Building another new sub!

fatpiggy

K-Daugh,
So did you find the program.It should have all the information you need.Its a good starter program if you want to build a sub.Once you get your head around Boxnotes you will have a better idea how to use WinSD.I would also suggest you read every page on that guys site its very good, he covers near everything you would need to know to build yourself a nice sub.

Fatpiggy

Face

There's a volume calculator/converter in Window 7's advanced scientific calculator.

K-daugh

ok this is what im coming up with 15 1/2" x 15 1/2" x 15 1/2" box 1.5 cubic ft fyi ......10 " seas L26ROY with a bash 300w digital amp .....one port flared on both ends 3" x 12" the tune ends up being 30.8hz ....would this be good for 90% ht 10% music or should i shoot for a lower tune

K-daugh

the vas on the driver is about 3.07 cu ft but the internal vol of the box 1.37 cu ft is this bad

fatpiggy

Well done K-daugh, now your getting the idea.Ok the VAS is telling you that you need a box size 3.07 cubic feet for the driver to operate correctly.

VAS is for a vented box.The Vas does not apply for a sealed enclosure.So if you want to use this particular driver in a bass reflex design ie vented you would need to increase the size of the enclosure to get the best lowest frequency,

If you noticed the frequency for this driver is around 22hz I think.So to tune the enclosure to say 22hz you would need to increase the enclosure size.With this Sea driver you would need an enclosure 22" D x 20" H x 18" W to meet the VAS requirements for this particular driver.with one single flared port 3" round X 8" long to tune the enclosure down to 22.7hz.Which is the drivers capabilty.You can of course tune the enclosure to 30 hz or even 40hz.

Thier is reasons why you would tune the enclosure to diffrent Hz but I wont go into that at the moment.Better for you to understand the basics and get you head around Vas. specifications.And dont ask me what vas stands for as I have no idea.

You can of course use 2 smaller ports or one larger port, but for the example we will use the 3" port tube.

If you decided to go with a sealed sub with this driver you have no need for a vent as the enclosure is not tuned to meet the Fs requirement.What you are working with is the Xmax of the driver, the amount of movement the driver can make in and out.

The shorter the throw of the speaker cone the Xmax the smaller sealed space the driver can work in.Generally lower Xmax means lower VAS.

Too large a free space in the sealed enclosure will cause the driver to bottom out which is bad.So you need to understand how much space or damping the driver requires to operate in a sealed space.

Too little space in a sealed enclosure will cause the driver to be over damped and not operate correctly and cause the driver to over heat.So you have to work with the limitaion of the driver design.

Generally as a rule you can safely operate a driver in a sealed enclosure that is half the VAS size.So you can safely operate this driver in a 1.5 cu/ft enclosure.

Thier is of course exception to the rule as thier are some freak drivers that dont fit the rules.

But its good your starting to understand the theory.

Keep reading.

Fatpiggy

K-daugh

fatpiggy wrote: »

Well done K-daugh, now your getting the idea.Ok the VAS is telling you that you need a box size 3.07 cubic feet for the driver to operate correctly.

VAS is for a vented box.The Vas does not apply for a sealed enclosure.So if you want to use this particular driver in a bass reflex design ie vented you would need to increase the size of the enclosure to get the best lowest frequency,

If you noticed the frequency for this driver is around 22hz I think.So to tune the enclosure to say 22hz you would need to increase the enclosure size.With this Sea driver you would need an enclosure 22" D x 20" H x 18" W to meet the VAS requirements for this particular driver.with one single flared port 3" round X 8" long to tune the enclosure down to 22.7hz.Which is the drivers capabilty.You can of course tune the enclosure to 30 hz or even 40hz.

Thier is reasons why you would tune the enclosure to diffrent Hz but I wont go into that at the moment.Better for you to understand the basics and get you head around Vas. specifications.And dont ask me what vas stands for as I have no idea.

You can of course use 2 smaller ports or one larger port, but for the example we will use the 3" port tube.

If you decided to go with a sealed sub with this driver you have no need for a vent as the enclosure is not tuned to meet the Fs requirement.What you are working with is the Xmax of the driver, the amount of movement the driver can make in and out.

The shorter the throw of the speaker cone the Xmax the smaller sealed space the driver can work in.Generally lower Xmax means lower VAS.

Too large a free space in the sealed enclosure will cause the driver to bottom out which is bad.So you need to understand how much space or damping the driver requires to operate in a sealed space.

Too little space in a sealed enclosure will cause the driver to be over damped and not operate correctly and cause the driver to over heat.So you have to work with the limitaion of the driver design.

Generally as a rule you can safely operate a driver in a sealed enclosure that is half the VAS size.So you can safely operate this driver in a 1.5 cu/ft enclosure.

Thier is of course exception to the rule as thier are some freak drivers that dont fit the rules.

But its good your starting to understand the theory.

Keep reading.

