Bluejeans versus Signal Cable wires?
Comments
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Cables matter.....................end of story.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Cables matter.....................end of story.
H9
True but there has to be a way of establishing why and which ones.
Manufacturers of cables cannot possibly test them to determine their interaction with the myriad of components out there, so there's no way to simply buy without knowing if you will benefit from the purchase, or in some cases actually downgrade.
It's too bad there isn't a standard requiring manufacturers to state the basic measurements of the cable so there is something to promote an informed purchase. That would also help weed out the charlatans and snake-oil dealers.HT: Polk SDA SRS 2.3 main fronts, Klipsch RC-25 center channel, Polk RTi-150 rears, M&K V1B sub, Denon AVR-5800, Samsung 52" LCD, Sony BDP-S550
2 Channel: Carver ALS Platinum, Audio Research LS-2B preamp, Counterpoint SA-100 amplifier, Integra CD player, Denon SL7D tt, TC750 phono pre, Nikko tuner -
Audioquest wrote: »True but there has to be a way of establishing why and which ones.
Which is why we draw our conclusions based on our own experience.
This debate is older than dirt on Moses' sandles.
Somebody was looking for a good starter cable and some very good suggestions were made.
I don't give two sh*ts what a manufacturer's hype is. What I do care about is how well a given technology works in my system. I have found that cable performance, with the company I prefer to use, definitely goes up with the price. I go as big as I can.
Cables matter. I can never understand how any audiophile would dispute that fact.-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
Cables matter. I can never understand how any audiophile would dispute that fact.
That is the keyword in your statement. None dispute the fact that cables matter. The problem is twits with a stereo who think they have the ultimate in sound. :rolleyes:Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Which is why we draw our conclusions based on our own experience.
This debate is older than dirt on Moses' sandles.
Somebody was looking for a good starter cable and some very good suggestions were made.
I don't give two sh*ts what a manufacturer's hype is. What I do care about is how well a given technology works in my system. I have found that cable performance, with the company I prefer to use, definitely goes up with the price. I go as big as I can.
Cables matter. I can never understand how any audiophile would dispute that fact.
Agreed, there is fact to cable differences
I don't want to belabor this, my point being that everything needs some way to measure by so people don't buy on a whim or visually what it looks like.
Most people cannot simply buy cable after cable until they stumble upon what works best in their setup. Some do have a better or worse effect depending on component synergy.HT: Polk SDA SRS 2.3 main fronts, Klipsch RC-25 center channel, Polk RTi-150 rears, M&K V1B sub, Denon AVR-5800, Samsung 52" LCD, Sony BDP-S550
2 Channel: Carver ALS Platinum, Audio Research LS-2B preamp, Counterpoint SA-100 amplifier, Integra CD player, Denon SL7D tt, TC750 phono pre, Nikko tuner -
When researching new cables....less reading and more listening.
The best advice I have heard yet, and summed up perfectly!..... ><////(*> -
Audioquest wrote: »True but there has to be a way of establishing why and which ones.
Why, I use my ears to determine, so establish everything under the sun and explain everything however you want, it means nothing to me until I have a chance to hear it and evaluate it based on my experiences, likes and dislikes, and system shortcomings.
I don't get some of you guys on the forum.........this hobby revolves solely around listening, that's the essence of this hobby if you're hardcore about it; yet very few of you do that beyond what's currently in your rig or what the flavor of the month is.
More people want to argue for the sake of arguing and are so closed minded you'll never be hardcore in this hobby, never.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
digitalvideo wrote: »So the interconnects play a bigger role in SQ than speaker cables do? If that's the case can I use Diamondback IC's and Bluejeans speaker cables?
Like I asked above, Audioquest's website has 10 different kinds of interconnects listed. What should I be looking for?
I have reviewed AudioQuest's RCA cables, namely, G-Snake, Sidewinder, and Copperhead; their qualities increase in this order, and the bottom line is that Good Interconnect Cable has Good Conduction/Copper, Insulation, and Termination, whether you look at Audioquest's advertisement or Monster Cable's advertisement.
