I am going to do it...

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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    Here is the difference between the stock PR and the TC Sounds

    The Stock PR when it reaches its peak (which is easy to do) hits the basket and it sounds like a loud CLICK.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    Any speaker building book will tell you a PR should be larger than the active driver(s). The only way I can see getting around that is if the PR has much more travel.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited December 2010
    Thanks for the info. Trey. I emailed VMPS for an answer as to whether they can make the sub with the TC Sound PR.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited December 2010
    You're a crazy-man Sid. I hope you have 2x6 framing in that house.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    When we reinforce the kitchen floor I was going to put a new column directly under the sub and extensive bracing to that part of the floor :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited December 2010
    Updates from VMPS:
    The TC PR has not been tested with the OMG subs, but may be. I'll asked Brian what a TC PR might cost. They are very expensive (msrp $230) Also the TC PR is not a perfect fit for the cabinets, so they have to have some modification.

    The Big Bump PR is adequate according to Brian. The problem one customer encountered was with a defective BB PR. There is a conversation on that on AudioCircle currently.

    So I'll check with B, to see if he will build you one, and the cost.
    Spoke with Brian, and I could add the TC PR in either the VSS or the LARGER for $150 more.

    So now we have to decide what SUB(s) and Upgrades you want.

    So now I have to decide whether I want a single tricked out VSS or perhaps a stereo pair of 215 subs. What do you guys think?
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    When we reinforce the kitchen floor I was going to put a new column directly under the sub and extensive bracing to that part of the floor :)

    By the way Trey, you are nuts. I can't wait to transform my own home into my own personal masterpiece.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,135
    edited December 2010
    steveinaz wrote: »
    You're a crazy-man Sid. I hope you have 2x6 framing in that house.
    Well, we all know that his kitchen cabinets won't shake apart. :biggrin:

    Step back fellas. He may have joined this forum as a kid but let me tell you first hand. Many of the seasoned fellas around here could learn a thing or ten from him now. The kid has really evolved. See what you all created? He's a freakin' audio monster now.

    Seriously, mad props to Trey. He would make many folks here cry after they heard his rig. I don't care how long you have been here. I speak the truth. Those that are lucky enough to attend the Charlotte gathering are in for a treat.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    For music? Stereo subs hands down.

    Nothing- nothing beats stereo subs for music... versatility, placement, you name it... not to mention separation.

    I would actually recommend the smallest sub Brian has - the one with the 12". His 12" drivers are incredible.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited December 2010
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    For music? Stereo subs hands down.

    Nothing- nothing beats stereo subs for music... versatility, placement, you name it... not to mention separation.

    I would actually recommend the smallest sub Brian has - the one with the 12". His 12" drivers are incredible.

    Do you think I would still get some good low end kick for HT? I like the tactile feel when watching movies.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,135
    edited December 2010
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    ....or perhaps a stereo pair of 215 subs.
    Stereo. Definitely stereo IMO.

    The only drawback I have noticed in music is that while the rest of the sound stage can be spot on in location, the drums seem to be wielded across the entire sound stage. In other words, you can tell that the singer is there, the saxophone player is over there, the background singers are about 10 feet back and to the right and the guitarist is 4' over there to the left and back about 2-3 feet.

    BUT, the drummer seems to be across the entire stage....which we know doesn't happen. When is the last time you saw a drum set with one drummer 20-25' wide? Yeah, I didn't think so.

    Other than that anal piece of trivial ****, I love the subs in stereo. It adds just that little bit more of listening pleasure to the music....at least to me and my ears.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    Tom that is totally because of your room, sorry bud. I totally didnt have that setup in my previous stereo setups..

    I think as long as you run a LFE signal to them in addition for HT they will be fine. I would recommend throwing a TC sounds PR in whatever you get with all the weight. (That matches the tuning of the stock PR)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    Hey Solid,
    Just remembered Brian using a totally different woofer now for the 12" and the 15". He claims they are better but I am unsure.

    The old 12" woofer was awesome - it had a beefy magnet, carbon fiber cone and a phase plug design. Great tone and excellent control and sound.

