search of a lesson or instruction in regards to CAIG products AQ. CAIG has been in my house for almost 10+ years. I use it every time and just found your comment odd.

Specifically, in regards to ownership and resale I always use CAIG regardless of the future owners beliefs'.....so you're a weirdo, and so am I. I don't agree with some of your other stalwart issues with cables as a whole but really don't care. We all have a level of issues "insert name here" that we settle on and clench our fist about but in the end it's just about sound.

I can't tell you how to listen, hear or even interpret what enters your auditory canal. That statement alone is probably beyond my education level. I just know what sounds good, sounds bad, sounds like it should have never been recorded. The lovely suicide of what we call music.

Keep posting, that's what we do here and my best friends post the most yet piss me off the most.

heiney9

be83663 wrote: »

That is why I decided to go with Monster Cable's M1000 High Performance Stereo Audio Cable, instead of with Signal Cable's Silver Resolution RCA Cable; because M1000 has patented 12-Cut Terbine Connector, with 24K Gold Plating, that can withhold over a hundred pound because of their Tight fittings.

Also, comparing the Silver Resolution RCA and the M1000, Silver does not look like it has much Dielectric Insulation, whereas M1000 has "special MicroFiber dielectric insulation, for maximum rejection of interference, and innovative PEX dielectric for improved signal transfer" and good insulation just from the looks of it.

Pure BS

H9

tonyb

....and a **** has a special slimey coating to keep the texture and smell for hours untill your foot comes along to step in it.:rolleyes:

iskandam

Tried both. Both are good quality cable that I could happily with in my system.

Currently trying 26 gauge Radio Shack magnet wire based on a friend's recommendation. It's basically a smaller, thinner version of the Anticables. Apparently people have been using the even smaller and thinner red 30 gauge wire to make their own DIY ICs with good results. I wonder if anybody else here has tried this.

disneyjoe7

Audioquest wrote: »

PS- cable treatment is a good thing to keep bare wire from oxidizing. Communications companies even use it for good reason. Why do you think the less oxygen in copper to start with is better? Read up on it.

dorokusai wrote: »

The only time I've seen products like No-Ox used in regards to communications companies is for grounding, and for good reason. Aside from that, I've never noticed it anywhere else in 20 years....but my experience doesn't speak for the industry as a whole by no means.

From that statement alone I can say he knows nothing of the Tele-Communications business, because I never seen it either.

Face

iskandam wrote: »

Tried both. Both are good quality cable that I could happily with in my system.

Currently trying 26 gauge Radio Shack magnet wire based on a friend's recommendation. It's basically a smaller, thinner version of the Anticables. Apparently people have been using the even smaller and thinner red 30 gauge wire to make their own DIY ICs with good results. I wonder if anybody else here has tried this.

Once you get to 28-30ga, I find that the cable is too delicate. YMMV.

dorokusai

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

From that statement alone I can say he knows nothing of the Tele-Communications business, because I never seen it either.

Right on DJ.

iskandam

Face wrote: »

Once you get to 28-30ga, I find that the cable is too delicate. YMMV.

It truly is a pain to work with. I broke the tip off a couple of conductors when I overtightened the speaker binding post. When we have people over I'm gonna have to temporarily switch back to the regular 12 ga cable because these 26 ga are so thin they're almost invisible. People are just gonna walk right through them and break them in half.

vc69

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

From that statement alone I can say he knows nothing of the Tele-Communications business, because I never seen it either.

Damn sure don't use it in IT.

tonyb

iskandam wrote: »

It truly is a pain to work with. I broke the tip off a couple of conductors when I overtightened the speaker binding post. When we have people over I'm gonna have to temporarily switch back to the regular 12 ga cable because these 26 ga are so thin they're almost invisible. People are just gonna walk right through them and break them in half.

Please tell me this is a joke...really ? 26 ga. ? Maybe stranded,twisted together to make a larger cable, who runs straight 26 ga. wire ?

iskandam

yes, single 26 ga run to each binding post. No twisting, braiding, techflex, etc. I keep them at least 3" away from each other and off the floor.