In theory, Monster Cable's M1000 High Performance Stereo Audio Cable does not lack in any of these aspects, compared to AudioQuest's best RCA cable, the Copperhead--M1000 is around $100 for 4 ft and Copperhead is around $60 for 5 ft. -
yes, single 26 ga run to each binding post. No twisting, braiding, techflex, etc. I keep them at least 3" away from each other and off the floor.
I only have 5-6 hours on them so far, but compared to the 12 ga Bluejeans cable I was using previously these magnet wires have a much lower noise floor and a more laid back sound. OTOH, I have to turn the gain up about 4-5 dB on the receiver to hit the same SPL. I don't know if this is caused by resistive loss due to the super thin gauge.
Well, I'm certainly open to new and different points of view. Read through the Audiogon forum discussions from your link, iskandam, and was rather suprised, to be quite honest, to read some of the "tweaks" that were posted regarding what I'm more comfortable calling "bell wire".
"www.audiotweaks had people using 18 ga silver wire for $1.50/ft from www.tobackgold and putting 100% cotton shoe lace over it. Less resistance so can use a smaller guage wire for skin effect but less resistance than copper.
(If you're worried about skin effect, let's discuss wave guide)
I must say, there was certainly a presentation of quite unique opinions, IMO.
However, one poster had questions regarding Musical Fidelity amp and B&W Nautilus speakers. He stated speaker length runs of 12 feet.
The first "advice" he is given recommends this:
"Pick up a spool of solid core copper magnet wire @ Radio Shack ($3.99). The spool contains three gauges (30, 26 and either 24 or 22, I forget). Try the two larger gauges (26 and the other one) in single runs (do not twist them).
Iskandam, this is just my opinion, but that is some of the absolute worst advice I've ever read on any audio forum ever regarding anything. My neurons are misfiring as I type this from cellular destruction. Cheese and crackers :
HOOK UP B&W NAUTILUS SPEAKERS TO AN MF AMP USING 12 FEET OF 30 GAUGE BELL WIRE
Just my opinion.Sal Palooza -
digitalvideo wrote: »My HT is used primarily for movies/bluray, tv/sports. It's a centrally configured setup around the reciever, HDMI wired.
My HT consists of:
Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD plasma
Pioneer Elite SC07 pre/pro
Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD bluray
Carver/Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Series 400-7
Comcast HD CATV
SurgeX XQ515 surge eliminator
Definitive Technology Mythos ST
2 SVS PB12 Ultra subs
I am currently using Belkin wire. What should my wire options be in terms of company and gauge?DV- You have some nice gear there, shouldn't the cables be of same quality ? I would suggest some audioquest diamondbacks for Ic's or even Bens cables. Speaker cables the world is open, Kimber 8tc, PFC, Stralley Reality cables, budget of coarse comes into play. Your a prime candidate for a cable upgrade judgeing by your level of gear.
^^^^^ What Tonyb said. Nice gear that deserves decent cables. Thanks for posting what equipment you're using; it makes a difference.Sal Palooza -
The best advice I have heard yet, and summed up perfectly!
Sorry to bump this thread.. probably better to let it die but I purchased some of that Ultra THX 600 cable that was mentioned earlier in the thread, I wasn't sure if speaker wire would make any difference (I'm new to this hobby, go easy on me) so I tested it out myself (The roll was only $20, cheap to experiment) So I hooked it all up replacing my old 14 AWG wire from Monoprice which is the same gauge as the monster and boy was I floored when I noticied a difference between the L channel with the new cable and the R with the old. Everything just seemed more "rich" and a bit crisper.