    The old 15" woofer was cheap **** that dug deep for HT. Hence why the Larger sub exist.

    The 215 is cheaper because it uses that cheap **** 15" in the sub.

    The single 12" design is less money due to enclosure size but the actual driver itself it far superior.

    The VSS that does not use the TC Sounds drivers uses a real nice Eminence woofer.

    All I am getting at - you really have to be careful with Brian because he changes alot of things and his website is NOT current what-so-ever.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    Here are some pics...

    Slight Modifications to the original plan...

    I am doing 4 layers of wood where the drivers mount instead of 3 and 3 everywhere else...

    This is just rough put together with finish nails and glue, I am going to add countersunk screws every 6" or so in the next few days and I still have alot of bracing to add on the inside...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • greyford1979
    greyford1979 Posts: 749
    edited December 2010
    Looking good so far. I made some progress on my buddy's sub today as well, just not quite as big as you sub lol:tongue: Can't wait to see this thing finished, too bad I can't hear it tho:frown: lol
    I love animals, they're delicious!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    Thanks man!

    I wish I could countersink the woofers but I dont have the tools to do it - so the woofers will be sticking out of the enclosure...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    You don't have a router?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • greyford1979
    greyford1979 Posts: 749
    edited December 2010
    Since my router has been broken, the way I do mine so that they are flush mounted is by adding another baffle and cutout a hole the that is larger than the outside diameter of the woofer. Works well for me so far. Just make sure you that the openings line up, not like i have never made that mistake before lol.
    I love animals, they're delicious!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    That's how I did my first "recessed" woofer too. :D
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    I have a router I just dont want to buy the jig haha
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    You only need the appropriate rabbeting bit: http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS310&=&q=rabbeting+bit&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

    The path you're heading, you should man up and buy a jig already though.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited December 2010
    No kidding.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    I probably will knowing me...

    The problem with cutting a hole then using a bit to route it down is the route will be as ugly as the cut...

    But I may buy a jig for my 3rd and 4th layer
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    I ordered a jig today - should be Friday maybe, maybe Monday...

    I still have to finish bracing the cabinet and load it up with screws before I move on though
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,413
    edited December 2010
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I am going to add countersunk screws every 6" or so in the next few days ...

    Why?

    I have heard of using screws as clamps while te glue drys, but they are removed. Adding them after the glue has set doesn't make sense.

    Just my two cents.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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  • greyford1979
    greyford1979 Posts: 749
    edited December 2010
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I ordered a jig today - should be Friday maybe, maybe Monday...

    I still have to finish bracing the cabinet and load it up with screws before I move on though

    lol...that didn't take much persuasion for you to buy a jig:tongue:
    I love animals, they're delicious!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    Please don't put screws into MDF, you're doing more harm than good. Glue and clamps are all you need. If you still feel you need more, use a biscuit joiner or brad nails.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited December 2010
    Am I seeing soft wood (pine,spruce)2x4's used for the bracing?
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    I want to use screws? I dont see any reason not too - They will be pre=drilled and countersunk and will not be any part of the final finish what-so-ever...

    I did use 1x3 Pine for bracing - I plan to apply a sound deadner to the bracing (like dynamat).... but I wanted to use solid wood. I did not want to use MDF
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited December 2010
    IMO, Wood Glue and Clamp is the way to go. When the glue dried, it's stronger than nails and screws. Bracing is best done with cut off MDF sheets or plywood sheets glued up together too. It's strong, adds weight (good for sub enclosure) and cheap cheap cheap. One reason soft wood shouldn't be used is that it'll check as it dried up inside the cabinet and the wood density is not uniform across the length.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited December 2010
    I get what you guys are saying. When I built my old enclosures I used clamps and while I do have clamps I dont have anywhere to put the sub while it is clamped like I use to. My Mom has a garage and I had all the schools too. Now I have basic, cheap tools and no garage or anything. Infact I assembled this subwoofer in 30 degree weather! lol

    I put it together with glue and brad nails at first.. so I do feel the need to use screws in addition
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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