I only have 5-6 hours on them so far, but compared to the 12 ga Bluejeans cable I was using previously these magnet wires have a much lower noise floor and a more laid back sound. OTOH, I have to turn the gain up about 4-5 dB on the receiver to hit the same SPL. I don't know if this is caused by resistive loss due to the super thin gauge.

digitalvideo

My HT is used primarily for movies/bluray, tv/sports. It's a centrally configured setup around the reciever, HDMI wired.

My HT consists of:

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD plasma
Pioneer Elite SC07 pre/pro
Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD bluray
Carver/Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Series 400-7
Comcast HD CATV
SurgeX XQ515 surge eliminator
Definitive Technology Mythos ST
2 SVS PB12 Ultra subs

I am currently using Belkin wire. What should my wire options be in terms of company and gauge?

tonyb

DV- You have some nice gear there, shouldn't the cables be of same quality ? I would suggest some audioquest diamondbacks for Ic's or even Bens cables. Speaker cables the world is open, Kimber 8tc, PFC, Stralley Reality cables, budget of coarse comes into play. Your a prime candidate for a cable upgrade judgeing by your level of gear.

tonyb

iskandam wrote: »

I have to turn the gain up about 4-5 dB on the receiver to hit the same SPL.

Why do you think that is ?

Belkin,while a decent standard cable, is like vanilla in a world of 33 flavors. When the level of gear rises, so should your cables. Thats all I'm trying to say here.

Audioquest

Read something today, anything really on cable controversies and testing. You will see those all rage on as this one is.

It always comes down to a few facts:

1. The cable sound not add anything sonically between components. It is a passive item and all it can do to change the sound is by degrading the connection between components. An ultimate cable would be 100% transparent

2. Cables have a few measurable characteristics: impedance, resistance, and capacitance.

3. Cables should be kept as short as possible

A ton of money does not need to be spent on cables that achieve the basic rules



...and the only point I was trying to make about wire treatment to those who still don't understand is the fact that any copper (or most materials) exposed to air is that it will over time oxidize. Take a look at the RCA connectors on any older component, they tarnish and make a very poor connection. A protective material will inhibit this action. If you still don't believe, call an electronics supplier, not an audio salon, and ask them. They sell an array of stuff for this purpose such as MG Chemicals etc.

digitalvideo

Audioquest's website has 10 different kinds of interconnects listed. What should I be looking for?

digitalvideo

tonyb wrote: »

DV- You have some nice gear there, shouldn't the cables be of same quality ? I would suggest some audioquest diamondbacks for Ic's or even Bens cables. Speaker cables the world is open, Kimber 8tc, PFC, Stralley Reality cables, budget of coarse comes into play. Your a prime candidate for a cable upgrade judgeing by your level of gear.

So the interconnects play a bigger role in SQ than speaker cables do? If that's the case can I use Diamondback IC's and Bluejeans speaker cables?

Like I asked above, Audioquest's website has 10 different kinds of interconnects listed. What should I be looking for?

BlueFox

Thank you for the information.

The sign of a closed, unthinking mind. Accept something that has zero attribution, but supports your beliefs, as fact. And, be so closed minded as to not even bother with the simplest experiment to verify yourself if the 'facts' are true. :rolleyes:

kevhed72

When researching new cables....less reading and more listening. Like someone earlier said, if you buy Signal and do not like how they sound, you can easily sell them here or another forum.

concealer404

digitalvideo wrote: »

So the interconnects play a bigger role in SQ than speaker cables do? If that's the case can I use Diamondback IC's and Bluejeans speaker cables?

Like I asked above, Audioquest's website has 10 different kinds of interconnects listed. What should I be looking for?

I wouldn't necessarily say "bigger," but consider that in a typical system, there's more of them. Each one you upgrade from crappy "Ratshack" RCAs should yield an improvement.

I have 4 pairs of RCAs in my basic 2-channel rig starting with CDP. That's 4 oppurtunities for improvement. I only have one pair of speaker cables.

Mixing and matching between brands/models between RCA and speaker cables is fine. It's all about synergy. I have Audioquest interconnects, and AR speaker cables. About all they share in common is that they're both copper.

As for Audioquest, i'd say get whatever you can afford. The least i would go with would be the Sidewinders. From there, the sky is the limit. I would have suggested Sidewinders earlier in this thread if i had seen it before it got crapped on.