Just wanted to say that.. food for thought I guess -
BorisBoris wrote: »Sorry to bump this thread.. probably better to let it die but I purchased some of that Ultra THX 600 cable that was mentioned earlier in the thread, I wasn't sure if speaker wire would make any difference (I'm new to this hobby, go easy on me) so I tested it out myself (The roll was only $20, cheap to experiment) So I hooked it all up replacing my old 14 AWG wire from Monoprice which is the same gauge as the monster and boy was I floored when I noticied a difference between the L channel with the new cable and the R with the old. Everything just seemed more "rich" and a bit crisper.
Just wanted to say that.. food for thought I guess
First, never be afraid to express your thoughts, regardless how old a thread is. Second, glad to see you getting your feet wet in cables because everything matters. You have to think of cables as a piece of gear.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
BorisBoris wrote: »Sorry to bump this thread.. probably better to let it die but I purchased some of that Ultra THX 600 cable that was mentioned earlier in the thread, I wasn't sure if speaker wire would make any difference (I'm new to this hobby, go easy on me) so I tested it out myself (The roll was only $20, cheap to experiment) So I hooked it all up replacing my old 14 AWG wire from Monoprice which is the same gauge as the monster and boy was I floored when I noticied a difference between the L channel with the new cable and the R with the old. Everything just seemed more "rich" and a bit crisper.
Just wanted to say that.. food for thought I guess
How dare you compliment on a Monster product at a PolkAudio forum?
People here hate all of its products and Noel Lee.
Be careful next time; just say that you are thinking of trying a Monster product or two, but not sure if you really will.
:frown:
:rolleyes::mad::cool::eek: -
mrbigbluelight wrote: »Well, I'm certainly open to new and different points of view. Read through the Audiogon forum discussions from your link, iskandam, and was rather suprised, to be quite honest, to read some of the "tweaks" that were posted regarding what I'm more comfortable calling "bell wire".
"www.audiotweaks had people using 18 ga silver wire for $1.50/ft from www.tobackgold and putting 100% cotton shoe lace over it. Less resistance so can use a smaller guage wire for skin effect but less resistance than copper.
(If you're worried about skin effect, let's discuss wave guide)
I must say, there was certainly a presentation of quite unique opinions, IMO.
However, one poster had questions regarding Musical Fidelity amp and B&W Nautilus speakers. He stated speaker length runs of 12 feet.
The first "advice" he is given recommends this:
"Pick up a spool of solid core copper magnet wire @ Radio Shack ($3.99). The spool contains three gauges (30, 26 and either 24 or 22, I forget). Try the two larger gauges (26 and the other one) in single runs (do not twist them).
Iskandam, this is just my opinion, but that is some of the absolute worst advice I've ever read on any audio forum ever regarding anything. My neurons are misfiring as I type this from cellular destruction. Cheese and crackers :
HOOK UP B&W NAUTILUS SPEAKERS TO AN MF AMP USING 12 FEET OF 30 GAUGE BELL WIRE
Just my opinion.
The guy who recommended the 26 ga magnet wires used them on his single driver, full range speakers juiced by flea powered tube amp. They seem to work very well in that application. After a week of living with those near-invisible wires I'd have to agree with the folks here and conclude that they're not a good match for my rig.
I'm now trying the 22 ga wires :biggrin: Just finished hooking them up but haven't had a time to listen yet, so we'll see how this one turns out! -
I am not going to get involved with this cable gauge discussion, but will add my personal experience.
I used MapleShade ClearView cables in my two-channel system, and am currently using them in the 5 channel HT. I do not know what the gauge is, but they are very small, and solid core. However, they work great. I replaced 12 gauge hardware store stranded, twisted copper with these cables, and immediately heard a big improvement. These skinny cables made me realize that cables do make a difference.
The problem with them is since they are solid, and very skinny, they easily break at the termination end if there is any movement with the gear. It seems every time I move my HT rack to get at the back I break one of the connections on the amp. Definitely irritating, but as I said, they sound great.
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/bClearview-Double-Helix-Speaker-Cable_b-with-iPLUS_i-upgrade/productinfo/DHELIX-PLU/Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
The problem is twits with a stereo who think they have the ultimate in sound.
That's great sig material there.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