Fatpiggy

thank you so much im so glad im starting to wrap my heaD AROUND THIS...... SO IT SEEMS the box size i hAVE CHOSE THE 15 1/2 X 15 1/2 X 15 1/2 WOULD WORK FOR A SEALED ENCLOSURE BUT FOR A VENTED ENCLOSURE I WOULD NEED TO GO BIGGER (AS YOU EXPLAINED) ALSO WOULD SAY STUFFING IT 60% WORK WELL FOR DAMPENING ALSO I CANNOT FIND THE XMAX FOR THAT PARTICULAR WOOFER ITS LISTED ON OTHERS BUT NOT ON THAT PARTICULAR ONE......BOX NOTES IS A GOOD PROGRAM

fatpiggy

Yes the size you have selected would work well for a sealed enclosure.The amount and type of stuffing you use will change the tone of the sub.I would recommend 60% but you can use as little as 20% if you want.Yes I noticedd that the Xmax isnt listed I think they call it force or something like that.If you go to the manufacture web site and down load the specifications of that driver it would probally be listed.

Yes Boxnotes is a good program, but you need to understand WinSD to fully understand how the diffrent driver specifications work in your given design.The thing WinSD does is help sort out as to whether the driver you have decided to use would be best suited in a sealed box or a vented box.It helps in choosing the right driver for the application you want to use.

Fatpiggy

Face

Vas ≠ Optimal Ported Cabinet Displacement.

Pig, I'm sure you're aware of that, but you're giving that impression.

fatpiggy

Yeah face I know it means enclosure displacement.I just never ever found out what V.A.S is in English means like volume adjusted size or something, never bothered to find out.Like the rest of driver specs abrevations I never bothered to find out.

Fatpiggy

fatpiggy

Ok I found out what VAS means it means Volume Air Space.Good old goggle how could we live without it.

Fatpiggy

fatpiggy

Some others while Im at it. comes under woofer driver Thiele parameters there is probally heaps more.

Xmax = Excursion Maximum
Vas = The volume of air having the same (acoustic) compliance as the suspension of the woofer.

Qts: The total (sum of electrical + mechanical) "Q" of a woofer.

Qes: The electrical "Q" of the woofer.

Qms: The mechanical "Q: of the woofer.

Fs: The free air resonance of a woofer.

Xmax: The ELECTRICAL LIMIT of the one-way movement of the woofer. This represents how far ELECTRICITY can move the woofer, NOT how far your hand can move it!!

SPL: The amount of sound pressure (measured in decibels) that the woofer will produce given ONE watt of power measured a distance of ONE meter.

And I still get lost with half of these parameters

Fatpiggy

Face

This looks like a beast!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-766#windowcontent

fatpiggy

I like the drivers they look ok, dont like the amp or the crappy enclosure.Its alot of money to break all your windows.I think you would do better to build to seperate subs than have this beast in on corner of your lounge.Imagine the amount of juice this unit would use.Bad enough driving the amps as it is.

fatpiggy

greyford1979

Face wrote: »

This looks like a beast!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-766#windowcontent

Wonder how it sounds comparable to some of the other sub companies out there.

fatpiggy

Hey Greyford,
Hows the sub going, I dont think you would hear that dayton sub as much as feel it.I reckon" it would make your teeth rattle, your eye balls shake and your bones shimmy if it anything like the reviews the other large dayton subs have.I still think your sub box it much better looking than that ugly grey box they have knocked up.They could have at least given it square edges or something.Looks really bad I wouldnt have that dayton sub in my lounge not with out a full rebuild.

Fatpiggy

greyford1979

Yeah I'm not diggin the look of the box much either but wouldn't mind to have a listen to see what it sounds like compared to the Dayton 15 I built. As for mine, I have the top wet sanded, just have to go through the rubbing and polish stages. Then I can finally add the spikes to the bottom and install the sub and amp and will be ready to fire it up:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

fatpiggy

Greyford,
A 15 inch Dayton would have some grunt.Why did you get rid of it, was it too big, did you scare the missus with it...heheh.

Yeah cut and polishing not much fun been there done that.Its alot easier if you have one of them electric buffs, alot quicker too.Using wet and dry paper is slow going.

I bet you will be gald once your subs finished. Im along way from finishing my boxes but its nowhere as work instensive as your build as my project is just a rebuild.I thought about spraying the box with car paint, acrylic but figured it would be alot quicker and easier to get it done at the local car paint shop in 2 pak.Its more expensive but no mess and no polishing.The finish will be better than I could ever do.My spray painting leaves alot to be desired.

I re did my sub in vinyl its a fairly average job.Im happy with the vinyl on my sub but I wont do vinyl in the future it looks cheap and nasty.So all my future builds will be in 2 pak paint , metal trim and wood trim.Looks more professional.

I suppose if your good with paint you can get excellent results me, Im hopeless.



Fat piggy

greyford1979

Well I had it for about 6 months and started making plans with my friend to build him a sub. So I decided I was gonna build a new one for myself. I'm selling the Dayton to someone from the forum, I think Have to make room for the new 15:biggrin: Wish I could keep it, as well as the the 10s I'm also getting rid of lol. Hmmmm, wonder what it would sound like if I powered up all 4 at the same time:eek::biggrin::cool: 1 Dayton 15, 1 RE 15, and 2 Infinity Kappa 10s. I go through a lot of subs lol, both home and car stereo gear. This RE will be a keeper for a while, I think.

fatpiggy

Greyford,Man you really got the bug havnt you.Great to see someone else that likes to build boxes for fun.It does get expensive dosnt it.I have wasted so much cash on my projects its crazy.But I suppose it keeps me off the drink...heheh

So you think this new sub will be the one hey.I bet you will want some new
beast in a few months down the track. hehehe I have seen some guys get really crazy like 4 huge 20" woofers mounted in a box up in the roof space that then directs the sound down a few large vents into the living space. 5000watt amps real crazy stuff.

Me Im small time, just a couple of nice speakers for me nothing fancy.Good Sound stuff is so expensive here in Australia so if you want quality at an afforable price you have build your own.Or buy hand me downs and fix them up..


Have you built any floor standing speakers yet, or just subs.

Fat piggy

heavy rooster

dont know how to post can u please pass this message on

NEED HELP looking for a SL 2000 tweeter

email theemptyroom@bigpond.com

fatpiggy

Heavy rooster,
You manged to post here ok.Go to the wanted section of Forum and post that your after a SL 2000 tweeter.Then go to the for sale section and see if thier is anyone selling a SL 2000 tweeter, falling that you need to do an Ebay search you might get lucky.

Usually I see SL 2000 tweeters up for sale every now and then.Im not sure if Polk still make them, but it might be worth giving a Polk dealer a call in Australia.You can usally track down bits here it just takes time.

Post in the wanted section someone would have a better idea than me.

Fat piggy

fatpiggy

Heavy Rooster,
Your in Luck a guy is selling an SL 2000 tweeter in the For sale section.you want to be quick or you could miss out.Just post a message to him.

Fat piggy

fatpiggy

My mistake SL 2000 already sold

greyford1979

Almost there:biggrin: 4 times with the rubbing compound, 5 times with the polish, and 2 coats of wax for protection. It's as smooth as glass.Wanted to get some pics directly from the top but the flash reflects too much and without the flash it comes out too dark. But you can see the reflections well in these pics to give you an idea of how the top came out.

fatpiggy

Greyford
I see what you mean very smooth..Allot of hard work hey..Looking Flash..Better than my crappy vinyl..I should of had a go at painting but I dont think I could get the same results.I would have really made a mess..:eek:

Fat Piggy

greyford1979

Well I finished up the sub:biggrin: So far it's sounding real good. Have it spiked to where the enclosure is just slightly off the carpet but it's still shaking the crap out of the house Still have some fine tuning and adjustments to do. It's not far off from the other box but it does seem like the bass is tighter and punchier in this new box. I might remove some of the dampening tho, think it's a little too much. This new sub is definitely wanting some more power tho, can't wait to get a more powerful amp for it! Haven't run this sub much yet either so it's not fully broken in, will only get better with some more time on it. Only tested it with a few songs so far, but no movies yet.

fatpiggy

Greyford,
Looks fantastic,Im so jealous.I really love your paint job.I just went to see about getting 2 pak done on my boxes and they want too much to do the job.My carpenter friend wants to do the boxes all in cedar.I still want to go two tone black and wood.I might have a go at it myself.

How about some pointers.What primer did you use what paint did you use,how many coats of paint, how did you get such a great finish.Did you use car paint acrylic gloss.

Fatpiggy

zarrdoss

Top notch man!

greyford1979

Thanks! Was definitely a lot of work, but was well worth it. Damn that sucks about the cost being too much, hopefully you will be able to get it done the way you want it. Believe it or not, as much as all the diy threads I read all over the net said that you could not get this type of finish from spray cans, I decided what the hell since it was gonna be much cheaper. I didn't want to spend a lot on this box. To have it painted by a pro or to buy it and spray it myself it was still going to cost much more. Biggest key was the prep work. After assembly I sand everything smooth. Then ofc I used filler on all joints and screw holes to get rid of any visible seems. Then one of the most important things with the mdf was sealing it. Then came the primer with light sanding in between coats to keep it nice and smooth. Quite a few coats went on before paint. The satin was the easy part, again with light sanding in between coats for a very smooth finish. The gloss ended up being I think right around 10-15 coats Again I did some light sanding in between coats. Finally I did some wet sanding working my way up from 400 grit sandpaper. Used the rubbing compound 4 times to get the finish back to the glossy look again and that nice smooth finish. After that I was satisfied with the way it looked after 5 coats of polish. And then the 2 coats of wax for some protection. My arm is a little sore now lol. Even tho it's heavy as hell, I stood on top of it in only my socks to get the spikes to go through the carpet. It was so smooth and slippery I almost fell off the top:redface::eek: lol So with some hard work you can have this kind of finish with some cheap spray paint. I honestly didn't think I was going to be able to get such a high gloss finish.

greyford1979

zarrdoss wrote: »

Top notch man!

Thanks! I'm glad I'm finally finished. That is ofc until I start building my friend's end table/sub in the very near future.